Prequel Battle Meditation

[Revan Si-Darlo]

Actually, let me check the Core Rulebook...

 

It doesn't say what Qui-Gon is though it definitely lists Obi-Wan as a Jedi Guardian. But I agree on the Watchman part, though I think prior to being a watchman Qui-Gon is more likely to have been a Sentinel or a Guardian than a Consular. He's too rebellious and relies too much on his instincts and feelings to be a Consular, who is more contemplative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget the fact that Qui-Gon Jinn had been assigned to a diplomatic mission on Naboo at the start of Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace, though. I've heard that a few of the novels also had him going on diplomatic missions frequently, and, of course, Jedi Consulars were said to have played the "diplomatic" role of the Jedi Order. He seemed quite "in tune" with the Force as well, the notable difference being that he simply contemplated a different aspect of its nature than the other Jedi Masters. I think he was definetly a Jedi Consular, but I'm not really sure as to whether he would fit the bill as a Jedi Watchman or as a Jedi Master for his Prestige Class...

 

You make a good point about the diplomatic missions. However, keep in mind that during the 1000 years of almost-no-war between the fall of the last Sith Empire and the time of Episode I there is pretty much nothing else for Jedi to do besides diplomatic missions. Besides, other Jedi besides consulars have been dispatched on such missions before.

 

My point merely is that he has a sentinel's personality. True, he's meditative and concentrates on the Force but he also is rebellious, reflexive, and one of the best lightsaber duelists.

 

Based on Obi-Wan Kenobi's "investigative" mission to Kamino and Geonosis in Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones, I generally thought of him as a Jedi Sentinel, which were said to be basically the "detectives" of the Jedi Order. With the Core Rulebook's words and the introduction of Prestige Classes, though, I guess he was a Jedi Guardian... Definetly a Jedi Watchman for his Prestige Class, though. I would think of him as a Jedi Guardian during his time as a Padawan in Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace, then as a Jedi Watchman during his time as an actual Jedi Knight (or Master?) in Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones and so on.

 

Keep in mind that they're almost certainly going to redo the rules again when ROTS comes out and if they do that they might even add KOTOR elements in such as the Sentinel class because of the game's popularity. I'm looking forward to that.

 

Regarding Darth Maul, I think it could be argued that he might've been a Sith Assassin, rather than a Sith Marauder, since he did seem to play a sort of "assassin" role for Darth Sidious... He struck me as more of a sort of secretive assassin-style fighter, not a "powerhouse/tank"-style warrior. I mean, he was obviously good with a lightsaber, but so would be Sith Assassins...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Won't argue with that.

[Grant Dempsey]

You make a good point about the diplomatic missions. However, keep in mind that during the 1000 years of almost-no-war between the fall of the last Sith Empire and the time of Episode I there is pretty much nothing else for Jedi to do besides diplomatic missions. Besides, other Jedi besides consulars have been dispatched on such missions before.

 

My point merely is that he has a sentinel's personality. True, he's meditative and concentrates on the Force but he also is rebellious, reflexive, and one of the best lightsaber duelists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget, though, that Master Yoda was also well-known as an extremely skilled lightsaber duelist, so I wouldn't necessarily say that Jedi Consulars couldn't still be skilled with lightsabers. (I would consider Count Dooku as having been a Jedi Consular and Sith Lord, after all, and he was clearly very skilled in the art of lightsaber dueling.)

 

Anyway, I just feel like Qui-Gon Jinn's general demeanor and attitude about the Force fit the bill as potential traits of a Jedi Consular. His focus on meditation, his contemplation as to the true nature of the Force, etc. He was rebellious toward the Jedi Council, certainly, but, then again, so was Jolee Bindo, another Jedi Consular. If not a Jedi Consular, then I would say he was a Jedi Master for his prestige class, at least.

 

Keep in mind that they're almost certainly going to redo the rules again when ROTS comes out and if they do that they might even add KOTOR elements in such as the Sentinel class because of the game's popularity. I'm looking forward to that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, the Core Rulebook didn't include the Jedi Sentinels at all? Only the Jedi Guardians and the Jedi Consulars? I suppose that would explain it, then. Still, I would be willing to accept Obi-Wan Kenobi being a Jedi Guardian as a Padawan and a Jedi Watchman once he actually became a Jedi Knight. His demeanor in Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace, especially throughout the confrontation with Darth Maul, seemed relatively befitting of a Jedi Guardian, whereas his demeanor (and the mission he was sent on) in Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones and afterward definetly seemed befitting of a Jedi Watchman.

 

I could be extremely wrong here, but, based on the fact that

Revan

never actually seemed to become officially recognized by the Jedi Council as more than simply a Padawan throughout Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (since Master Vandar still referred to him as "the Padawan" during the scene wherein he and Bastila contacted Master Vandar from inside the Ebon Hawk along the game's Dark Side path), perhaps it could be said that Jedi Guardians, Jedi Sentinels, and Jedi Consulars were actually the classes of Padawans, while the prestige classes were the classes of actual full-fleged Jedi Knights and/or Jedi Masters, or something like that anyway. Like I said, though, I'm probably extremely wrong.

[Revan Si-Darlo]

I could be extremely wrong here, but, based on the fact that

Revan

never actually seemed to become officially recognized by the Jedi Council as more than simply a Padawan throughout Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (since Master Vandar still referred to him as "the Padawan" during the scene wherein he and Bastila contacted Master Vandar from inside the Ebon Hawk along the game's Dark Side path), perhaps it could be said that Jedi Guardians, Jedi Sentinels, and Jedi Consulars were actually the classes of Padawans, while the prestige classes were the classes of actual full-fleged Jedi Knights and/or Jedi Masters, or something like that anyway. Like I said, though, I'm probably extremely wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Suppose you could be right about Qui-Gon anyhow. But you know, I don't think that's true. For example, Kreia, who certainly finished Jedi training is classified as a Jedi Consular. I also think that Revan did pass the padawan level before he lost his memory and that the reason Vandar called him such was because he A) Didn't want to reveal Revan's identity to Admiral Dodonna or B) He didn't realize Revan had discovered his true identity as he didn't sense Bastila's fall.

[Grant Dempsey]

Suppose you could be right about Qui-Gon anyhow. But you know, I don't think that's true. For example, Kreia, who certainly finished Jedi training is classified as a Jedi Consular. I also think that Revan did pass the padawan level before he lost his memory and that the reason Vandar called him such was because he A) Didn't want to reveal Revan's identity to Admiral Dodonna or B) He didn't realize Revan had discovered his true identity as he didn't sense Bastila's fall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, no, no, I wasn't meaning to imply that Revan hadn't become anything more than a Padawan at all. I simply meant, over the course of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, as an amnesiac. With his memories gone, it seemed he had even consciously forgotten how to use the Force, hence why he underwent training on Dantooine again even though he had already done so before losing his identity. Since the Jedi Council certainly didn't want to clue him in on his own identity, they had to train him as though he were an entirely new learner altogether, which meant that he was learning (or "relearning") how to use the Force at a relatively natural pace. That was why Master Vandar and the rest of the Jedi Council only "officially" recognized him as a Padawan.

 

Regarding Kreia, you did make a good point. Although, remember, Kreia's connection with the Force was stripped from her by Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion, so I suppose it could be argued that she herself was sort of "regaining" her power over the course of the game as well, meaning she would have started doing so from a weaker state, reflected by her class during her time as a playable character being that of a simple Padawan or something. Though, I think she had a prestige class as a boss character (Sith Lord).

[Seahawker]

Going back to Qui-Gon, i would say he was a Scoundral/Consular/Master if you were to include those classes from the first KOTOR. I say Scoundral 'cause of the way he manipulated(cheated) the dice cube at Watto's. Consular because he was a diplomat and Master because he seemed to be well rounded in the use of the force/feats without being too heavily built in either of them.

[TetsuJedi]

Going back to Qui-Gon, i would say he was a Scoundral/Consular/Master if you were to include those classes from the first KOTOR. I say Scoundral 'cause of the way he manipulated(cheated) the dice cube at Watto's. Consular because he was a diplomat and Master because he seemed to be well rounded in the use of the force/feats without being too heavily built in either of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree.

 

On a side note, they got a really good actor to play Qui-Gon Jinn. Sucks that they killed Qui-Gon Jinn off. The Jedi could actually use more of his character on the Council. They're so arrogant and up on their high horse it's a wonder why there aren't as many Dark Jedi at ANY given time as there are Jedi.

[JediExile]

You have to draw the line somwhere. I doubt Lucas is playing Knights of the Old republic and saying well in this scence Qui-Gon uses Battle Meditation and then attacks Maul, but Maul makes a save. It's like those who compare lightsaber fights of old to nowadays. It's not that Luke was untrained that his attacks were wild. It's because they didn't have any martial arts people to cauriograph the fights like they do nowadays. All swordfighting was to people here in the middle ages was hacking and slashing much like what you see in Return of the Jedi.

[Darth Flatus]

I agree with you jedi exile - my comment about making a save was made in jest.

 

Trying to put combat and characters from the films in d20 categorisation is a a bit silly since the rules were made after the film and only to make a game free and playable enough to have any appeal.

 

TBh when watching the phantom menace for teh first time i just thought qui gonn was having a sit down and a bit of a breather - i half expected him to pull out a cigarette.

[Slipstreme]

Okay to put this to rest; I was just pointing out soething that could have given the creators of KOTOR an idea on a power that would make Bastila a more interesting charater I didn't expect us to go on the track of what kind of Jedi class they would be