Explosion in London this morning

[SteveThaiBinh]

It looks like there were only four devices, three on underground trains and one on a bus. The reason there were initial reports of more was because bombs were exploding on trains between stations, so people were leaving the train and walking in either direction, emerging from different stations.

 

The figure of 33 fatalities doesn't include the bus bombing yet, so it's certain to rise.

[metadigital]

No I'm an atheist. But I think your past actions started organizations like Al Qeda so stop crying and take responsibility.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Attempting to make political capital out of a tragedy displays you as a callous barbarian, no better than the sub-humans who thought that killing random innocent people irrespective of age, gender, class, religion or race, was an acceptable way to make a political point.

[Darkside]

Just want to point out that Bin Laden and his followers are not Muslims. In fact, they represent the exact opposite of the Islam. It truly pains my heart that those hypocrites would proclaim to be followers of Mohammed, who in his entire lifetime harbored Jews and Christians in his territory and had only defended them against pagans in his military career.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed. At school I know quite a few people that hate Islam and wish death upon all Muslims. I've tried to explain to them exactly what you just said, but they only know the hatred and distrust their parents have taught them, who in turn learned it from the media. I think half the problem is that the media only reports the stories about violent extremists. People don't realize that most true Muslims are as much against terrorism as the rest of us.

 

I'll never forget one day in Social Studies, we were studying the Middle East and Islam. I can't remember the discussion that led up to it, but one girl stood up and said, "We should just bomb them all and get it over with. They'd do the same thing to us!" The worst part is that most of the class cheered her on.

 

I suppose fear and hatred knows no reason.

[SteveThaiBinh]

...one girl stood up and said, "We should just bomb them all and get it over with.  They'd do the same thing to us!"  The worst part is that most of the class cheered her on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And are these kids all evil would-be terrorists? Of course not. They're just angry, scared and ill-informed - exactly the same as the Palestinians who cheered when they heard the news of the September 11 attacks.

 

Ken Livingstone (the Mayor) gave a really good speech from Singapore about how people from all over the world will continue to come to London and live together. It's great how Londoners are already pulling together to get through this.

[julianw]

Hate crime against Muslims is just another victory for the terroists.

 

[EDIT] A few Muslims are murdered after 9/11 in U.S. The ignorance of that little girl and every one who cheered her is not that harmless.

[Atreides]

Condolenses to the victims (terrorists != "victims" btw).

 

It's tough when an attacks gets through despite the precautious taken. That's one too many. It's not easy juggling caution levels. On one hand too much is expensive (labour and infrastructure etc) and errodes privacy. When nothing happens (thankfully) there'll be people saying it's a fearmongering tactic taking advantage of peoples' fear to consolidate power. When **** slips through, people say the authorities weren't vigilant enough and it's their fault too.

[Volourn]

"who in turn learned it from the media."

 

What media is this? Nowhere have I read a serious or even semi serious news media that says or even implies that all Muslims are evil and deserve death. Not one. So, no, don't blame this stupid nonsense on the media.

[julianw]

"who in turn learned it from the media."

 

What media is this? Nowhere have I read a serious or even semi serious news media that says or even implies that all Muslims are evil and deserve death. Not one. So, no, don't blame this stupid nonsense on the media.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well. The media blasts us with people in the Middle East dancing with AKs all day. You think that does not influence any one's view on the Muslims? Has the media ever introduced Muslims' true beliefs to us?

[metadigital]

Agreed.  At school I know quite a few people that hate Islam and wish death upon all Muslims.  I've tried to explain to them exactly what you just said, but they only know the hatred and distrust their parents have taught them, who in turn learned it from the media.  I think half the problem is that the media only reports the stories about violent extremists.  People don't realize that most true Muslims are as much against terrorism as the rest of us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Us" doesn't include any extremists. There are plenty who think that their particular brand of zealotry is okay, in a self-defence modus operandi, and terrorism is okay as a modus agendi. E.g. some animal rights and pro-life (sic) activists, ho think it is fine to threaten or even kill people in industries they do not like, or even supporting the businesses.

I'll never forget one day in Social Studies, we were studying the Middle East and Islam.  I can't remember the discussion that led up to it, but one girl stood up and said, "We should just bomb them all and get it over with.  They'd do the same thing to us!"  The worst part is that most of the class cheered her on.

 

I suppose fear and hatred knows no reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... And, ironically, they are becoming the very thing they fear and hate. Sadly, the irony is wasted on them.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well. The media blasts us with people in the Middle East dancing with AKs all day. You think that does not influence any one's view on the Muslims? Has the media ever introduced Muslims's true beliefs to us?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well thats because they do. The media does for the most part report what happens so if its happening they should report it. Otherwise that in censorship (and your only allowed to do that where the news piece would otherwise breach the rules like showing bits of people after a bomb or close ups of dead soldiers).

[Darkside]

...one girl stood up and said, "We should just bomb them all and get it over with.  They'd do the same thing to us!"  The worst part is that most of the class cheered her on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And are these kids all evil would-be terrorists? Of course not. They're just angry, scared and ill-informed - exactly the same as the Palestinians who cheered when they heard the news of the September 11 attacks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never said they were. Of course they're just scared, my point was that they are ill-informed. But there are others who act on their fears as julianw said.

 

I think half the problem is that the media only reports the stories about violent extremists.  People don't realize that most true Muslims are as much against terrorism as the rest of us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

All I meant was that fear causes people stop thinking rationally and instead act on instinct. This causes suspicion and unrest, and is ultimately what the terrorists wanted in the first place.

 

But I don't want to start a debate over this when there are more important things at hand. Did Ender's wife ever get ahold of her family?

[Volourn]

"Has the media ever introduced Muslims' true beliefs to us?"

 

Yes, they do. All the time. The media has stories of actual Muslims just trying to live thier lives in peace. They have Muslims come out and flatly state that AQ doesn't represent them or their religion in any form.

 

Yes, they show the gun toting, bloodthirsty 'Muslims'; but they also show the otherside.

 

They do that with other religions too. They show the good side of Christianity that is about helping helping others, love and all the warm fuzzy stuff. But, they also show the darkside of Christianity where those who use THAT religion for their own nefarious side.

 

The media does NOT, once again, paint a picture where ALL Muslims are evil hatemongers who want all the White people and Westerners dead. It's just wrong to lay some people's hate on the media.

 

I would say that the number of people in the Western world who truly hate all Muslims is a very, very, very small number.

[metadigital]

"who in turn learned it from the media."

 

What media is this? Nowhere have I read a serious or even semi serious news media that says or even implies that all Muslims are evil and deserve death. Not one. So, no, don't blame this stupid nonsense on the media.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well. The media blasts us with people in the Middle East dancing with AKs all day. You think that does not influence any one's view on the Muslims? Has the media ever introduced Muslims' true beliefs to us?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, there have been a number of initiatives in Britain, for example. Recently there was a series on Sharia law, hosted by the senior Imams and commentators (like a high profile British journalist who has converted to Islam); strangely enough, Muslims are small "c" conservatives, who respect their neighbours (of all hue and belief), and whom seek fairness in all dealings. ( /sarcasm)

[SteveThaiBinh]

I never said they were.  Of course they're just scared, my point was that they are ill-informed.  But there are others who act on their fears as julianw said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I didn't mean to imply that you were saying that - I'm sorry you thought I was.

 

I think it's difficult for Americans to have any understanding or sympathy for why Palestinians reacted like that, and I was trying to make the connection. There's not a great deal of difference between that and your classroom - or the callers to US talk radio who wanted to 'nuke Baghdad' - killing who knows how many civilians. However, I agree with julianw, too. While most of these kids will not act out their hatred, there may be a minority who do.

[julianw]

Yes, they do. All the time. The media has stories of actual Muslims just trying to live thier lives in peace. They have Muslims come out and flatly state that AQ doesn't represent them or their religion in any form.

 

I guess I didn't notice those coverages since those are what I already know.

Still, it wouldn't hurt if the media tries a little harder on balancing its coverage.

[metadigital]

Yes, they do. All the time. The media has stories of actual Muslims just trying to live thier lives in peace. They have Muslims come out and flatly state that AQ doesn't represent them or their religion in any form.

 

I guess I didn't notice those coverages since those are what I already know.

Still, it wouldn't hurt if the media tries a little harder on balancing its coverage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Part of the problem is there is no "Muslim Pope" or "Muslim Archbishop of the UK"; the organisational structure is not as hierarchical as the episcopals.

 

Muslim Imams certainly preach tolerance in the Mosque, it's just the non-Muslims don't hear it ...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Muslim Imams certainly preach tolerance in the Mosque, it's just the non-Muslims don't hear it ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats because it's much easier to see people preaching hate on the streets.

 

It's not like visiting any religious service is a particularly welcoming experience unless your one of the flock (wow is that ever an appropriate term).

[Darth Launch]

Muslim Imams certainly preach tolerance in the Mosque, it's just the non-Muslims don't hear it ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats because it's much easier to see people preaching hate on the streets.

 

It's not like visiting any religious service is a particularly welcoming experience unless your one of the flock (wow is that ever an appropriate term).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have you ever tried?

[Azarkon]

A thread like this cannot be anything but a vehicle for political discussions. Seriously. Politics is debateable; tragedy and people dying are not. There is no need to make a thread for tragedy, unless you are willing to discuss the basis behind it, because the only thing we can do other than discuss politics in such a thread is to offer our condolences.

 

Unsurprisingly, it's difficult for me to offer condolences through a message board about games. It feels absurd, and I'd rather do it over the phone or in person.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Have you ever tried?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes I speak from personal experience. Of course I dont claim its universal or anything perhaps I just picked unfriendly places to visit.

[Darth Launch]

Fair enough.

 

Perhaps a common mistake is not having an open mind, although I'm in no way implying that that was the case with you

 

Of all the places of worship I've visited (and trust me I've travelled a lot so I've been to a lot) I've not once been turned away for wanting to understand other religions more

 

DL

[Darkside]

I never said they were.  Of course they're just scared, my point was that they are ill-informed.  But there are others who act on their fears as julianw said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I didn't mean to imply that you were saying that - I'm sorry you thought I was.

 

I think it's difficult for Americans to have any understanding or sympathy for why Palestinians reacted like that, and I was trying to make the connection. There's not a great deal of difference between that and your classroom - or the callers to US talk radio who wanted to 'nuke Baghdad' - killing who knows how many civilians. However, I agree with julianw, too. While most of these kids will not act out their hatred, there may be a minority who do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm sorry, I misunderstood your point at first. Unfortunately you are right.

 

 

I'm watching CNN right now. At least 33 deaths and counting...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Fair enough.

 

Perhaps a common mistake is not having an open mind, although I'm in no way implying that that was the case with you 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually I was refering to in this country rather than abroad.Abroad I've only visited a Budist temple but that was actually a good experience.

 

In this country I've generally gone as a guest of someone. And they see that as me being some sort of potential convert I guess.It's not so much being turned away as being trapped in a room with a salesman trying to sell you something.

[metadigital]

Fair enough.

Perhaps a common mistake is not having an open mind, although I'm in no way implying that that was the case with you 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I was refering to in this country rather than abroad.Abroad I've only visited a Budist temple but that was actually a good experience.

 

In this country I've generally gone as a guest of someone. And they see that as me being some sort of potential convert I guess.It's not so much being turned away as being trapped in a room with a salesman trying to sell you something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, sounds as bad as Christian fundamentalist evangelism ...

[Calax]

I was unaware that allah was a bloodthirsty creator...