Kreia's goal?

[random evil guy]

she wanted to destroy the force(and thus all life?). that much i got, but what the hell happened in the end at malachor? what did she train the exile for? she said the exile's training would be complete after malachor; then what? she said the exile had several choices(stay at malachor, go looking for revan or stay with his/her friends). how does this relate to the whole destruction of the force thingy?

 

the exile leeched force off other living beings. fine. i got that. kreia saw an opportunity to destray the force, because she hated the force(no free will, destinity and all that). so what was the point of the ending? why did she want the exile to kill her? exactely how was she planning to destroy the force...?

 

i'm not even gonna start on the whole hanharr vs. mira thing or the goto vs. small, floating turdbot thingy...

 

 

btw, i really liked the game. just thought the ending left a bit to be desired...

[Zilod]

I think that what made the Exile so great and so important is not his leaching power, Nihilus and Kreia herself had that power too, is not that he was strong in the force or with a sabre.

 

The Exile power and uniqueness(?) is that he chose to leave the force and that he is an example.

 

He recided himself his bounding with force, he was not in need of the force to survive or to be "complete", the force can no more shape his destiny, now he is free to chose and he can see and hear the galaxy as a man.

The danger with him is that he can inspire the others to follow his example and to become like him, to put away the force and to free themselves.

 

at least this is my interpretation eheh

[Raisu]

I'm not sure if I got it completely, but i'm sure that Kreia only wished for the death of the Force itself, though not of all life. The Exile was almost like her test subject. Through the Exile, Kreia realized that it may be possible to live without the Force and free yourself from it's bonds.

 

At least, that's what I thought. If i'm wrong, feel free to correct.

[Iseo Tiakan]

He recided himself his bounding with force, he was not in need of the force to survive or to be "complete", the force can no more shape his destiny, now he is free to chose and he can see and hear the galaxy as a man.

 

Aha! Many thanks, you've just solved potentially the last piece of my personal puzzle; namely, if Nihilis is actually a part of the exile (as I believe he is), why does Visas Marr say after looking at Nihilis that he is "just a man"? If I understand correctly, Visas is really telling something the exile more or less exactly what you just said.

[Tanuvein]

I don't think her original intention was to destroy the Force... I believe she wished to find a way to survive without hte Force, a way to depend on herself as a person, and the strength in that. She saw that in the Exile, and wanted to understand it and possess it. And she loved it.

[Whitemithrandir]

I don't think her original intention was to destroy the Force... I believe she wished to find a way to survive without hte Force, a way to depend on herself as a person, and the strength in that. She saw that in the Exile, and wanted to understand it and possess it. And she loved it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bingo. We have a winner. You get an e-hug from me.

 

:: e-hugs you ::

[Zilod]

He recided himself his bounding with force, he was not in need of the force to survive or to be "complete", the force can no more shape his destiny, now he is free to chose and he can see and hear the galaxy as a man.

 

Aha! Many thanks, you've just solved potentially the last piece of my personal puzzle; namely, if Nihilis is actually a part of the exile (as I believe he is), why does Visas Marr say after looking at Nihilis that he is "just a man"? If I understand correctly, Visas is really telling something the exile more or less exactly what you just said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i posted this in the Nihilus 3d is my opinion about what is him and what happened.

i put it here to save time eheh the additions are the "decoding" of nihilus dialogue.

(that Kreia is his master and that the Exile stole his exence)

 

Very nice additions to Nihilus story

 

I don't think that Nihilus and the Exile are the same person.

 

I'm more inclined to think that Nihilus, probably Sion and maybe even Keira herself where on Malachor V

 

We have many hints about what it could be happened but we don't know exactly what...

 

about Nihilus i'm inclined to think that it was a force sentivie soldier (jedi or not), or maybe even a sith in the academy.

 

i think is interesting the fact that Nihilus thinks that his essence or probably better his force where severed and cut by the Exile.

 

Is also interesting that the Exile compare the tragedy on Visas world to the battle of Malachor V.

 

Also if i'm not wrong, is stated that was the Exile to start everything, it could be that was because he lead the attack but also that was the hole in the force that he created that leeched or destroyed the connection to the force of all people on Malachor.

 

So a theory can be that during the battle due to the pain, the fear and the death all the force users where dying, they where no more able to "hear" the force but not even able to abandon the force.

Here that during the massacre the Exile chose to recide his bounds and this decision, the situation, the deaths created the hole in the force.

Due to the Exile natural links or by the raw presence of the hole all the essence of the living creatures present and of the planet itself where "absorbed" or destroyed in this hole that the Exile created, but some force user where able to survive to the massacre.

 

here that Nihilus for some reasons, maybe due to his ability to form strong bounds as the exile, was able to survive, fuelled by the dark side.

It could be that when his essence was drained in the hole he was able to leech some of the essence of other living behings around him that where suffering the same fate. This stolen essence was enought to keep him alive and here that Nihilus was born... He have no more his essence he is a hole in the force like the Exile now and to survive he is forced to fuel himself with the essence of other living behings, as he have done to survive on Malachor.

 

 

I think that Sion could have suffered a similar destiny, the fact that his body is so crushed can be due to the fact that he was on a ship that crashed on Malachor, Instead of Nihilus that survived absorbing other living essence and emotions, is it possible that he fueled himself using his own pain and hate.

 

 

And note that it seem that even Visas suffered the same fate as the exile, i think that is it possible that during the destruction of her world she left the force too and for this reason Nihilus was not able to kill her.

Probably Nihilus acted with her as Kreia is doing with the Exile, making her perceive te force due to a "life bound".

[Darth Credulous]

Having realised the threat of the True Sith was out there, I daresay Kreia surmised that because these were the Real Deal:

 

1) the Jedi couldn't stop them because the 'True Sith' were too strong in the dark side and

 

2) the Sith couldn't stop them because the Sith would be driven by the Force to serve the True Sith.

 

So she trained Revan to be as focussed within himself as he could be, gave him a clear purpose and a clear goal, to defy the Dark Side while using its' strength and create a strong, powerful galaxy that could fight them. So far so good. That went awry when Malak - who had recieved none of Kreia's self-determination classes - betrayed Revan, but by the end of things, at least Revan had been salvaged. Remembering his purpose, off he goes to uncover this threat of the True Sith.

 

The second part of Kreia's plan - to use Malachor V as a training ground to create those who could 'drain' the Force, the Sith Assassins you meet who become strong when fighting those strong in the Force. These are the 'secret weapon' against the True Sith.

 

But she is unseated when Darth Nihilus (who is either a man who completely mastered this technique or a spectre who is the embodiment of it, people are still wondering about this) drained her of her power and her apprentice, Darth Sion - who had totally flunked Kreia's self-determination courses - cast her out. The Sith Assassins are turned towards destroying Jedi and Kreia's plans are in tatters.

 

So she becomes nothing but a beggar, knowing that the end is coming but unable to really do anything about it or regain her position, until she meets the Exile, Linked to him, she regains her power as he does, and she tries to train him to be able to defeat Nihilus, allowing her to retake Trayus Academy and get her plans back on track.

 

But eventually, she overhears what the Council have figured out, and what she never actually realised - that the Exile is not just a Jedi, but could be the death of the Force. More, he is proof that without the Force, the galaxy can survive.

 

Bingo... all her teachings, all her beliefs and all her plans are suddenly changed by this. If she can break the Exile to her will, she will then have a weapon that can destroy the Force forever - allowing the galaxy to find its' own destiny, and ending the threat of the True Sith - for without the Force, what kind of a threat can they be?

 

And, if he truly proves strong enough to defeat her, then he has come so far that even she cannot subdue him - which makes him not just a weapon in her hands, but a free man who could yet turn things around. In this case, Kreia will just have to have faith - not in the Force, but in the Exile himself.

[Topaz Quasar]

What about Atris? Where was her part?

[Darth Credulous]

Originally, I'm sure, Kreia just wanted to make sure she knew where Atris was and could go back to her if it was needed. Atris was her 'bait' to get the Exile to Telos and defend it against Nihilus - as she'd already managed to 'arrange' it that Telos is where Nihilus would be. She knows there's a history between Atris and the Exile, and she's prepared to use that.

 

However, when everything changes and she realises what the Exile is capable of, then Atris becomes more than a motivation to get to Telos, she becomes a test - Kreia uses the history between Atris and the Exile to turn Atris to the dark side., or at least reveal that was the way she was going all along. From here, one of two things can happen.

 

1) The Exile will win, Atris will tell him/her where to find Kreia. Another part of the Exile's past is resolved, allowing him or her to look to the future without the distractions of the past - and the fact that the Exile can defeat Atris is more proof that the Exile is the weapon she needs. With luck, the Exile will defeat Nihilus next.

 

2) Atris will win, and will either spare the Exile or kill him. Either way, it doesn't matter. If Atris could beat the Exile then he wasn't the tool she needed after all - she'll have to figure out a new way to defeat Nihilus, clearly. And Atris will come to Malachor V, which will give Kreia a new apprentice to work with in an attempt to create a new 'Revan'.

[Zilod]

mmm i don't agree that Kreia was out of power when she met the exile, nor that she didn't realize what the Exile was from the beginning.

 

Kreia was always hungry of knowledge, it seem that was that who made her fall, as the jedi where not able to give her all the answers she became to study the sith teaching until she felt, but even as a sith she was not satisfied, bot the knowledge of jedis and ****s where not enought and probably continued to studies, probably discovering (or rediscovering) many secrets, including this technique...

in my opinion is at this time that she realized how the force blind the ones who use it and how it manipulate the living creatures.

 

I don't even try to think what was her plan before she met the exile, she ran the sith academy on malichor and probably she met Revan at least 2 times.

Then Nihilus and Sion took her place draining her and she was forced to leave the academy.

Probably due to her studies she was able to regain power pretty fast and began to plan to use the exile to destroy the force.

 

note that maybe she where alredy plaining that from the academy on malachor but we really don't know what she really was doing in that time...

 

she say at some point that she was holding the galaxy at the throat, that seem to indicate a will to conquer it, or that she was so powerfull that she no one was able to confront her. (1vs1 )

 

about my suppositions

 

I think she was at her full power when she met the exile for how she act against the jedi enclave she simply annihilated them showing both a great power and the mastery of the "draining technique"

 

even when she met Sion on the Harbringer she is so confident, she knows that she is in the control and i bet that Sion where not able to cut her and if she didn't permit that.

 

also during all the game she almost resurrect many character that we tought dead, and even that show that she have still a great power.

 

also she stated tha was her choice to show to the exile the force, i suppose that she actually made the link with the exile and used that even for this purpose.

 

 

 

I'm also pretty sure that she knew the "potential" of the exile from the beginning, or better i think that to speak of potential about the exile is wrong, the exile is alredy what he is, he have just to comprehend that. Is not that the exile training is focused to make him more powerfull, Kreia at the end says that actually this was a mistake she made, but to help the exile to get coscience(?) of himself.

 

Kreia is a guide for all the game, her tests are meant to make the exile accept his past and the choices he have done, to face his old enemies and his fears. (this is really evident on Korriban for example).

 

Also she prepare the exile to the future, and many times she give hints about what will happen.

[Darth Credulous]

If we watch the FMV when Kreia is challenged by Sion and Nihilus, Nihilus does something - after his attack, Kreia is too weak to even use the Force to pick up her lightsaber. Sion beats her up, and that's the end of that.

 

This force bond the Exile and she share - she leads the Exile to believe that he/she is hearing the Force through her, doesn't she? She makes such an effort to make the Exile believe he needs her. It makes sense, in fact, that the opposite is true - the deaths at Peragus station awaken the Force in the Exile again, and in turn, they awaken Kreia as well.

 

***

 

As for Sion: Sion clearly wants Kreia alive, though why I don't know. Who knows why. He beat her up on Malachor, and sends her away. When she confronts him again on Peragus, he cuts off her hand and sends her away. He thinks himself free of her, perhaps, and because she's powerless he'd rather she remain alive and powerless rather than dead? Yet at the end of the game she returns having regained her powers, and takes him as her servant again.

 

I THINK that what happens is that Kreia holds on to the hope that Sion will spare her life a second time, and that if she holds him at bay, he won't realise there are others with her. 'Power blinded him long ago, and he cannot fight what he cannot see.', she says. This could refer both to her presenting Sion with herself as a target, and to Sion being unable to see the threat of the True Sith in the background.

 

***

 

And the Jedi Council - hmm. It's suggested somewhere that all Kreia did was show the Jedi, directly, the pain and horror the Exile carries with him, the full pain and horror of Malachor - and because the Jedi Masters are unable to seperate themselves from the Force like the Exile did - because they're too 'light-side' and too dependent on the Force, they die. This proves, to her, that they are weaker than the Exile in that respect.

[Zilod]

Originally, I'm sure, Kreia just wanted to make sure she knew where Atris was and could go back to her if it was needed. Atris was her 'bait' to get the Exile to Telos and defend it against Nihilus - as she'd already managed to 'arrange' it that Telos is where Nihilus would be. She knows there's a history between Atris and the Exile, and she's prepared to use that.

 

However, when everything changes and she realises what the Exile is capable of, then Atris becomes more than a motivation to get to Telos, she becomes a test - Kreia uses the history between Atris and the Exile to turn Atris to the dark side., or at least reveal that was the way she was going all along. From here, one of two things can happen.

 

1) The Exile will win, Atris will tell him/her where to find Kreia. Another part of the Exile's past is resolved, allowing him or her to look to the future without the distractions of the past - and the fact that the Exile can defeat Atris is more proof that the Exile is the weapon she needs. With luck, the Exile will defeat Nihilus next.

 

2) Atris will win, and will either spare the Exile or kill him. Either way, it doesn't matter. If Atris could beat the Exile then he wasn't the tool she needed after all - she'll have to figure out a new way to defeat Nihilus, clearly. And Atris will come to Malachor V, which will give Kreia a new apprentice to work with in an attempt to create a new 'Revan'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I strongly disagree here

 

Atris alredy felt when they met the first time and Kreia knows that.

When they leave talos she speak about Atris and she tells that Atris moved the first teps on the path that she chose long time ago.

 

also in the end, when you ask Kreia why she destroyed Atris she tells you that she haven't destroyed her, just that she removed her veil and gave them the truth (something like that)

 

 

I also strong disagree that Atris will replace the Exile if she can beat him.

the Exile is unique, is his chose to abandon the force that made him unique, the true power of the Exile is that he was able to refuse the power of the force and to live whitout it.

 

Kreia doesn't need anything exept that, imo her strenght is far superior to everyone we meet in the game i think that she was/is at least as powerfull as Revan, if not more.

 

 

 

Atris in my opinion is essentially a big part in the exile past (expecially if the exile is a man ) and the exile will need to face her to gain more consciousness about his choices, she is an unfinished part of the Exile past, a thing that have to be concluded.

Atris is also a danger for Kreia plan to destroy the force, as she is planning to build a sith ehm jedi academy and for this reason she have to be stopped.

 

I also think that during all the game Kreia is playing "safe", she doesn't expose the Exile to danger, every step of the exile is gradual, and when the Exile was in some danger she stepped in to protect him taking care in first person of the enemies... this happen both with Sion and the jedi council... in both encounters the Exile had no chances to survive and here that she handled the situation directly.

 

When Kreia let the Exile face Atris, Nihilus and Sion she knows that the Exile will win, so an option with Atris that beat the Exile is simply not possible in my opinion

[Zilod]

If we watch the FMV when Kreia is challenged by Sion and Nihilus, Nihilus does something - after his attack, Kreia is too weak to even use the Force to pick up her lightsaber. Sion beats her up, and that's the end of that.

 

This force bond the Exile and she share - she leads the Exile to believe that he/she is hearing the Force through her, doesn't she? She makes such an effort to make the Exile believe he needs her. It makes sense, in fact, that the opposite is true - the deaths at Peragus station awaken the Force in the Exile again, and in turn, they awaken Kreia as well.

 

***

 

As for Sion: Sion clearly wants Kreia alive, though why I don't know. Who knows why. He beat her up on Malachor, and sends her away. When she confronts him again on Peragus, he cuts off her hand and sends her away. He thinks himself free of her, perhaps, and because she's powerless he'd rather she remain alive and powerless rather than dead? Yet at the end of the game she returns having regained her powers, and takes him as her servant again.

 

I THINK that what happens is that Kreia holds on to the hope that Sion will spare her life a second time, and that if she holds him at bay, he won't realise there are others with her. 'Power blinded him long ago, and he cannot fight what he cannot see.', she says. This could refer both to her presenting Sion with herself as a target, and to Sion being unable to see the threat of the True Sith in the background.

 

***

 

And the Jedi Council - hmm. It's suggested somewhere that all Kreia did was show the Jedi, directly, the pain and horror the Exile carries with him, the full pain and horror of Malachor - and because the Jedi Masters are unable to seperate themselves from the Force like the Exile did - because they're too 'light-side' and too dependent on the Force, they die. This proves, to her,  that they are weaker than the Exile in that respect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kreia know the draining technique, with her links and this technique she can get as much power as she want, yes when Nihilus drain her she is weak, but she knew this how to use it (she is the master of both Sion and Nihilus) and can apply it to regain her former power (actually i think that Kreia become more powerfull than before after that)

 

Sion "spare" Kreia because Kreia is controlling him

I'm quite sure she let him cut her hand because even that is a test, she is showing to the Exile that they will have to sacrifice important things during their journey, and also she is showing to the Exile how strong is their bound.

On Korriban in the battle against Sion she suggest to the Exile to flee, and Sion at that moment says that She is protecting him and actually stand still looking the exile flee. I think is quite clear that Sion can't chase the Exile and that due to the will of Kreia.

 

 

Kreia use the drain technique against them, if you examine the corpse of the 3 masters they are "empty", their force was drained/destroyed.

Also at the "beginning" of the fight she is treating and force pushing them as little kids.

[Darth Credulous]

In my own opinion - the Jedi Masters are dead not because Kreia has drained them, but because they've been exposed to the wound in the force that is Malachor. Perhaps Kreia was the conduit, yes. But I don't think she took their powers. She's not like Nihilus and the Exile, she has no 'hunger' inside her to feed.

 

***

 

And if she could force-wave Jedi Masters from the beginning of the game, then why in blazes is she the same level as you all the way through?! The reason: she has been gaining power through the Exile. I bet at that stage of the game the Exile could force-wave the Masters too, if he was a consular.

 

Her bringing back of people to life isn't wholly unbelievable. There's a force power that allows you to revive fallen comrades, so it's entirely possible that this is what she is doing.

 

***

 

And Kreia: yes, she is playing it safe, alright. She knows that the Exile is what she wants, a man who is ultimately not controlled by the Force's vision of destiny. This means that it's not the Force's will, but the Exile's resolve, training and skill that's going to decide matters. This leaves open the possibility that he will lose.

 

If that's so, then Kreia's going to need a backup plan. I never said that Atris would 'replace' the Exile - only that she would be someone Kreia would be able to use as a servant, possibly to counterbalance Darth Sion. She's trying to plan for every contingency here.

 

And the way I see it - Kreia stopped coddling the Exile the moment she became powerful enough to stand on her own against Darth Sion. That, I feel, tells me that she was clinging to him for as long as she needed him to survive, to allow her to regain her power through him - and once she's powerful enough, she can begin to try to test him to destruction and see if he really is the one she needs.

 

Her actions Do Not Make Sense, Otherwise.

[Zilod]

In my own opinion - the Jedi Masters are dead not because Kreia has drained them, but because they've been exposed to the wound in the force that is Malachor. Perhaps Kreia was the conduit, yes. But I don't think she took their powers. She's  not like Nihilus and the Exile, she has no 'hunger' inside her to feed.

And how they got exposed to the wound in the force of Malachor?

That wound is actually the exile that is uncounsious on the ground, the exile forms bounds with everyone he have around, if is just the exposure to drain the force everyone on ebon hawk or even the masters that show him new techniques or fight with him should be dead by long time.

There Kreia is doing something very active, the same thing that Nihilus does to his victims.

 

I think is also interesting the dialogue that the Exile have on ebon hawk with Visas after the jedi council...

They speak even about the links and i have the impression that the bounds that the exile estabilish are not so "force related", but is just an impression.

 

 

And if she could force-wave Jedi Masters from the beginning of the game, then why in blazes is she the same level as you all the way through?! The reason: she has been gaining power through the Exile. I bet at that stage of the game the Exile could force-wave the Masters too, if he was a consular.

Even atton is lv2 but he was a former warrior and a sith elite assassin that killed a lot of jedis.... the level is just a game mechanic. It also makes sense that Kreia is holding back, if she annihilate everything they meet i don't think the Exile will have many chances to "grow up", also as said in the moment that the Exile was facing enemies strongher than him she handled the situation in first person.

 

 

Her bringing back of people to life isn't wholly unbelievable. There's a force power that allows you to revive fallen comrades, so it's entirely possible that this is what she is doing.

Is still a demonstration of her power, expecially with the colonel at Oderon, he was one of the main traitors, if he was just unconscious probably the soldiers have "arrested" him before Kreia had the chance to revive.

That guy had to be almost dead to not attract the attention of anyone.

 

 

And Kreia: yes, she is playing it safe, alright. She knows that the Exile is what she wants, a man who is ultimately not controlled by the Force's vision of destiny. This means that it's not the Force's will, but the Exile's resolve, training and skill that's going to decide matters. This leaves open the possibility that he will lose.

Not if she knows that the Exile is superior and in his capability.

for example the Exile meet Sion 3 times

the first time Kreia knows that he can't even confront him and handles the situation direcly.

the second time she knows that the Exile can confront him but can't win and actually she stop the fight when the Exile realize what Sion is.

the 3rd time she knows that the Exile is stronger than Sion and she doesn't do anything.

 

If that's so, then Kreia's going to need a backup plan. I never said that Atris would 'replace' the Exile - only that she would be someone Kreia would be able to use as a servant, possibly to counterbalance Darth Sion. She's trying to plan for every contingency here.

 

And the way I see it - Kreia stopped coddling the Exile the moment she became powerful enough to stand on her own against Darth Sion. That, I feel, tells me that she was clinging to him for as long as she needed him to survive, to allow her to regain her power through him - and once she's powerful enough, she can begin to try to test him to destruction and see if he really is the one she needs.

 

Her actions Do Not Make Sense, Otherwise.

 

The exile is not an instrument of destruction, Nihilus is that and she was not in need of him

Also she goes to Malachor not to face Sion, but to bring the Exile there, she tell that to Exile, "It was difficult to draw you here, but had to be done"

 

Her action don't make sense if you think them in a power perspective

She is no more a sith with the hunger for power, she is fighting the force itself, the thing that gives her the power.

She want to free the galaxy from the force to free the it from the force will and determination.

 

She doesn't want to conquer, she doesn't need a slave or a weapon, she doesn't need an instrument of destruction, she need someone that refused the "lure" of the force, that break his bound and was able to survive, that stopped to used the force to sustain himself and to help him to see the world, but that can do these thing with his own eyes, with his own strenght.

 

There is not power in this, but the strenght of the individual, the strenght of a Man that can be an example to others.

[Darth Credulous]

Granted she needs something to destroy the force OR, if that fails, to fight the True Sith. That means:

 

1) for preference, the Exile

 

or, failing that

 

2) Trayus Academy, and some pupils

 

If the Exile fails - and he CAN fail! The very fact that it's possible to lose the game through death means he - you - can fail! then Kreia *will* need a backup plan. Hence being powerful enough to reassert her superiority over Sion, her need for more force-sensitive pupils (starting with Atris - Atris thinks she'll be going to Malachor to slay Kreia, but I'm sure that's not how it would work out)

 

***

 

And no, Nihilus drains the life and the force from those he consumes. He feeds the wound directly because he IS the wound, in the same way as the Exile is the wound. Kreia only acts as the conduit to the wound (through her force blind with the Exile) - leaving the Jedi Masters lifeless, but gaining nothing herself except the satisfaction of having proved her point.

 

Otherwise, if she was capable of this, if she was a wound in the force herself, then she could challenge Nihilus herself - and it's quite clear from her actions that she has failed to do so in the past and does not think she could do so in the future.

 

***

 

And Kreia does not know the true potential of the Exile, not until the Jedi Council reveal it. Why do you think she gets to her feet, and gasps in surprise when it is revealed?

 

***

 

She doesn't want to conquer, she doesn't need a slave or a weapon, she doesn't need an instrument of destruction, she need someone that refused the "lure" of the force, that break his bound and was able to survive, that stopped to used the force to sustain himself and to help him to see the world, but that can do these thing with his own eyes, with his own strenght.

 

And why *does* she need all this, do you think? So she can fight the True Sith! Of COURSE she needs weapons, what do you think this is all about? Why else cut the galaxy off from the Force, if not to end that threat? Why is she so furious that mankind is a slave to the Force? Because it means the True Sith will win! Why else is she doing all this? It's her - and Revan's - agenda from beginning to end!

 

And yes, Nihilus could be used, but he is out of control - and Kreia cannot bring him to heel.

[Zilod]

Granted she needs something to destroy the force OR, if that fails, to fight the True Sith. That means:

 

1) for preference, the Exile

 

or, failing that

 

2) Trayus Academy, and some pupils

 

If the Exile fails - and he CAN fail! The very fact that it's possible to lose the game through death means he - you - can fail! then Kreia *will* need a backup plan. Hence being powerful enough to reassert her superiority over Sion, her need for more force-sensitive pupils (starting with Atris - Atris thinks she'll be going to Malachor to slay Kreia, but I'm sure that's not how it would work out)

Exile: Why you destroyed Atris?

Darth Traya: I never destroyed Atris, she destroyed herself, i just stript away the veil of illusions and brought her the truth, Her teachings could not be allowed to continue.

Exile: you used me against your enemies.

Darth Traya: I used you so you could reveal Atris corruption, so that her teachings could be ended before it began.

 

i really don't see Atris as a backup, she want to eliminate her and her teachings

 

And no, Nihilus drains the life and the force from those he consumes. He feeds the wound directly because he IS the wound, in the same way as the Exile is the wound. Kreia only acts as the conduit to the wound (through her force blind with the Exile) - leaving the Jedi Masters lifeless, but gaining nothing herself except the satisfaction of having proved her point.

I can agree that maybe she used the link with the Exile instead of the draining technique, but even in this case she is doing something active, something that the Exile probably can't do or don't know how to do.

In both case she is showing a great power doing something like that.

 

 

And no, Nihilus drains the life and

Otherwise, if she was capable of this, if she was a wound in the force herself, then she could challenge Nihilus herself - and it's quite clear from her actions that she has failed to do so in the past and does not think she could do so in the future.

She was not able to face Nihilus (but also consider that they where in 2 against her) because probably had not the draining power at that time..

 

Kreia: It is a technique that is old as the **** themselves it is a mean to sever connection between life, the force and feeding about the death that causes

Kreia It cannot be told, It can only be learnt throught the instinct throught the experiencing its effect first hand.

 

Kreia at that time maybe had not that power as she was never drained, i think it makes sense that she aquired that power when she experienced it from Nihilus.

 

I also think to remember a dialogue that stated that Nihilus is just an echo of your wound, it also make sense if the Exile drained him when he recided his bound.

 

And Kreia does not know the true potential of the Exile, not until the Jedi Council reveal it. Why do you think she gets to her feet, and gasps in surprise when it is revealed?

 

No no i'm really sure about that, the Exile is what he is, and Kreia knows that from the beginning.

Kreia in the jedi enclave, before the Exile meet the council, actually when he is going to face them alone.

 

Kreia: And now peraphs, they shall se what you have become.

 

She know what the exile is, and i think that this is quite clear in this statement

 

She doesn't want to conquer, she doesn't need a slave or a weapon, she doesn't need an instrument of destruction, she need someone that refused the "lure" of the force, that break his bound and was able to survive, that stopped to used the force to sustain himself and to help him to see the world, but that can do these thing with his own eyes, with his own strenght.

 

And why *does* she need all this, do you think? So she can fight the True Sith! Of COURSE she needs weapons, what do you think this is all about? Why else cut the galaxy off from the Force, if not to end that threat? Why is she so furious that mankind is a slave to the Force? Because it means the True Sith will win! Why else is she doing all this? It's her - and Revan's - agenda from beginning to end!

 

I tought about the true sith too, expecially considering the cut dialogues, but she is pursuing a greater goal... she really want to free the galaxy ftom this oppression... she tell that to exile.

 

Exile: why have you done that?

Darth Traya: It is said that the force have will, that have a destiny for all.

Darth Traya: I wield it, but it use us all, and that is revolting(?) to me

Darth Traya: Because i hate the force, i hate that it seem to have will that it put control to achive some ballance, when countless lives are lost.

 

No mention of True Sith, just the force that enslave lives.

[Darth Credulous]

i really don't see Atris as a backup, she want to eliminate her and her teachings

 

Subduing and training Atris on Malachor is an equally effective way of ending her teachings - by replacing them with another.

 

Ask yourself this - in the theoretically possible scenario of the Exile being slain by Atris, how do you think things would play out? Kreia has already told Atris where she is going - to Malachor - so that's where Atris will go. Even though Kreia wants the Exile to win, she is still planning for the eventuality that he will lose.

 

She was not able to face Nihilus (but also consider that they where in 2 against her) because probably had not the draining power at that time..

 

That explains how she was defeated the first time, yes. But what you say does not explain why she cannot challenge Nihilus after she has supposedly learned this technique.

 

I don't think Sion was ever a threat to Kreia, ever. Only after Nihilus attacks and drains her does Sion make a move against her, and after seeing Kreia at her full power against the Jedi Council, I doubt Sion could have held his ground when she was in her 'prime'. Sion really needed Nihilus' help in this one.

 

No no i'm really sure about that, the Exile is what he is, and Kreia knows that from the beginning.

Kreia in the jedi enclave, before the Exile meet the council, actually when he is going to face them alone.

 

Kreia: And now peraphs, they shall se what you have become.

 

She know what the exile is, and i think that this is quite clear in this statement

 

It's quite possible that she thinks she knows, yes. I think she knows he is a wound in the Force, yes. BUT I don't think she's made the leap in intuition that would allow her to grasp just how dangerous the Exile is, and she only realises the truth - and what the Jedi Council are going to do - once the Council says it out loud. Otherwise, why does she not confront the Council directly if she knows what they will likely do? Why does she act so surprised?

 

I think the point is that up to that point, her plans have all been about re-establishing her original plan - to create warriors who can feed off the Force to fight the True Sith. And after the Council, that changes.

 

No mention of True Sith, just the force that enslave lives.

 

This mysterious threat is mentioned by Kreia quite clearly at the end, after her defeat, when she tells the Exile that he is ready to fight it.

 

The way I see it, she cannot be doing both - she cannot both be trying to destroy the Force because she hates it, and training the Exile to fight the True Sith. The two are incompatible. The only way I can see to reconcile them is to assume that the reason she hates the Force and the control it has is because it will mean the enslavement or destruction of the galaxy, or whatever, once the True Sith arrive. That is the only way *everything* she says makes sense.

[Zilod]

Subduing and training Atris on Malachor is an equally effective way of ending her teachings - by replacing them with another.

 

Ask yourself this - in the theoretically possible scenario of the Exile being slain by Atris, how do you think things would play out? Kreia has already told Atris where she is going - to Malachor - so that's where Atris will go. Even though Kreia wants the Exile to win, she is still planning for the eventuality that he will lose.

No i really don't think that Atris can defeat the Exile at that time and same for all the challenges he find on his path.

If the Exile fail, Kreia fail, also consider the bound between Kreia and the Exile, is quite possible that if Atris kill the Exile then Kreia herself will die.

 

She was not able to face Nihilus (but also consider that they where in 2 against her) because probably had not the draining power at that time..

 

That explains how she was defeated the first time, yes. But what you say does not explain why she cannot challenge Nihilus after she has supposedly learned this technique.

 

I don't think Sion was ever a threat to Kreia, ever. Only after Nihilus attacks and drains her does Sion make a move against her, and after seeing Kreia at her full power against the Jedi Council, I doubt Sion could have held his ground when she was in her 'prime'. Sion really needed Nihilus' help in this one.

Because she don't need to face him, as she don't need to destroy Sion.

even for your theory when Kreia returns to Malachor she is stronger than Sion, she have the power to destroy him but she doesn't do that.

 

also to be honest i'm not too sure that Kreia can really defeat Nihilus, she is more powerfull, but the hunger of Nihilus is so wild that can be unstoppable.

I think the main point in that is if Nihilus can drain again kreia or not, and we will never know that for sure.

As i think she now can use that technique too i suppose she can't be drained but again we really don't know.

 

also in the translation of nihilus dialogues (if they are correct) when nihilus die it refers to Kreia as his master, not as an ex master like Vader with Obi in ANH, or an enemy that set a trap to him, but as his actual master.

If these translations are correct i think it can be very interesting

 

No no i'm really sure about that, the Exile is what he is, and Kreia knows that from the beginning.

Kreia in the jedi enclave, before the Exile meet the council, actually when he is going to face them alone.

 

Kreia: And now peraphs, they shall se what you have become.

 

She know what the exile is, and i think that this is quite clear in this statement

 

It's quite possible that she thinks she knows, yes. I think she knows he is a wound in the Force, yes. BUT I don't think she's made the leap in intuition that would allow her to grasp just how dangerous the Exile is, and she only realises the truth - and what the Jedi Council are going to do - once the Council says it out loud. Otherwise, why does she not confront the Council directly if she knows what they will likely do? Why does she act so surprised?

Because the Exile have to face the council, he have to do that because is an unfinished thing of his past.

 

the thing she says are not surprised is not that she is realising what the Exile is, she is telling us what the exile is.

 

the masters tells that the exhile is blind because the force doesn't sustain him anymore

she tells that he began to see as the veil of the force is no more obscuring his vision

 

they tells that he is incomplete, no more sustained by the force

she tells that now he is complete

 

she tells that to the Exile. she say that to herself and to us, not because she is discovering that but because that is the truth that the council can't see because their fear.

 

even later when she judge the council she say that, they had the chance to see the true but instead of doing that they where posting a judgment on the exile and to destroy him due to their fear.

 

also look at how she enter....

Enought...

Step away from him...

He brought truth and you condamn he? what arrogance...

 

She knows what the Exile is, she refers to thim as the truth...

(and she is showing a lot of power too )

 

There is also another root of the enclave where Kreia states that the Exile was her only hope, the only creature able to do what she wanted, and when the Exile doesn't understand she almost kill him with a ray similar to the one used against the council.

 

I think that this put an end to the theory that she destroyed the council using the Exile power.

 

No mention of True Sith, just the force that enslave lives.

 

This mysterious threat is mentioned by Kreia quite clearly at the end, after her defeat, when she tells the Exile that he is ready to fight it.

 

The way I see it, she cannot be doing both - she cannot both be trying to destroy the Force because she hates it, and training the Exile to fight the True Sith. The two are incompatible. The only way I can see to reconcile them is to assume that the reason she hates the Force and the control it has is because it will mean the enslavement or destruction of the galaxy, or whatever, once the True Sith arrive. That is the only way *everything* she says makes sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She speak about the threat but just in the end to explain what happened to Revan, not to explain her action

Anyway if the force leave the galaxy i think there will be not even true sith

 

I really don't think that these siths where a preoccupation for her, the force and her enemies are her goal.

[Zilod]

Back to the first question and to recap a bit...

 

after looking the other jedi enclave option is quite clear that she have 3 goals...

 

in order

1) To show to the jedis that their code can't lead to the knowledge of the force. (this is probably more a sort of an old wish that a true goal)

 

2) To stop the echoes created at Malachor V that are a threat to the galaxy (Nihilus in first place, but probably even Sion and i think even herself, if they will not be stopped they will continue to drain the living and to consume the galaxy)

 

3) To free the galaxy from the "Oppression" of the force. (this is her final goal, the highest one, the ones and very discussed in the 3d)

[random evil guy]

too much crap in this thread.

 

to sum it up:

1.how did kreia intend to kill the force?

 

2.why did kreia want to kill the force? to protect the galaxy from the real sith by destroying the force? or because she hated the fact that the force had a will of its own?

[DarthNihilus]

IMHO

She wanted to make the Exile more powerful than she is and make him REALIZE what had he become(I tend to believe that he uses the Force as Nihilus did) in a sense that he is no longer in touch with the Force but instead feeds on Force Sensitives and/or through battle

Given the endings his purpose for which Kreia sought him was to kill Sion and Nihilus and be the strongest Jedi remaining(through him she will also kill all other Jedis we know about except one if u are LS which will fall to DS anyway) and to go to the Sith or after The True Sith

[random evil guy]

no bull****, please. what does the characters say themselves in the game? i don't care about interpretations and opinions. what does kreia say in the game?

 

to me, it seems her goals change towards the end. at first she seems to be looking for a way to kill the force. somehow she needs the exile to do this, because he could walk away from the force after m5. still, that doesn't explain how she intended to kill the force...

 

why did she want to kill the force? she says she hates the fact that it has a will of its own. ok, it's all good so far.

 

then wtf is all the stuff about the real sith? what were kreia's intentions on m5? kill the exile and herself? die at the hands of the exile? what?!?!?

 

what were kreia's goals? the whole "real sith" stuff confused the hell out of me...

[DarthNihilus]

Last fight is the last test to acheive Mastery yourself...that bond was induced and never existed(MAY have existed) but he doesn`t die when she dies

ALL her teachings were to make him what SHE was and teaches him about how to FEED from the Force NOT to establish his Force bond since THAT bond which he had as General at MAlachor V is dead...she teaches him the way to become DArth Nihilus or at least to use the Force as he does

Also she makes him to kill the ones that "Made her suffer indignities"- Nihilus for stripping her power and Sion for betraying her(he was her`s apprentice and will be again toward the end). I also believe the first fight on Harbinger was real and he wasn`t her apprentice then

 

So u are a tool in Kreia`s hand for revenge and to become the greatest Jedi/Sith ever. Since Kreia`s past is with the Sith I bet she wanted to make you stronger than she was so in the end to pass the title of Sith Lord to you(Nihilus dead Traya becomes Sith Lord and Sion - apprentice since he can`t challenge her)