Kotor 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[EnderAndrew]

I don't think debating the merit of going in a certain direction should merit pruning.

 

Flaming the person for a suggestion is another story, and I feel I've stayed left of that.

[Weiser_Cain]

You can help the Jedi or the Sith(don't make me whip out Han Solo again). There have been two wars in recent memory and the number of Jedi and Sith running around should be pretty damn low, maybe as low as the OT. You could almost count the force sensitives in that on one hand and it was a pretty good story about Sith and Jedi where you care about more than just the super powered guys and everybody mattered.

[EnderAndrew]

I don't think most players want to play second banana in an RPG.

[Weiser_Cain]

It all depends on how it's written. I did post this earlier.

...write the game so that the main character need not be a Jedi, and can[you could] play through the game as say, a Tech Specialist and have the game feel right and satisfying.

[EnderAndrew]

Ultimately, if the plot is about Jedi and Sith, and you are neither, then it's pretty hard to be the focal point of the story.

 

You keep mentioning Han Solo, who is not the focal point of the Star Wars saga. He is a cool character, but a second banana. In single player RPGs, people usually want to play the focal point of the story.

[Weiser_Cain]

Just because you can't personally confront the sithlords yourself doesn't mean you wouldn't be the focus of the game(as the camera would follow you around) and remember I never said to get rid of the option of being a juggernaut I said give more options to the player(never a bad thing IMO). If you want to be mace windu that's fine, but if I get what I want it you could play the game using any class you want and the game would adapt by not giving you dragon slayer quests. Make it a RPG and not a hack and slash with stats.

Now stop arguing with me and post your own ideas, they probably won't do anything I want anyway.

[Darth_Schmarth]

Just a wee reminder, though some members may feel the need to post in a cynical and nonconstructive manner, I would remind YOU that posting without such intent would awaken the BIG Green ... Thread Pruned ... please post with the intent of assisting in the ongoing discussion.

 

Respectfully,

 

Fionavar

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're not wrong there, but if the odd slip off topic isn't allowed the forum will not last long. I can see how this thread is a particular darling, however, and I sincerely apologise for my recklessly conceived spam.

 

I don't think debating the merit of going in a certain direction should merit pruning.

 

Flaming the person for a suggestion is another story, and I feel I've stayed left of that.

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Seconded.

[Jediphile]

Just because you can't personally confront the sithlords yourself doesn't mean you wouldn't be the focus of the game(as the camera would follow you around) and remember I never said to get rid of the option of being a juggernaut I said give more options to the player(never a bad thing IMO). If you want to be mace windu that's fine, but if I get what I want it you could play the game using any class you want and the game would adapt by not giving you dragon slayer quests. Make it a RPG and not a hack and slash with stats.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Only problem is that a game like you suggest would be all but impossible for the devs to design plotwise. What are they going to build the story on, if they cannot assume the main character to be a jedi or sith? I know this may seem forced, and probably was in the previous games, but then most CRPGs tend to be fairly linear. It's a case of choosing the main character to be very fixed and then use what you've definitely established to build a story on that is tied very closely and personally to that character, or to write a very generic story, where the NPCs carry the plot forward. I tend to go with the former, and KotOR3 is likely to do the same, since the previous games did.

 

Also a few other points:

 

1. The game is called "Knights of the Old Republic" - that indicates jedi knights. There is no question that it's about the conflict between jedi and sith. What game doesn't put its main character right in the middle of that conflict?

 

2. If you're not going to be a jedi, then how will the light side/dark side choice have any meaning? The choice between the two has been the one deciding factor for how each game has played out so far (if we overlook the cut content of KotOR2), and you want to cut that out? I couldn't disagree more.

[EnderAndrew]

Agreed. I'm not trying to pick on Weiser here. But if the devs were to read these comments (if Obsidian gets the rights to make KOTOR:3) I want this thread to represent both sides. If Weiser speaks up, and I don't, then the devs might assume we all want to see non-Jedi PCs in KOTOR:3.

 

I think it will weaken the storyline. As a general rule, with a more specific character concept in mind, the easier it is for the dev team to write a plotline. The more variables in play, the harder it is to nail down the story.

[Archmonarch]

Sort of a medium between the two sides is a normal character who becomes a Jedi/Sith at some point early in the game. I think that would be doable plotwise as only a few non-essential quests and a few other things might change between the initial classes. There really arent that many base classes anyway: Fringer, Noble, Scoundrel, Scout, Soldier, Tech Specialist, and Force Adept, leaving out the Jedi of course. This would allow us to try various styles of play before taking up the restricted mantle of Jedi/Sith. Even those who wanted to start as a force user could choose the Force Adept.

 

Another interesting thought is perhaps using some of the class variants throughout the SW PnP books, combinations of 2 classes to form one with some strengths of both, though never as accomplished as the specialist. I doubt this would happen, but the possibilities for combination are practically endless. Perhaps an algorithm could form a hybrid of classes using a preprogrammed variant as a base, or following certain rules found within the PnP system.

 

The main plot would remain constant throughout the different variables, only the trappings would differ. Maybe a few puzzles or such later in the game would depend upon a skill you had from your initial class, an option for each one. It would require some more work, but might produce more replayability and a better game in the end.

 

After all, I know, after having tried to replay a number of games in the past few months, that in many cases I did not want to replay the beginnings. To use the KoToRs as examples, I didnt want to play Taris (particularly the Undercity and Sewers) or the Damaged Ebon Hawk/Peragus Station again. Not that I didnt enjoy them the first time, but I began to find them tedious and wanted to speed into the exciting bits. If the beginnings could differ enough to provide a different intro, it might cause players to continue through different arrangements without losing interest.

[EnderAndrew]

Honestly, I don't know how certain people enjoy playing KOTOR or KOTOR:2 10 times over again, but if they enjoy it, more power to them.

[alanschu]

Honestly, I don't know how certain people enjoy playing KOTOR or KOTOR:2 10 times over again, but if they enjoy it, more power to them.

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:">

 

 

It's much like reading a book I enjoy again.

 

I do play through it in different ways and with different progressions and whatnot. 10 times is a bit extreme. I think 4 for KOTOR: the standard playthrough, where I "roleplay" the whole way; All the way LS; All the way DS; All the way LS Consular, powergaming like mad to see how strong of a Jedi I could be. Went through entire game at level 2 until Dantooine, and immediately levelled up like mad.

 

Had close to 500 Force Points if I recall

[EnderAndrew]

My first playthrough I went through as level 2 until I became a Jedi. the only tough part of the game was beating Bendak Starkiller at level 2.

[alanschu]

I didn't bother with Bendak, since at level 2 it'd be a touch to difficult IMO.

 

Too aggravating anyways. I only did 2 or 3 of those fights IIRC.

[EnderAndrew]

I cheated technically with Bendak. I'd fight one round of combat, and then save. If the round of combat went poorly, I'd reload.

 

It was cheesy, but I defeated him at level 2.

[Archmonarch]

I did it the old fashioned way, with lots of grenades and some luck.

[Jediphile]

Honestly, I don't know how certain people enjoy playing KOTOR or KOTOR:2 10 times over again, but if they enjoy it, more power to them.

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Yeah, KotOR1 twice was it for me - one as lightsider, one as darksider. They were both as males, however, and I did begin a third game as female, but I didn't finish, since it just wasn't interesting enough...

 

And KotOR2 I only finished once as a lightsider male. The dark side beckons, yes, but I felt like a pig playing dark side in KotOR1 - there's just neither challenge nor satisfaction in behaving like a jerk to everyone you meet

[alanschu]

I like playing as a LS Jedi that "falls" when I play my Darkside characters. Seems more real than just being a jerk the whole game.

[alanschu]

I did it the old fashioned way, with lots of grenades and some luck.

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Luck? No kidding. At level 2???

 

Nice.

 

 

The luck of a h4x0r

[Jediphile]

I cheated technically with Bendak.  I'd fight one round of combat, and then save.  If the round of combat went poorly, I'd reload.

 

It was cheesy, but I defeated him at level 2.

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Wow! Still pretty nice. Btw, I wouldn't call that cheating per se, since the game allows it.

 

Personally I had a hard time defeating him even with loads of grenades as a level 5 scout!

[Archmonarch]

I did it the old fashioned way, with lots of grenades and some luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Luck? No kidding. At level 2???

 

Nice.

 

 

The luck of a h4x0r

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I was playing on an unmodded Xbox.

[EnderAndrew]

I was also proud that I took down the Rancor with pure combat. I snuck up close in solo mode with Misson and laid down a bunch of mines. Then I shot at him with Revan to get his attention. As he ran towards me, I ran back into the hallway where he couldn't get to me, and allowed the mines to do the bulk of the work. After a while, he returned to the far side of the room, and then some blaster fire finished him off.

 

I think it was more rewarding that using the pheromones to kill him.

 

I was a bit disappointed they wouldn't let me try to fight the Krayt Dragon.

[Jediphile]

Sort of a medium between the two sides is a normal character who becomes a Jedi/Sith at some point early in the game. I think that would be doable plotwise as only a few non-essential quests and a few other things might change between the initial classes. There really arent that many base classes anyway: Fringer, Noble, Scoundrel, Scout, Soldier, Tech Specialist, and Force Adept, leaving out the Jedi of course. This would allow us to try various styles of play before taking up the restricted mantle of Jedi/Sith. Even those who wanted to start as a force user could choose the Force Adept.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To be perfectly honest, I want to play a jedi with full powers all the way through in KotOR3 - I hated that they let the Exile begin as a jedi, but didn't give him the force powers the rules give him from the beginning :angry:

[Archmonarch]

Notice the word medium. This implies compromise. While I understand your pov, others desire different things. I was just suggesting a midpoint between the two.

[EnderAndrew]

It didn't take long for the Exile to have Force powers.

 

I imagine in KOTOR:3 you'll get Force Powers and a lightsaber early on.