Should've Bioware Taken The Job For KOTOR II?

[213374U]

fps=action orientated

rpg=story orientated

No. True RPGs are about choice and guess what: role playing, not story. Not anymore than FPSs, anyway. The story is just the setting upon which the game mechanics are applied, and is not defined by the those or the POV. If so far most FPS games have a simple story is just because their devs didn't put enough emphasis on that aspect of the game. Not because FPSs can't have a deep, complex plot.

 

 

i believe that those two phrases say it all

And I believe that oversimplifying an argument is not a good way to make a point.

[GarethCarrots]

"No. True RPGs are about choice and guess what: role playing, not story. Not anymore than FPSs, anyway. The story is just the setting in which the game takes place, and is not defined by the game mechanics or the POV. If so far most FPS games have a simple story is just because their devs didn't put enough emphasis on that aspect of the game. Not because FPSs can't have a deep, complex plot."

 

yes rpgs are defined by choice and role playing, but in depth choice and in depth role playing, you make the character your own, this development is what makes it into a story. your comment on storys just being the setting for a game is complete ignorance, in all rpgs the game revolves around the story and if you try to deny that i first want a direct quote from someone who makes rpgs. story is not defined by game mechanics but game genre, mechanics are extremely subtle on the level i am talking about, over specifiying is not a good way make a point in my opinion. im not denying that fps can have an in depth storyline, but they dont, and an rpgs storyline will always be more in depth.

 

in an rpg the combat revolves round the story

in an fps the story revolves round the combat

[213374U]

yes rpgs are defined by choice and role playing, but in depth choice and in depth role playing, you make the character your own, this development is what makes it into a story.

Yeah, such as in Ps:T and KotOR in which you play a predefined character, eh?

 

Again, the only difference between FPS and RPG plots is that in some RPGs you can actually affect the outcome of the story. Nothing more.

 

 

your comment on storys just being the setting for a game is complete ignorance, in all rpgs the game revolves around the story and if you try to deny that i first want a direct quote from someone who makes rpgs.

The same can be applied to your statements about RPGs being equal to story and FPSs being equal to combat. You lose.

 

 

story is not defined by game mechanics but game genre, mechanics are extremely subtle on the level i am talking about,

What about mixed genres? A 'genre' is just a commercial label to appeal certain groups of gamers looking for certain characteristics in a game. Another wasted argument. Next.

 

 

im not denying that fps cant have an in depth storyline, but they dont, and an rpgs storyline will always be more in depth.

Proof, please.

[Meshugger]

in an rpg the combat revolves round the story

in an fps the story revolves round the combat

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Are people playing Diablo because of the story?

Are people playing Metroid Prime for the combat?

[Epiphany]

By default, perhaps. That doesn't exclude certain instances in which that isn't true.

 

I never said it was across the board, which is why I used the whole "vast majority". But you're just pigeon holing every game into one catagory anyway, per a statement further down.

 

So far you are unable to prove that FPS = simple plot. You just can't prove it because it isn't necessarily true. No amount of examples is enough to establish a rule.  Bottom line is, you are just too immature to accept that you are wrong. Despite overwhelming proof or flawless reasoning, you will just keep charging ahead, repeating the same lines over and over.

Grow up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bottom line is, you're just too hell bent on disagreeing with everything I say. The fact that you clearly ignored the entire point of

The original discussion was about comparing the linearity/simplicity of Halo 1 & 2 along with KOTOR to KOTOR 2. Leading for point a to b to c, with no chance of messing up. Two of the three games mentioned ARE FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS, which are, by NATURE linear experiences with less complex stories. In the vast majority of shooters, you go from area to area clearing them out to move on to the next. Outside of that, you're pulled from section to section by the game itself. This does not, in any way help further a crusade for a roleplaying game being complex, or forcing you to think, because no decent examples have been given to prove that point.

 

I'll ask you the same question I asked the other person, although I'm sure you'll drum up some "I am the most elitestestest person on the intarweb" response:

If you were given two choices, a FPS or a RPG, and were told to choose the one with the deepest, more complex, non linear story, and you knew nothing about either game except the standards set by each genre. Would you choose the FPS over the RPG?

 

There doesn't need to be any proof given by myself regarding simple/non complex plots/story progression in terms of FPS, because the only games you and the other guy are firing back are first person roleplaying games. Not your generic "Halo-esc" shooters. The entire discussion is blowing directly over your head beacause you aren't paying enough attention to what is being said. You're just shoving every single first person game into one stupid catagory, when we are specifically talking about FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS.

 

But yes, my ability to argue a point that you will obviously never understand makes me immature. Get off your totem pole, you aren't that important.

 

No. True RPGs are about choice and guess what: role playing, not story.

 

You're basically snowballing every single game in existance into a roleplaying catagory, since every game ever made presents you with choices. Every game in existance you "roleplay" a character.

 

Are people playing Diablo because of the story?

Are people playing Metroid Prime for the combat?

 

Metroid Prime is not a FPS. Diablo is not a RPG.

 

Next?

[GarethCarrots]

a genre is just a commercial label eh, i defy you to present that argument to anyone with any degree of intelligence successfully, in fact that is the single most ridiculous thing ive ever heard said. you have just tried to define a word, rewrite its its meaning in the dictionary. supreme arrogance not just stupidity:

 

gen

[Meshugger]

Metroid Prime is not a FPS.  Diablo is not a RPG.

 

Next?

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Thus, my point is proven.

[Epiphany]

Thus, my point is proven.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It went over my head then, because I thought you were trying to prove that MP was a FPS that people played for the story, and that Diablo was a RPG that people played for the combat.

[GarethCarrots]

please developer dude, if you are actually reading this, answer this question for me. as a developer of rpgs (i presume) would you not agree that they are more story based than fps, and therefore have more in depth storys than fps

[Epiphany]

please developer dude, if you are actually reading this, answer this question for me. as a developer of rpgs (i presume) would you not agree that they are more story based than fps, and therefore have more in depth storys than fps

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They would never participate in these shenanigans.

[GarethCarrots]

gah i dont understand why people are even trying to deny that rpgs have more in depth storys than fps, its pure stupidity.

 

let me turn this on its head, why would you say an rpg doesnt have a more in depth story...

[213374U]

Bottom line is, you're just too hell bent on disagreeing with everything I say.

No. I'm hell bent on disagreeing with every wrong thing you say. But don't get too happy, it's nothing personal. I do it with everyone.

 

 

If you were given two choices, a FPS or a RPG, and were told to choose the one with the deepest, more complex, non linear story, and you knew nothing about either game except the standards set by each genre.  Would you choose the FPS over the RPG?

For starters I wouldn't pick a game blindly over its 'genre'. That would be pretty dumb.

But then again, no amount of examples of past bad story FPSs and excellent story RPGs is going to prove that FPSs have to have a worse/more shallow plot than RPGs, because both elements aren't connected.

 

 

There doesn't need to be any proof given by myself regarding simple/non complex plots/story progression in terms of FPS, because the only games you and the other guy are firing back are first person roleplaying games.  Not your generic "Halo-esc" shooters.  The entire discussion is blowing directly over your head beacause you aren't paying enough attention to what is being said.  You're just shoving every single first person game into one stupid catagory, when we are specifically talking about FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS.

Aliens Vs Predator 2 had an excellent story, both in pacing and writing. The way the story was made complete by playing the 3 different races was just awesome. There you have your 'pure' FPS example.

 

Game, set and match.

 

 

Get off your totem pole, you aren't that important.

So says the guy who claims others to be part of his 'fanclub' just for disagreeing. That was almost funny. A pity you lack the brainpower to make actually fun jokes. Keep trying, though. Sometimes sheer effort can make up for the lack of talent.

 

 

Every game in existance you "roleplay" a character.

Did you actually read what I wrote earlier? I said RPGs are about choice AND role playing. The catch here is that, in RPGs you are actually given a choice on HOW to roleplay.

 

 

Next?

Next.

[Meshugger]

Thus, my point is proven.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It went over my head then, because I thought you were trying to prove that MP was a FPS that people played for the story, and that Diablo was a RPG that people played for the combat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You didn't, you thought correctly. People play Metroid because of its more adventuristic nature, not for the combat. People play Diablo in order to try diffirent character builds and maximizing as much as possible--> xp-junkies.

[GarethCarrots]

let me turn this on its head, why would you say an rpg doesnt have a more in depth story...

 

sheer stuborness, boredom, enlighten me.

[Meshugger]

gah i dont understand why people are even trying to deny that rpgs have more in depth storys than fps, its pure stupidity.

 

let me turn this on its head, why would you say an rpg doesnt have a more in depth story...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The main point isn't that. It's about how the story is told, which isn't restricted to a genre.

[GarethCarrots]

answer my question please, if you dont im just gunna presume you cant, which fyi i do neway

 

you obviously disagree with me when a say an rpg will always have a more in depth story so i want to know why you disagree

[Epiphany]

No. I'm hell bent on disagreeing with every wrong thing you say. But don't get too happy, it's nothing personal. I do it with everyone.

 

You don't do a very good job of proving your point. Oops, that's what you're supposed to say, my bad. I won't get angry if you want to use that as your fallback.

 

For starters I wouldn't pick a game blindly over its 'genre'. That would be pretty dumb.

But then again, no amount of examples of past bad story FPSs and excellent story RPGs is going to prove that FPSs have to have a worse/more shallow plot than RPGs, because both elements aren't connected.

 

Nobody said that they have to have worse stories, but they generally do (which is the fact you keep missing).

 

Aliens Vs Predator 2 had an excellent story, both in pacing and writing. The way the story was made complete by playing the 3 different races was just awesome. There you have your 'pure' FPS example.

 

Game, set and match.

 

AvP you ran from room to room clearing out enemies, and got tugged along for the ride. That's the original arguement here, sorry you failed to grasp it, and made up your own version of the discussion.

 

Game, set and match.

 

So says the guy who claims others to be part of his 'fanclub' just for disagreeing. That was almost funny. A pity you lack the brainpower to make actually fun jokes. Keep trying, though. Sometimes sheer effort can make up for the lack of talent.

 

To the person making up a discussion in his mind, claiming opinions as facts, and telling people to grow up because they don't believe his opinions as the gospel truth.

 

Did you actually read what I wrote earlier? I said RPGs are about choice AND role playing. The catch here is that, in RPGs you are actually given a choice on HOW to roleplay.

 

In a shooter, I can choose to roleplay my guy as a killing machine, or a guy that kills only what he has to, and runs from the rest. Oops, I guess that makes every FPS a RPG now, by your definition.

 

Wanna try again?

[Meshugger]

answer my question please, if you dont im just gunna presume you cant, which fyi i do  neway

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nothing's absolute. I find Unreal 1 having better dept in its story than Morrowind.

[Epiphany]

You didn't, you thought correctly. People play Metroid because of its more adventuristic nature, not for the combat. People play Diablo in order to try diffirent character builds and maximizing as much as possible--> xp-junkies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then you've utterly confused me, because that doesn't go against anything said in this discussion that I can tell.

 

Nothing's absolute. I find Unreal 1 having better dept in its story than Morrowind.

 

Oh my god...........

[GarethCarrots]

so you agree that in general an rpg will have a better story? you see as soon as you are confronted with qa question asking why you deny rpgs having better storys than fps you resort to a specific example, can you not see we are taling generally, even you must be intelligent enough for that, although your line of argument and technique in delivering it is shoddy

[213374U]

a genre is just a commercial label eh, i defy you to present that argument to anyone with any degree of intelligence successfully, in fact that is the single most ridiculous thing ive ever heard said. you have just tried to define a word, rewrite its its meaning in the dictionary. supreme arrogance not just stupidity:

I'm guessing that if you really need to go to the dictionary to look it up, it's you the stupid here, not me. But let's get on with it.

 

 

gen

[GarethCarrots]

tell me how to and i will use quotes, since i am forgiving your ignorance perhpas you will excuse mine.

 

do hurry i have many significant points to make

 

ps if no1 tells me i will presume its cos they are to scared because they know that i will own them eventually

[Epiphany]

And I stress the part about 'artistic composition'. Games are not an 'art', and thus the definition can't be applied to games the same way. You have failed to understand what the dictionary says. You're even more clueless than you seem at first.

 

Games are not an art? Oh please. The very definition of it uses the term "such as", which opens the door to other forms or art. It uses music and literature as two examples, both of which are found in games, the visual art is found in games also. Now you're just disagreeing with everything everyone says regardless of the logic behind it.

 

tell me how to and i will use quotes, since i am forgiving your ignorance perhpas you will excuse mine.

 

<quote> </quote>

Replace < with [ and > with ]

Oh and put text between them of course...

[Meshugger]

so you agree that in general an rpg will have a better story? you see as soon as you are confronted with qa question asking why you deny rpgs having better storys than fps you resort to a specific example, can you not see we are taling generally, even you must be intelligent enough for that, although your line of argument and technique in delivering it is shoddy

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RPG's that i've played:

 

Diablo

Fable

Morrowind

KotOR 1 & 2

Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X and X-2

Bloodlines

 

FPS that i've played:

 

Unreal 1 and 2 (the latter was horrible)

Half-Life 1, 2

Doom 1,2,3

Deus Ex 1, 2

System Shock 2

Undying

Unreal Tournament 1

Metroid Prime

Halo 1, 2

AvP 1, 2

Max Payne 1

 

I can easily say that these games are at a 50/50 range when it comes to story. Neither genre has overall better stories than the other.

[Epiphany]

RPG's that i've played:

 

Diablo not a RPG

Fable

Morrowind

KotOR 1 & 2

Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X and X-2

Bloodlines non-traditional RPG

 

FPS that i've played:

 

Unreal 1 and 2 (the latter was horrible)

Half-Life 1, 2

Doom 1,2,3

Deus Ex 1, 2 first person RPG

System Shock 2 first person RPG

Undying

Unreal Tournament 1

Metroid Prime not a FPS

Halo 1, 2

AvP 1, 2

Max Payne 1

 

I can easily say that these games are at a 50/50 range when it comes to story. Neither genre has overall better stories than the other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd keep going on this, but you haven't played very many RPG's from what you've shown on your list. It would be a waste of time to go on and on about the genre as a whole since you have limited experience in it.