GURPS 4th edition

[Lancer]

I was just wondering if GURPS 4th edition renders my 3rd edition collection obsolete. Are the Compendiums, GURPS Bio-tech, Ultra Tech I and II, Robots, Space..etc still compatible? Or do I have to dish those and wait for the 4th edition counterparts? Is GURPS Fantasy 4th edition compatible with 3rd?

[Jediphile]

I'm no expert on 3rd edition GURPS, but it seems to me like they wanted to avoid alienating the existing fanbase at all costs, so most of the old material should still be valid. The Compendii might be outdated, though.

 

Check the FAQ and make sure to check the Ludography also.

[Lancer]

I'm no expert on 3rd edition GURPS, but it seems to me like they wanted to avoid alienating the existing fanbase at all costs, so most of the old material should still be valid. The Compendii might be outdated, though.

 

Check the FAQ and make sure to check the Ludography also.

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How extensive are the lists in the GURPS 4th edition set? Is it ridiculously extensive or will they have to resort to making another Compendium to include missing disadvantages/advantages like in 3rd?

[Jediphile]

How extensive are the lists in the GURPS 4th edition set? Is it ridiculously extensive or will they have to resort to making another Compendium to include missing disadvantages/advantages like in 3rd?

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Very extensive. I do believe including all the relevant material from the compendii in the core books was one motivation behind the 4th edition (in fact, they say so in the introduction...). To give you an estimate, the first book, "Characters", is 330+ pages long and is almost exclusively about character creation with Advantages from p.32-118, Disadvantages p.119-166, and Skills p.167-232.

 

So the compendii should be completely obsolete if you get the "Characters" book.

[Lancer]

How extensive are the lists in the GURPS 4th edition set? Is it ridiculously extensive or will they have to resort to making another Compendium to include missing disadvantages/advantages like in 3rd?

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Very extensive. I do believe including all the relevant material from the compendii in the core books was one motivation behind the 4th edition (in fact, they say so in the introduction...). To give you an estimate, the first book, "Characters", is 330+ pages long and is almost exclusively about character creation with Advantages from p.32-118, Disadvantages p.119-166, and Skills p.167-232.

 

So the compendii should be completely obsolete if you get the "Characters" book.

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Wow... That is indeed extensive.. Looks like I will be getting them then

[Lancer]

What I woud like to see is a GURPS Cyberpunk sourcebook for the 4th edition. I am hoping that is on the agenda.

The old one is nigh impossible to find nowadays.

 

 

Edit: Another one would be a GURPS Post-Apocalypse book. That would be nice.. AFAIK, SJ Games has never produced a general sourecbook based on the post-apocalyptic genre. I think this one would sell.

[Guest Fishboot]

What I woud like to see is a GURPS Cyberpunk sourcebook for the 4th edition. I am hoping that is on the agenda.

The old one is nigh impossible to find nowadays.

 

 

Edit: Another one would be a GURPS Post-Apocalypse book. That would be nice.. AFAIK, SJ Games has never produced a general sourecbook based on the post-apocalyptic genre. I think this one would sell.

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What would a generic post-apocalyptic setting be? As in post-nuclear apocalypse?

 

And yeah, the old Cyberpunk book that had the sticker on it saying, "This book was siezed by the FBI!", was awesome. Unfortunately I lost my copy in a move. I think the mechanical prosthetic system is pretty outdated, though, since a lot of more recent cyberpunk has gone into other physical modifications like nanotech, genetic and organic engineering.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

I still have my copy from when I did a brief excursion into GURPS. Never really liked that system. It was a little TOO generic.

[Lancer]

What would a generic post-apocalyptic setting be? As in post-nuclear apocalypse?

 

I would love to see a generic-post apocalyptic GURPS sourcebook which explores all different ways in which a world can get destroyed.

Be it from nuclear warfare, a plague, an alien invasion, natural disaster...etc. It need not be nuclear in cause though it certainly could be. Basically, I'd like a GURPS book which gives a comprehensive treatment of the genre from top to bottom like SJGames does with all its sourcebooks.

 

They always seem to do a great job doing the research in every sourcebook they put out.. You gotta hand it to them.

[EnderAndrew]

I still have my copy from when I did a brief excursion into GURPS.  Never really liked that system.  It was a little TOO generic.

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Not to mention the rules just aren't good.

[Lancer]

I still have my copy from when I did a brief excursion into GURPS.  Never really liked that system.  It was a little TOO generic.

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Not to mention the rules just aren't good.

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The character creation rules are superb. I agree that combat is unnecessarily cumbersome, but then again, I don't really play GURPS. Because of the painstaking research they put into all their products, their sourcebooks are among the best sources of inspiration in the industry. I use their sourcebooks and skill/disadvantage/advantage lists as inspiration for other, better games.

[EnderAndrew]

The character creation rules are pretty good, but I don't feel the 4 attributes really properly reflect a character. The system is all skills and no real attributes.

[Jediphile]

The character creation rules are pretty good, but I don't feel the 4 attributes really properly reflect a character.  The system is all skills and no real attributes.

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Yeah, that's my main problem with GURPS 4th edition too...

 

Still, it's minor next to the problems of many other RPG systems.

 

If you hate class-based and don't like GURPS as skill-based, then what do you prefer?

[EnderAndrew]

I really like D6, WoD (including Exalted and Abberant), L5R, etc.

 

Earthdawn and Shadowrun aren't bad.

[Lancer]

The character creation rules are pretty good, but I don't feel the 4 attributes really properly reflect a character.  The system is all skills and no real attributes.

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Many of the skills (and the tons of disadvantages/advantages) form the function of having more attributes.

 

There is no real reason to have tons of attributes and subabilities if the game mechanics makes due without them.

[Lancer]

@ Jediphile

 

My favorite skill-based system to date is the one in SLA Industries. The game mechanics are *SIMPLE* yet very fluid and detailed... gameplay is quick. Basic mechanic involves rolling 2d10+ skill ranks vs. target number.. 11+ is success while 21 and above is a critical success. that's literally is it.

 

No more silly rolling tons of dice, counting successes and subtracting failures.

 

SLA has a very good skill, disadvantage, advantage system, has a great phase combat system and the setting is just pure gaming bliss. I imagine that the core concepts can be easily translatable to any game.

 

It is one of the skill-based systems that least sucks. Highly Recommended.

[Jediphile]

@ Jediphile

 

My favorite skill-based system up to date is the one in SLA Industries. The game mechanics are *SIMPLE* yet very fluid and detailed... gameplay is quick. Basic mechanic involves rolling 2d10+ skill ranks vs. target number..  11+ is sucess while 21 and above is a critical success. that's literally is it.

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Hmm, actually sounds rather a lot like the mechanic I had in mind for my own system... And I didn't even know SLA Industries. Great minds think alike, I guess " :cool:

[Lancer]

Hmm, actually sounds rather a lot like the mechanic I had in mind for my own system... And I didn't even know SLA Industries. Great minds think alike, I guess    "  :cool:

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haha Although, I am still backwards when it comes to class-based systems. *shrugs*

 

I imagine that the SLA Industries core book is still around. It has a dark hardcover with a pic of Halloween Jack on the front. Hard to miss. The core mechanics are superb and (like I said in an earlier thread) combining the core mechanics of SLA Industries with the extensive skill list of GURPS would yield a game that would literally shake the heavens themselves.

 

If nothing else, SLA would be a great source of inspiration for your own home-brew game.

[Loof]

@ Jediphile

 

My favorite skill-based system up to date is the one in SLA Industries. The game mechanics are *SIMPLE* yet very fluid and detailed... gameplay is quick. Basic mechanic involves rolling 2d10+ skill ranks vs. target number..  11+ is success while 21 and above is a critical success. that's literally is it.

 

No more silly rolling tons of dice, counting successes and subtracting failures.

 

SLA has a very good skill, disadvantage, advantage system, has a great phase combat system and the setting is just pure gaming bliss. I imagine that the core concepts can be easily translatable to any game.

 

It is one of the skill-based systems that least sucks. Highly Recommended. 

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Hmm sounds like a VERY low standard target number with a random range of 2-20 and an average of 11 from just the dice. How high are stat modifyers on average?

 

Altho the basic system sounds alot like my favorite, which is a homebrewed cyberpunk 2020 system where i have stats from 1-10 + skill from 0-20 + 2d6 vs difficulty number (normal difficulty somehere between 20 and 25). I also change the stat and skill set from setting to setting but i have found that the basic mechanic can be used for most types of games (although I havent played that many with it I have done some system testing for sevreal different settings).

[Lancer]

Hmm sounds like a VERY low standard target number with a random range of 2-20 and an average of 11 from just the dice. How high are stat modifyers on average?

 

Individual combat modifiers usually range from about -1 to -5 depending on typical things like lighting, distance, proficiency in currently armed weapon...etc. There are *so*many modifiers in SLA, that this is not really a problem in the system, IMHO. The wound system in SLA is particularly cruel in that every time you get hit, you receive a wound and a -1 modifier to attack. So, if you get hit 5 times in one round, that means 5 wounds and a -5 to attack modifer the next round (not including other modifiers!). After stacking, is quite possible to get modifiers well over -10 in the system. In contrast the highest possible rank in a skill is 10.

A critical success (over 20) in combat just means a bonus to damage for every point over 20.

 

Alternatively, Some people admittedly have preferred to raise the target number for success from 11 to say 15.

 

Speaking of wound systems... The wound system here is also quite lethal in that the more wounds the character has, the faster the rate his remaining hit points are lost. Which translates to if these wounds are not treated soon, the PC eventually dies.

 

Altho the basic system sounds alot like my favorite, which is a homebrewed cyberpunk 2020 system where i have stats from 1-10 + skill from 0-20 + 2d6 vs difficulty number (normal difficulty somehere between 20 and 25). I also change  the stat and skill set from setting to setting but i have found that the basic mechanic can be used for most types of games (although I havent played that many with it I have done some system testing for sevreal different settings).

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Yes, SLA's mechanics do rock!

 

It is very interesting to see that many people (myself included) seem to prefer the "rolling the few dice vs. a target number" mechanics instead of rolling many dice and counting successes and failures.

[Jediphile]

It is very interesting to see that many people (myself included) seem to prefer the "rolling vs. a target number" mechanics instead of counting successes and failures.

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It's just a simpler mechanic and so more convenient. I might embrace the "roll and count" mechanic of WoD and similar if I saw any real point to it, but the thing is that I don't - there is no need for a game mechanic to be complex beyond giving the appearance of being "advanced".

 

To me it's just like a game that insists it must be called cartography and arachnophobia when "map making" and "fear of spiders" or "Phobia: Spiders" are just as descriptive and more convenient.

[Lancer]

It's just a simpler mechanic and so more convenient. I might embrace the "roll and count" mechanic of WoD and similar if I saw any real point to it, but the thing is that I don't - there is no need for a game mechanic to be complex beyond giving the appearance of being "advanced".

 

I know what you mean.. ick.. Shadowrun.

 

 

To me it's just like a game that insists it must be called cartography and arachnophobia when "map making" and "fear of spiders" or "Phobia: Spiders" are just as descriptive and more convenient.

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I have wondered why some skill-based games use what is an unnecessarily complex mechanic? Is it a desperate attempt at trying to be "different" or could it just be reflective of a fear that change might alienate a fan base used to the cumbersome mechanics (which also sounds applicable to 3e)?

[Jediphile]

I have wondered why some skill-based games use what is an unnecessarily complex mechanic? Is it a desperate attempt at trying to be "different" or could it just be reflective of a fear that change might alienate a fan base used to the cumbersome mechanics (which also sounds applicable to 3e)?

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Some of them doubtlessly do out of some misguided elistist and arrogant intent to be "sophisticated", but there could also be legal reasons. After all, all RPG systems try to emulate aspects of reality in a compelling way, and since reality is pretty fixed, that means they'll all be similar. However, if one game is exactly like another, it will probably lead to legal battles - just look what TSR did to Gygax's Dangerous Journeys... "

[Magena]

I haven't looked into the new version, but with most other systems, they new system is just different enough to not really work still. - spells and stuff often do, but the classes and levels tend to change.

 

I guess it depends on who you are playing with and if they all want to shell out the money themselves.

[EnderAndrew]

I think combat in the D6 system to be quite simple. L5R is simple all around, very quick and quite lethal. I rather like it.