Lord of Betrayal...

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

Malak is a big girl.He's too dumb to be scary.He could have been one of the bad guys in thundercats...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

DO NOT INSULT THE THUNDERCATS!

 

Grrr..

[Volourn]

If Malak is dumb; then Kreia must be retarded. Afterall, she was 'pretending' to be your 'ally' yet had 'BIG BAD BOSS' printed on her robe. At least Malak was SUPPOSED to be the obvious main villain in KOTOR.

[Darth Vader]

Malak is a big girl.He's too dumb to be scary.He could have been one of the bad guys in thundercats...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

DO NOT INSULT THE THUNDERCATS!

 

Grrr..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ey :D ...don't get me wrong,Thundercats rules.

But those bad guys...dumb beyond dumb

And I say it again...malak is anything but scary.his way of thinking is basic and predictable and he is very....very camp.

That doesn't make him a bad villain...Just a stupid one.

nothing wrong with stupid villains...

[metadigital]

Kreia is many things; but she isn't crazy. She knows exactly what she is doing, and does so willfully. It's not like she she doens't mean to hurt the Exile or doens't understand why she does so. She's not some drunk who can't control their temper when under the influence. She is control. She is just plain hateful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I know plenty (well several, thankfully: but that is plenty!) of intelligent people with emotional problems (emotionally retarded, emotional IQ of a twelve-year old, however you want to call it) -- one is a successful person in his own right, multi-millionaire (he's probably influenced your life) and he is emotionally toxic to those who get within striking distance. He honestly believes he is loveable and charming. Very, very sad. He truly -- and this is very sad on a number of levels -- truly believes that he is a capable, loving person. He is so deluded. (I think in part it is because of his wealth that everone he has related to has always wanted to keep him from becoming an enemy, so that he never hears what people really think of him.)

My point is that it is very possible that Kreia thinks she is a loveable person. That the Exile can love her because the Exile will understand what Kreia is doing and why.

Ey :D ...don't get me wrong,Thundercats rules.

But those bad guys...dumb beyond dumb

And I say it again...malak is anything but scary.his way of thinking is basic and predictable and he is very....very camp.

That doesn't make him a bad villain...Just a stupid one.

nothing wrong with stupid villains...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing wrong with camp villains: Ming the Merciless is a cool villain!

[kid]

If Malak is dumb; then Kreia must be retarded. Afterall, she was 'pretending' to be your 'ally' yet had 'BIG BAD BOSS' printed on her robe. At least Malak was SUPPOSED to be the obvious main villain in KOTOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, because, with your incredible powers of foresight, you could tell immediately Kreia would be a boss, EVEN THOUGH even Obsidian was not sure she would be.

 

Go figure.

[Volourn]

"Go figure."

 

Yeha, go figure. I also knew some Obsidian fnaboy peon would post what you did. Look at my awesome forsight. Or is that foreskin?

 

R00fles!

[kid]

"Go figure."

 

Yeha, go figure. I also knew some Obsidian fnaboy peon would post what you did. Look at my awesome forsight. Or is that foreskin?

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then let me be the first to congratulate on being super genius, considering you still haven't answered the question how you knew, when OE did not. Perhaps you just can't accept that such a simple observation would destroy your entire moronic tirade?

 

<awaiting more scathing and sudorific replies>

 

PS:

Posts: 6,478

Posts: 8

 

I'll let you figure that one out.

[Cloris]

Kreia is many things; but she isn't crazy. She knows exactly what she is doing, and does so willfully. It's not like she she doens't mean to hurt the Exile or doens't understand why she does so. She's not some drunk who can't control their temper when under the influence. She is control. She is just plain hateful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree -- or at least she's 'crazy like a fox.' But I don't think she's entirely hateful. She doesn't just set the Exile up to destroy her enemies -- Kreia essentially preps the Exile to save the galaxy, which incluedes killing Kreia. Thoughts?

 

Kreia does believe the Exile is the Last of the (true) Jedi (whether or not they are active members of the order), I think, or at very least the last Jedi worth a damn. Mabye the Jedi Order is like the Mob or like being an alcoholic -- you never really leave, or it never really leaves you. *shrug*

 

On a different note, I also think that she does love the exile, in her own way, just as Atris, Disciple, and Atton each love the Exile in their own way.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Kriea, but I think she is written with a lot of depth that happens to be more subtle than most of the characters in the SW universe and I think the writers deserve some credit for that.

 

Cloris

[Volourn]

"Perhaps you just can't accept that such a simple observation would destroy your entire moronic tirade?"

 

How can one who posts so little; troll so much?

 

 

"considering you still haven't answered the question how you knew"

 

If you couldn't figure it out before the end of the first section that just shows your ineptness. Not mine.

 

 

 

"but I think she is written with a lot of depth that happens to be more subtle"

 

She's neither deep, or subtle. She is obvious, and shallow. She's a good character; but is not that impresisve.

 

The Exile is NOT a Jedi - true or otherwise - unless you make that chocie during the game. And, Kreia above anyone, KNOWS this.

 

Kreia is also 100% hate. She hates everything including and espicially the Exile. Afterall, he has what she cannot have. And, she is jealous. This shows during her little rantings when she FORCEFULLY intrudes into your mind.

[kid]

"If you couldn't figure it out before the end of the first section that just shows your ineptness. Not mine."

 

Considering you didn't even post in the "first section" just shows your delusions. Not mine. And frankly, you were the only person to suggest it.

 

Or did you mean first section, as in "first section of the game"? Regardless, congratulations on both your excellent diction and your ability to not even address the issue. I also love how avid you are to have a civil conversation and state your opinion as fact in the process. I think angsty boys like you are cute

[Cloris]

Regarding Post #59 in this thread:

 

I would be exceptionally grateful if in the middle of a diatribe, you would be clear on which person you are quoting where in your post. I do agree, though, that there seem to be some serious hate and anger management issues contained in this thread, and those of you that enjoy that sort of thing are welcome to them -- it simply isn't the discussion I was hoping to enjoy.

 

 

Cloris

[Musopticon?]

Volourn angsty? Wut?

[sotos]

Well, I know plenty (well several, thankfully: but that is plenty!) of intelligent people with emotional problems (emotionally retarded, emotional IQ of a twelve-year old, however you want to call it) -- one is a successful person in his own right, multi-millionaire (he's probably influenced your life) and he is emotionally toxic to those who get within striking distance. He honestly believes he is loveable and charming. Very, very sad. He truly -- and this is very sad on a number of levels -- truly believes that he is a capable, loving person. He is so deluded. (I think in part it is because of his wealth that everone he has related to has always wanted to keep him from becoming an enemy, so that he never hears what people really think of him.)

My point is that it is very possible that Kreia thinks she is a loveable person. That the Exile can love her because the Exile will understand what Kreia is doing and why.

 

 

Well yes i agree in that too

i know too many people (Especially in Europe and USA) with high self Esteem about what the other think about them and about their looks etc

 

And they are PLENTY !!!

Unfortunately these is a part in the Human Nature and of our times (and becomes worse with the years passing)

 

Humans Thinking of themselves Beautifull, Lovable and special

Men thinking of beeing Brad Pit or Superman and that everyone admires them or women thinking themselves as Top Models and beeing genious like Ainstain and everyone admires them

 

 

The funny part is that even if these persons realise that things are not like that instead of losing their High Self Esteem and become depressed they act more Arrogant next time and they are thinking themselves even better than before

 

I had seen it with my eyes and it is strange, instead of getting depressed they act even more selfish and thinking higher about themselves

 

Well at least that happens to my country and especcialy to women

It's very strange how pathetic and how self-centered human become with time

thinking too much about themselves and acting worse

 

 

But As about the game and Kreia i am not sure that apply

[Musopticon?]

Must not comment...must not comment...nnnghhh

[metadigital]

... The funny part  is that even if these persons realise that things are not like that instead of losing their High Self Esteem and become depressed they act more Arrogant next time and they are thinking themselves even better than before[/b]

 

I had seen it with my eyes and it is strange, instead of getting depressed they act even more selfish and thinking higher about themselves  ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a psychological phenomenon where if ones skills are so far removed from the scale that they don't appear on it, a confident person will assume they are very good at said skill. (Think of people who are tone deaf, but don't know it and insist they are good singers.)

 

I can't for the life of me think what the term is, and I, for once, can't think of how to search for it in an expedient manner. Anyone? FarimirK, you're a psychologist, aren't you?

[Volourn]

"would be exceptionally grateful if in the middle of a diatribe, you would be clear on which person you are quoting where in your post."

 

We don't always get what we want. I would be exceptionally grateful if someone were to hand me 1 mil in cash no questions asked; but ti ain't gonna happen.

[metadigital]

... Kreia is also 100% hate. She hates everything including and espicially the Exile. Afterall, he has what she cannot have. And, she is jealous. This shows during her little rantings when she FORCEFULLY intrudes into your mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm getting the distinct impression you have some strong feelings that, um ... hang on -- you think Kreia hates people, is that right?

 

You know, it is just possible that there is a slim chance that you may in fact be close to what might appear to an outsider as being in the general vicinity of a corrrect evaluation of something closely approximating what we might regard as a verisimilitude to a reality.

[Darth Vader]

Kreia is also 100% hate. She hates everything including and espicially the Exile. Afterall, he has what she cannot have. And, she is jealous. This shows during her little rantings when she FORCEFULLY intrudes into your mind.

 

That is SO missing the point...

Kreia's goal is very interesting....and not driven by hate.her point is that it is pretty much impossible to balance the force therefore it has to be destroyed.

it's the idea that neither an extreme good or an extreme evil is good for the universe.

A bit too metaphysical for some I guess.

[Cloris]

That is SO missing the point...

Kreia's goal is very interesting....and not driven by hate.her point is that it is pretty much impossible to balance the force therefore it has to be destroyed.

it's the idea that neither an extreme good or an extreme evil is good for the universe.

A bit too metaphysical for some I guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thank you, this is more like the discussion that I so oddly look for on a discussion board.

 

I think that perhaps you are right, that perhaps depth is, in part, a function of where one looks to finds it.

 

Character development is why I play games like these, though, rather than simply hacking and slashing my way thourgh a genre. I keep trying to pin Kreia's motivations down without simplifying it into ridiculousness (which is apparently, much easier than I would have thought).

 

If Kreia's sole wish was the destruction of the Force, and that could be accomplished through the murder of the Exile, why doesn't she simply kill her in the cargo bay of the Harbinger (where she says she first found the Exile)? Does she give any indication at all that killing her later would be more effective in achieving the destruction of the Force? If not, then further thought is obviously in order -- though only to those that believe it to be worthy of contemplation in the first place.

 

Cloris

[metadigital]

... If Kreia's sole wish was the destruction of the Force, and that could be accomplished through the murder of the Exile, why doesn't she simply kill her in the cargo bay of the Harbinger (where she says she first found the Exile)? Does she give any indication at all that killing her later would be more effective in achieving the destruction of the Force? If not, then further thought is obviously in order -- though only to those that believe it to be worthy of contemplation in the first place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because

she has to kill the Exile on M5

. But, you point is still valid, because at any time she could

go and commit suicide on M5, as was threatened by Atris as the motivation for the last part of the game -- this would kill the Exile through their bond.

 

 

The answer provided by the game

at the end of the Dantooine confrontation is that Kreia wanted to understand how the Exile survived the separation from the Force.

If this wasn't important, then Kreia could have done the whole endgame straight away.

[FaramirK]

... The funny part  is that even if these persons realise that things are not like that instead of losing their High Self Esteem and become depressed they act more Arrogant next time and they are thinking themselves even better than before[/b]

 

I had seen it with my eyes and it is strange, instead of getting depressed they act even more selfish and thinking higher about themselves  ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a psychological phenomenon where if ones skills are so far removed from the scale that they don't appear on it, a confident person will assume they are very good at said skill. (Think of people who are tone deaf, but don't know it and insist they are good singers.)

 

I can't for the life of me think what the term is, and I, for once, can't think of how to search for it in an expedient manner. Anyone? FarimirK, you're a psychologist, aren't you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe the "Grandiose" subtype of Delusion Disorder? People who suffer from this disorder truly feel that they are of huge importance or highly skilled in a certain area. It is possible Kreia suffered from this...but I am not "hard-core" enough to properly psychologically analysize the fictional characters of a Star Wars RPG.

[Cloris]

Because

she has to kill the Exile on M5

. But, you point is still valid, because at any time she could

go and commit suicide on M5, as was threatened by Atris as the motivation for the last part of the game -- this would kill the Exile through their bond.

 

 

The answer provided by the game

at the end of the Dantooine confrontation is that Kreia wanted to understand how the Exile survived the separation from the Force.

If this wasn't important, then Kreia could have done the whole endgame straight away.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

So, if Kreia could kill herself at Malachor V and accomplish her stated goal of ending the Exile and the Force, perhaps that then lends credibility to the hypothosis that the end of the Exile and the Force aren't her only goals. Understanding is a goal far removed from hate, in my opinion. If she were a bitter creaure bent soley on revenge, why would understanding matter?

 

She states, at the end, that she wondered if you would bother to try to redeem her and is glad if you try to do so -- I see some depth there.

 

 

In truth, only the people that wrote Kreia could really tell us what she would have been thinking. Perhaps she just manipulating, but I think she was preparing the Exile to end the threat to the glaxay and to the Force through the deaths of Scion, Nihilius, and Kreia. As a Sith, maybe she saw the crew as one last set of puppet strings to pull. As a ex-Jedi, maybe she wanted to remember what it was like to do the right thing one last time.

 

In any case, I enjoy the possibilities.

 

Cloris

[metadigital]

So, if Kreia could kill herself at Malachor V and accomplish her stated goal of ending the Exile and the Force, perhaps that then lends credibility to the hypothosis that the end of the Exile and the Force aren't her only goals. Understanding is a goal far removed from hate, in my opinion.  If she were a bitter creaure bent soley on revenge, why would understanding matter?

 

She states, at the end, that she wondered if you would bother to try to redeem her and is glad if you try to do so -- I see some depth there.

 

 

In truth, only the people that wrote Kreia could really tell us what she would have been thinking. Perhaps she just manipulating, but I think she was preparing the Exile to end the threat to the glaxay and to the Force through the deaths of Scion, Nihilius, and Kreia. As a Sith, maybe she saw the crew as one last set of puppet strings to pull.  As a ex-Jedi, maybe she wanted to remember what it was like to do the right thing one last time.

 

In any case, I enjoy the possibilities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still say that the enitre philosophical subtext is lost owing to the lack of top-down direction. All that we get is total philosobabble dressed up as erudite wisdom that doesn't even manage to keep referential integrity between one sentence and the next, of the same characters speech.

 

We are left to pick and choose, because there has been no "direction" applied to the myriad of subtextual plotlets and ontological quodlibets.

 

Whether this is due to the project being rushed, or just plain old negligence and bad management is unknown, unknowable and ultimately as irrelevant as it is disapointing. It's another case of dumbing down to the lowest common denominator (thirteen year olds).