Should've Bioware Taken The Job For KOTOR II?

[nik_bg]

So: KOTOR3 (if there will be) should be developed by both Bio and Obsi.

[Epiphany]

Bioware has said they're no longer working on licensed products. All their focus is going into their IPs, Jade Empire and Dragon Age. After JE is complete, they'll focus on the sequel or another IP.

[Adan]

I know you won't answer, because you are trying to act as though you don't read my posts. But oh well, better luck next time, trying to prove your point, eh?

 

One of many perhaps?

 

But i think you missed the piont, i think he was comparing the type's of players not the games.

[Epiphany]

He specifically mentioned "releases of Halo 1&2". It's a different genre, he continually tries to prove his points by comparing KOTOR 2 to the "buggy Halo", the KOTOR 2 story to the "Halo story", and now the KOTOR 2 experience to the Halo linear experience.

 

One of many perhaps?

 

Don't start until your informed enough to do so.

[Meshugger]

He specifically mentioned "releases of Halo 1&2".  It's a different genre, he continually tries to prove his points by comparing KOTOR 2 to the "buggy Halo", the KOTOR 2 story to the "Halo story", and now the KOTOR 2 experience to the Halo linear experience.

 

One of many perhaps?

 

Don't start until your informed enough to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He has a valid point though. He's comparing the approach the games have when telling the storyline, not the genres.

[Epiphany]

He has a valid point though. He's comparing the approach the games have when telling the storyline, not the genres.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is a glarring difference between the story progression of a first person shooter and the story progression of a roleplaying game.

 

He's trying to compare a genre, that is by DEFAULT, simple and straight forward, with a genre that is largely populated with more complex game elements, from character creation, to interaction, to story progression. Any idiot can make a "point" by grabbing one extreme and comparing it to another. If you're going to handicap your arguement with some asinine comparison, at least keep it remotely similar in game genre. Diablo would have been a better choice than HALO, since at least Diablo, by a small minority, is considered a "RPG".

[Meshugger]

He has a valid point though. He's comparing the approach the games have when telling the storyline, not the genres.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is a glarring difference between the story progression of a first person shooter and the story progression of a roleplaying game.

 

He's trying to compare a genre, that is by DEFAULT, simple and straight forward, with a genre that is largely populated with more complex game elements, from character creation, to interaction, to story progression. Any idiot can make a "point" by grabbing one extreme and comparing it to another. If you're going to handicap your arguement with some asinine comparison, at least keep it remotely similar in game genre. Diablo would have been a better choice than HALO, since at least Diablo, by a small minority, is considered a "RPG".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Character interaction and creation affects very little very coming to how a story is told in either two ways: Subtle, or in your face.

[Epiphany]

Character interaction and creation affects very little very coming to how a story is told in either two ways: Subtle, or in your face.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That does not change the fact that comparing a genre that is by default simple and straight forward to a genre that is largely populated with more complex story elements, is idiotic.

 

It's like trying to prove a point about how fast a BMW M3 is, by comparing it to a 3/4 ton truck.

[Meshugger]

Character interaction and creation affects very little very coming to how a story is told in either two ways: Subtle, or in your face.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That does not change the fact that comparing a genre that is by default simple and straight forward to a genre that is largely populated with more complex story elements, is idiotic.

 

It's like trying to prove a point about how fast a BMW M3 is, by comparing it to a 3/4 ton truck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Enough with the name-calling if you want to continue a serious discussion. If you have to resort to calling names in order to achieve an argument, then just stop.

 

Take the Max Payne-series, very good story implemented in an FPS, some would say even better than some RPG's. The car analogy isn't right though, a quality of a vehicle isn't down to its top-speed.

[Epiphany]

Enough with the name-calling if you want to continue a serious discussion. If you have to resort to calling names in order to achieve an argument, then just stop.

 

Take the Max Payne-series, very good story implemented in an FPS, some would say even better than some RPG's. The car analogy isn't right though, a quality of a vehicle isn't down to its top-speed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

idiotic

adj/

 

1. Showing foolishness or stupidity.

 

You need to harden your skin a little, just because you see the word "idiotic" does not mean someone is "name-calling". If I were to resort to true name calling, then I'd have been banned from these forums long ago.

 

The car analogy is perfectly fine for this discussion for the simple facts that:

 

1. Top speed is only one component of a car. - Just like story progression is only one component of gaming.

2. If someone wants a fast car, they'll pick a M3 over a 3/4 ton truck. - If someone wants high quality story progression, they'll pick a roleplaying game over a shooter.

[Meshugger]

Enough with the name-calling if you want to continue a serious discussion. If you have to resort to calling names in order to achieve an argument, then just stop.

 

Take the Max Payne-series, very good story implemented in an FPS, some would say even better than some RPG's. The car analogy isn't right though, a quality of a vehicle isn't down to its top-speed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

idiotic

adj/

 

1. Showing foolishness or stupidity.

 

You need to harden your skin a little, just because you see the word "idiotic" does not mean someone is "name-calling". If I were to resort to true name calling, then I'd have been banned from these forums long ago.

 

The car analogy is perfectly fine for this discussion for the simple facts that:

 

1. Top speed is only one component of a car. - Just like story progression is only one component of gaming.

2. If someone wants a fast car, they'll pick a M3 over a 3/4 ton truck. - If someone wants high quality story progression, they'll pick a roleplaying game over a shooter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not necessarily. As i said earlier, there's some FPS with better story than some RPG's. But this is getting way-off topic, point was that some people appreciate subtle approach to story-telling more than "in your face" approach. The latter is more common in FPS than in RPG.

[Epiphany]

Not necessarily. As i said earlier, there's some FPS with better story than some RPG's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's always bad games in every genre. If you were presented with two choices of games:

1. FPS you know nothing about

2. RPG you know nothing about

 

Then were told to pick the one with the better/more complex story, you'd by default, choose the RPG.

 

Max Payne has a great FPS story, but compared to the standards set by RPG's, it's not all that great. That is exactly why any comparison between the two genres can never prove a point of superiority for a given game. You have to look WITHIN the genre to make any point valid.

[Meshugger]

Not necessarily. As i said earlier, there's some FPS with better story than some RPG's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's always bad games in every genre. If you were presented with two choices of games:

1. FPS you know nothing about

2. RPG you know nothing about

 

Then were told to pick the one with the better/more complex story, you'd by default, choose the RPG.

 

Max Payne has a great FPS story, but compared to the standards set by RPG's, it's not all that great. That is exactly why any comparison between the two genres can never prove a point of superiority for a given game. You have to look WITHIN the genre to make any point valid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Deus Ex and System Shock 2, one of the best games ever, even story-wise. Yet they are neither RPG or FPS.

[Colrom]

I'm happy to see the game made by Obsidian this time around.

[Laozi]

I don't have a preference about the game maker as long as the game is good, I think this game though could have been better if it hadn't been rushed, I don't know if Bioware would have had enough *clout* to tell Lucasarts that they need more time, but we know that Obsidian didn't

[Epiphany]

Deus Ex and System Shock 2, one of the best games ever, even story-wise. Yet they are neither RPG or FPS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because they're first person RPG's. I'm not seeing where you're trying to go with this, but I can't wait for your next response...

[Colrom]

Hey, why don't you guys start your own thread!

[Epiphany]

Hey, why don't you guys start your own thread!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I hope you can make it through the night with all the pain this discussion has caused you.

[Meshugger]

Deus Ex and System Shock 2, one of the best games ever, even story-wise. Yet they are neither RPG or FPS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because they're first person RPG's. I'm not seeing where you're trying to go with this, but I can't wait for your next response...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First time i heard that response. Sites like RPG codex site them as RPG's, while most call them hybrids or FPS, making it hard generalize that all FPS and RPG's share the same formula, but that's beside the point.

 

The point was, KotOR and games like Halo share the same approach to tell a story ("In your face"), while others, like KotOR II, have a more subtle way of telling the story. That's what is the most distinct differences between KotOR and KotOR II, and the difference between Obsidian's and Bioware's approach (The last sentence was added in order make this more on-topic )

[Epiphany]

The point was, KotOR and games like Halo share the same approach to tell a story ("In your face"), while others, like KotOR II, have a more subtle way of telling the story. That's what is the most distinct differences between KotOR and KotOR II, and the difference between Obsidian's and Bioware's approach (The last sentence was added in order make this more on-topic )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Right, but Halo is still a FPS, and that's my point. Bringing up the KOTOR story approach is fine, but also bringing up Halo, or any FPS to prove a point for a RPG just makes the entire arguement weaker. Beyond that, it comes down to personal opinion, and I am of the opinion that KOTOR 2 was no more subtle than KOTOR. The story is there, right infront of you yelling "HELLO!", it's just on the boring side, which can make it appear mysterious or subtle to some people.

[213374U]

Bringing up the KOTOR story approach is fine, but also bringing up Halo, or any FPS to prove a point for a RPG just makes the entire arguement weaker.

No. You are running out of arguments and hence you are starting to make baseless claims. Time to concede.

[Epiphany]

No. You are running out of arguments and hence you are starting to make baseless claims. Time to concede.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's nothing to run out of, cause it's been the same goddamn arguement since the very beginning. There is nothing "baseless" about it. First person shooters, are BY DEFAULT, less complex than RPG's. It's not hard to understand, but I realize that it's hard for my fanclub to agree with me on anything, so I understand the closed eye approach you're taking.

 

If only this idiotic approach could be taken to every arguement in the world.

 

I live in the biggest house in the world, and my proof is because it's bigger than my aunts apartment.

I'm the fastest runner in the world, because I can run faster than my grandmother.

Pizza Hut pizza is the best pizza on the planet, because it tastes better than dirt.

 

The original discussion was about comparing the linearity/simplicity of Halo 1 & 2 along with KOTOR to KOTOR 2. Leading for point a to b to c, with no chance of messing up. Two of the three games mentioned ARE FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS, which are, by NATURE linear experiences with less complex stories. In the vast majority of shooters, you go from area to area clearing them out to move on to the next. Outside of that, you're pulled from section to section by the game itself. This does not, in any way help further a crusade for a roleplaying game being complex, or forcing you to think, because no decent examples have been given to prove that point.

[GarethCarrots]

hmm firstly of course fps are more simple than rpgs, anyone who argues otherwise is a fool

 

secondly no. if bioware were forced to work to the same schedule obsidian were the game would have been of similar quailty.

[213374U]

First person shooters, are BY DEFAULT, less complex than RPG's.

By default, perhaps. That doesn't exclude certain instances in which that isn't true.

 

 

It's not hard to understand, but I realize that it's hard for my fanclub to agree with me on anything, so I understand the closed eye approach you're taking.

When I agree with you, you lash out at me. When I disagree with you, you lash at me, too. Not that I really care what a sad little troll like you thinks, but I still find your lack of coherence somewhat amusing. Keep going, at the present rate, soon you will reach the point in which each new sentence will contradict the previous one.

 

And, um... what gave you the impression that somebody actually cares about you enough to be your 'fan'? Other than Hades that is.

 

 

The original discussion was about comparing the linearity/simplicity of Halo 1 & 2 along with KOTOR to KOTOR 2.  Leading for point a to b to c, with no chance of messing up.  Two of the three games mentioned ARE FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS, which are, by NATURE linear experiences with less complex stories.  In the vast majority of shooters, you go from area to area clearing them out to move on to the next.  Outside of that, you're pulled from section to section by the game itself.  This does not, in any way help further a crusade for a roleplaying game being complex, or forcing you to think, because no decent examples have been given to prove that point.

Irrelevant. Gameplay mechanics have nothing to do with how a story is presented. You keep associating both concepts, when they aren't really connected. VtM - BL is a FPS with RPG mechanics, and the story is presented in a masterful way. Others have given you other examples. So far you are unable to prove that FPS = simple plot. You just can't prove it because it isn't necessarily true. No amount of examples is enough to establish a rule.

 

Bottom line is, you are just too immature to accept that you are wrong. Despite overwhelming proof or flawless reasoning, you will just keep charging ahead, repeating the same lines over and over.

Grow up.

[GarethCarrots]

im not actually involved in this argument but i cant resist a good debate:

 

fps=action orientated

rpg=story orientated

 

i believe that those two phrases say it all

 

also you claim the other dude is immature because he wont stand down, even though your arguments are flawless, well from where im standing its the other way round, all opinions are subjective so do not try and make what you are saying into irrevocable fact