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The exile seems like a doomed character to me


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Now I say this because of the fact that the exile is a hole, a wound in the force.

 

When all the fights are done, when the sith are dead and gone, the exile can either choose to fight for the rest of his/her days or just stop. It doesn't matter how it happens, but it will. The exile may become like Nihilus, but as you saw with Kreia, the hunger of that power came from falling to it. So this path is least likely.

 

If the exile chose not to fight, he/she wouldn't be able to stay, they would have to seek exile again. Why? The exile will continue to make force bonds, and continue to feed on them, whether the exile is fighting or not they will happen. The jedi, when put back together, will cast the exile out again, no person would want that near them if they knew the consequences, and those who did not know would slowly be destroyed by the exile, perhaps become like slaves and puppets.

 

There is no living person who now knows how to heal the exile, maybe Revan but unlikely. When Kreia killed the Masters, the exile's fate seemed finished. For one so concerned about the exile she didn't think about what happens after the sith are gone.

 

I may be wrong, just another thought.

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Now I say this because of the fact that the exile is a hole, a wound in the force.

 

When all the fights are done, when the sith are dead and gone, the exile can either choose to fight for the rest of his/her days or just stop. It doesn't matter how it happens, but it will. The exile may become like Nihilus, but as you saw with Kreia, the hunger of that power came from falling to it. So this path is least likely.

 

If the exile chose not to fight, he/she wouldn't be able to stay, they would have to seek exile again. Why? The exile will continue to make force bonds, and continue to feed on them, whether the exile is fighting or not they will happen. The jedi, when put back together, will cast the exile out again, no person would want that near them if they knew the consequences, and those who did not know would slowly be destroyed by the exile, perhaps become like slaves and puppets.

 

There is no living person who now knows how to heal the exile, maybe Revan but unlikely. When Kreia killed the Masters, the exile's fate seemed finished. For one so concerned about the exile she didn't think about what happens after the sith are gone.

 

I may be wrong, just another thought.

 

My feeling is that she 'healed' him, in a manner of speaking. She showed him how to face his past--the first step--then taught him to see his ability as a tool. She spoke of 'echoes', how tactically he could create them to either nullify or enhance those that already existed in the universe because of war. That was important, so that he didn't inadvertently set off something that would destroy the galaxy. She didn't want that, because if she did, either Sion or Nihilous could have done it.

 

Exile had to be aware of his power, and that's what Kreia did for him, just ever so carefully. Before he met her, he had no idea. She trusts that he will do what he has to do, and she hopes he will help Revan. But either way, the galaxy will not be destroyed by 'an accident.'

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I think she cared more about exile as a means to an end (end of the force) rather than actually caring FOR the exile.

 

Kreia is a typical insane senile women.

 

She just wanted an end in the force, not because she hates jedi, just because she was blamed for the Jedi civil war and wanted to enact revenge on the jedi council.

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Kreia is a typical insane senile women.

 

She just wanted an end in the force, not because she hates jedi, just because she was blamed for the Jedi civil war and wanted to enact revenge on the jedi council.

Are you sure those were Kreia's motivations? I thought she wanted an end to the force because she believed it was causing predestination and removing free will. Where did you get the idea she wanted revenge on the Jedi Council (which is now dead, anyways)?
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Kreia is a typical insane senile women.

 

She just wanted an end in the force, not because she hates jedi, just because she was blamed for the Jedi civil war and wanted to enact revenge on the jedi council.

Are you sure those were Kreia's motivations? I thought she wanted an end to the force because she believed it was causing predestination and removing free will. Where did you get the idea she wanted revenge on the Jedi Council (which is now dead, anyways)?

 

I don't see Kreia as a 'bad guy.' Through her studies and her life, she had perceived the end of the galaxy. But she couldn't make people listen to her. She wasn't charismatic at all, and she knew it.

 

She was certainly bitter toward the Jedi council for their past actions toward herself and Exile, but I believe she went into that meeting still hoping to change their minds. She wasn't insane, and she wasn't full Sith. She hoped that they could finally see, through Exile, what they'd been doing wrong. She was prepared to finish them off if they didn't listen this time ... which of course, they didn't.

 

IMO this is the same message Revan delivered to the Jedi warriors on Malachor--Join me, or die. She is following Revan's agenda, and will do whatever it takes.

 

For game purposes, Exile was either LS or DS, but Kreia's teachings were actually half of each. Which makes me think both Revan and Exile were gray as well, in that they weren't bound to strict adherence to either extreme. They choose--and that is the the death of the Force as a controlling factor. It will continue to exist, flowing among all life forms, but there is no need for it to 'balance' the light and the dark any more. Exile is a gift, an 'equalizer' because of the Force bonds. So if taught correctly, he/she could do more conversion than ten Malachors, with little to no loss of life.

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I think her entire character is meant to explain Revan for the next game. He will appear as an enemy. Look at the Ludo Kreesh tomb, he was an enemy of the future. However, he is not sith, but not Jedi. If anything, he is more jedi than sith in the way that he wants to save the republic. Since he has no real title however, you must see that he is no enemy.

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I think her entire character is meant to explain Revan for the next game. He will appear as an enemy. Look at the Ludo Kreesh tomb, he was an enemy of the future. However, he is not sith, but not Jedi. If anything, he is more jedi than sith in the way that he wants to save the republic. Since he has no real title however, you must see that he is no enemy.

 

IMO Kreia had a pretty good idea where Revan went, maybe even what he was planning. But she couldn't risk telling anyone. There was always a chance Exile wouldn't choose to follow, although that was always her intention.

 

But your post just brought me an idea... Kinda disturbing, but Revan took nobody with him, and needed no ship to get back. That's been bothering me. What if he intended to 'convert' the true Sith forces, take control as their 'leader', then lead them back into an ambush comprised of Mandalorians and Republic forces? That fits Revan to a T. He knows the Mandalorians' and the Republic's style of fighting; he knows both leaders are loyal and gave them fairly specific instructions. While the Republic might be at a disadvantage numbers-wise, a couple of tactical 'errors' on Revan's part, and no more Sith. Cool, but scary.

 

Exile's bonding ability might certainly come in handy, if Revan was having difficulty gaining control. The Sith would never know what hit them.

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I think her entire character is meant to explain Revan for the next game. He will appear as an enemy. Look at the Ludo Kreesh tomb, he was an enemy of the future. However, he is not sith, but not Jedi. If anything, he is more jedi than sith in the way that he wants to save the republic. Since he has no real title however, you must see that he is no enemy.

 

IMO Kreia had a pretty good idea where Revan went, maybe even what he was planning. But she couldn't risk telling anyone. There was always a chance Exile wouldn't choose to follow, although that was always her intention.

 

But your post just brought me an idea... Kinda disturbing, but Revan took nobody with him, and needed no ship to get back. That's been bothering me. What if he intended to 'convert' the true Sith forces, take control as their 'leader', then lead them back into an ambush comprised of Mandalorians and Republic forces? That fits Revan to a T. He knows the Mandalorians' and the Republic's style of fighting; he knows both leaders are loyal and gave them fairly specific instructions. While the Republic might be at a disadvantage numbers-wise, a couple of tactical 'errors' on Revan's part, and no more Sith. Cool, but scary.

 

Exile's bonding ability might certainly come in handy, if Revan was having difficulty gaining control. The Sith would never know what hit them.

 

Oh yeah Kreia yaps her true motives when she finds the jedi masters, or it was when you ask her about Atris..

 

The whole Jedi Council hates Kreia because they felt that she was responsible for Raven's falling to the darkside which caused the Jedi Civil war.

 

It could also be possible that the Jedi masters used the force to cut Kreia off, I got that idea when she tells you how they can never really ever cut you off from the force permamently.

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  • 2 weeks later...

IMO 'Exile' is Kreia's answer to fixing Revan who is destined by the force to be corrupted by the darkside each and everytime they come across it again and again. Revan told canderous and carth to prepare for war because deep down she/he knew that inevitably they would lose her to the darkside and she would wage war again in the name of the sith

 

But Kreia felt with 'Exiles' powerful force bonds and enough training perhaps they could use it like a massive force persuade on Revan instead of draining Revan to death. And make him/her stop falling to the darkside, stop the possibility of another Jedi civil war. And if the 'Exile' killed the force then there would be nothing to will Revan to join the darkside because a darkside wouldnt exist therefore another jedi civil war would never start again.

 

 

my two cents anyway

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Revan never once fell to the darkside. That was just Revan there.

 

Also, Revan learned how to make force bonds just like the Exile, but the exile is much stronger in it.

 

I think that is how Revan and Bastila linked. Revan saw her and thought, okay, easy, I bond to her, kill these jedi and destroy her lightsaber or such and turn her to my side, which will make my fleets invincible against the s---- *boom* Where am I? Who are you? Why are you talking to me like some huge tutorial game? If we are in so much danger how do we have time to listen to you ramble when we should be dead by now....

 

I think Revan just cannot find how to destroy these Sith and is calling for help with that reason, there is no conventional method of beating these guys according to Kreia, making his attempts useless. So he fell back, perhaps fell into their ranks to hide and wait for help.

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This very subject touched very closely to the plot I see for KotOR3 and which I'm currently describing in the KotOR3 topic on the Obsidian General forum (yes, shameless plug... :ermm: )

 

As I see it, Revan sacrificed himself himself in order to fight the true Sith, but like Ulic he lost his way and was seduced by the dark side and his own thirst for power. If Malak hadn't betrayed him, he would have continued his conquest of the Republic and then used it's resources to conquer the Sith empire as well, once he had won.

 

Revan either ends up either controlling the Starforge and the dark jedi-sith (DS ending) or defeating them for the Republic (DS ending) in the first game, but the true Sith are still waiting, and he must still fight them, either to save the Republic (LS) or to protect his own power (DS). But he knows that the true Sith are too powerful to face in an armed conflict, so he goes to the unknown regions to infiltrate their ranks from within, effectively sacrificing himself to his cause again.

 

I'm not convinced Kreia supported his plan, but I do think she saw it and realized that she could not sway him away from it. The Exile was never part of her plan or of Revan's. As we learn in KotOR2, it was actually T3-M4 who went to find the Exile and bring him back to restore some form of order in the Republic, though T3-M4 may have been manipulated by Kreia toward that goal. Otherwise it seems rather convenient that Kreia just happens to be on the Ebon Hawk when it pick up the one individual who fits perfectly fits into her own plans to defy the jedi masters and combat the will of the force.

 

I don't see the Exile's force bonds as inherently dangerous or damaging. After all, the Exile's companions seem completely unaffected by the bonds. The bonds just seem like a bad thing because they leech away force from others like parasites. The thing about the Exile, however, is that he is disjoined. On Malachor V he shed himself from the part of himself that was corrupted by the dark side, and that part of him then became Darth Nihilus. I was waiting for a scene where the Exile sees Nihilus' real face and recognizes him as a companion who died on Malachor V, preferably the Exile's old jedi master, which he should certainly have a very strong force bond with. So the dark part of the Exile that he is trying to deny finds into the dead body of his master and revives it, then uses it as a host.

 

We didn't see that in KotOR2, however, because the Exile didn't fully realize it. He just realized that Nihilus was somehow changed on Malachor V like he was himself. I mean, isn't it rather odd that the Exile tells Visas to take Nihilus' mask and give it to him, but never actually looks at Nihilus' face himself? Well, he realized the truth on a subconscious level and chose not to face the truth. That the Exile ended up with Nihilus' mask was very telling...

 

Now, when the Exile goes to the unknown regions in search of Revan, the two of them confront each other. Their battle ends with Revan capturing the Exile by using the truth against him. By forcing the Exile to see how he ran from the truth on Malachor V. Here we should see some flashbacks of Exile seeing Nihilus' face on the Ravager with Visas and Mandalore. This brings the Exile to a psychological breakthrough when he faces his past and accepts it, joining the broken pieces of his psyche together again. However, it also turns him to the dark side and he becomes the new Darth Nihilus, the Darth Nihilus that he was destined to become on Malachor V, but which he denied. He also becomes Revan's new apprentice in Revan's quest to assume the title of Dark Lord from the true Sith.

 

Together they work to unite the fallen jedi as a new faction with the true Sith empire and thereby creating a Sith civil war. This was Revan's plan, and it may yet work, though even LS Revan knows that he cannot expect to fool the dark side - if the Republic is to survive, then he will have to either die or be converted back to the light side at some point. Bastila could be instrumental in that, which is why he left all his friends behind. The same is true for the Exile, though I doubt he realized it to the extent Revan did. The Exile just knew the danger and chose to go alone because he didn't want his friends to face the dark side with him, and perhaps he hoped to be able to reject the dark side again as he did on Malachor V. Revan ruins that by forcing him to realize the truth, however.

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I wish there was some kind of Neurtal ending in KoToR. That would've been better then the cheesy LS and DS endings.

 

face it once and for all. neutral endings doesnt work in rpgs and star wars. to be neutral would give you two choices. either an insane character who one second kills a little cat and in the next helps an old woman over the road. or you could be some do what you want, i dont care, i stay here tipe of character who would do nothing and that means nothing at all. if someone asks you for help you can either refuse, or except. and if you thing kreia was neutral, she wasnt, she maybe wasnt the pure darksider but done just evil things, including manipulating the exile. same for obi wan kenobi who surely was a lightsider.

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I wish there was some kind of Neurtal ending in KoToR. That would've been better then the cheesy LS and DS endings.

 

face it once and for all. neutral endings doesnt work in rpgs and star wars. to be neutral would give you two choices. either an insane character who one second kills a little cat and in the next helps an old woman over the road. or you could be some do what you want, i dont care, i stay here tipe of character who would do nothing and that means nothing at all. if someone asks you for help you can either refuse, or except. and if you thing kreia was neutral, she wasnt, she maybe wasnt the pure darksider but done just evil things, including manipulating the exile. same for obi wan kenobi who surely was a lightsider.

Well, strictly speaking a neutral alignment seeks to balance the extremes of Law/Chaos and Good/Evil, seing them all as aberations of the natural state of the universe. So, although it might appear random from the outside, a neutral character would not be random at all.

 

By this definition Kreia was most certainly neutral.

OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS

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OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT

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The whole Jedi Council hates Kreia because they felt that she was responsible for Raven's falling to the darkside which caused the Jedi Civil war.

 

It could also be possible that the Jedi masters used the force to cut Kreia off, I got that idea when she tells you how they can never really ever cut you off from the force permamently.

 

The Council hates Kreia because her teachings strayed from their hallowed Jedi code. Instead of seeing her philosophy as 'enlightened', they viewed them as a threat, possibly to their own power. Revan and Exile didn't follow the Council's orders and therefore Kreia was blamed, for teaching them incorrectly. Kreia is doing the exact same thing, pointing fingers back at them, only she's saying the Sith are wrong as well.

 

IMO the Council did cut Kreia off from the force, although this was not publicized or even stated by Kreia in so many words. She knew first-hand what it felt like to be cut off, and she'd managed to survive and come back, so she knew it was possible. That bitterness in itself would be enough to turn her to the dark side. But when she tried to train Sion and Nihilus, they turned on her too. So in the end, she was just herself.

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