TSL's "Revelation"

[deganawida]

Okay, so Kreia mentions that the real threat to the galaxy is the "True Sith". I know that some people here really love this idea, but I have several serious problems with it:

 

1. How are they the "True Sith"? According to a KotOR 1 loading screen blurb, "True Sith did out millenia ago. The current Sith are followers of an ideal, not a race." Further, the Sith were originally just a primative people that the Dark Jedi conquered and bred with. How can there be "True Sith" way out there who are in no way connected to the Sith from the EU stuff. Sounds like a very poor plot twist to me: "Oh, we Sith didn't die out, we just left the galaxy and founded our own empire!" Give me a break.

 

2. Right, so Trayus Academy was founded by these True Sith and actually grew from the destruction of Malachor V. Not only that, but it keeps calling people to it to join the Sith. Um, okay, just one question: How? It's not like there's anyone there to communicate with people, and I have never read nor seen any Star Wars stuff about a planet so consumed by the Dark Side that people can feel it from across the galaxy. Further, how did it survive and grow? It's an inanimate object, for crying out loud, not an actual creature.

 

3. Okay, so Revan leaves his space ship, his friends, and everything else to fight these True Sith. How? How the heck is he even supposed to get to the True Sith if he has no transportation? How is one man (or woman, depending on your preference) supposed to take on an ancient evil more powerful than either the Republic or its version of the Sith? Does he just walk from planet to planet, cutting a swath through his enemies, who cannot find him even though he's the only freaking Jedi (assuming good Revan) in their entire empire and cannot help aiding the less fortunate? This bit of the ending made the least bit of sense to me.

 

Basically, the only way that I can make this whole "True Sith" nonsense make sense is to view either what Kreia said as a lie (well, she lied to you through the whole game, why not when she was about to die and you were reforming the very same Jedi Order that she hated?), or that it's meant to be some obscure metaphor directing the player (NOT the PC, but the actual player) to go out into the real world and fight Sith-like ideals here in our reality. Either way, they're both highly unsatisfying.

[Tel Aviv]

How the heck is he even supposed to get to the True Sith if he has no transportation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Could he not, hire something out?

[deganawida]

From whom? There's no one on Malachor V with a space vessel.

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

1.  How are they the "True Sith"?  According to a KotOR 1 loading screen blurb, "True Sith did out millenia ago.  The current Sith are followers of an ideal, not a race."  Further, the Sith were originally just a primative people that the Dark Jedi conquered and bred with.  How can there be "True Sith" way out there who are in no way connected to the Sith from the EU stuff.  Sounds like a very poor plot twist to me:  "Oh, we Sith didn't die out, we just left the galaxy and founded our own empire!"  Give me a break.

Maybe they were some escapees, left unscathed by the conquest. Mind you, I know little of the EU, but if this mustered assumption is correct, how could a few escapees conquer the Republic? I don't think they could, unless the had unlimited resources like the Star Forge, so they just disappeared and mated to form their own Empire, which could thrive with inner competition before it actually collapsed.

 

2.  Right, so Trayus Academy was founded by these True Sith and actually grew from the destruction of Malachor V.  Not only that, but it keeps calling people to it to join the Sith.  Um, okay, just one question:  How?  It's not like there's anyone there to communicate with people, and I have never read nor seen any Star Wars stuff about a planet so consumed by the Dark Side that people can feel it from across the galaxy.  Further, how did it survive and grow?  It's an inanimate object, for crying out loud, not an actual creature.

Ignorance of mine aside, you can communicate through the Force right? Obi did it with Luke, so an academy with a crapload of darkside energy poured into it might be able to too; which leads me on to this next thought. Sith seek power right? Visas could sense you through the force, so could you sense a academy that is probably really powerful, even before the battle at Malachor happened? As for it being an inanimate object, true, but you might be able to squeeze that by with ramblings about the Dark side and it's power.

 

3.  Okay, so Revan leaves his space ship, his friends, and everything else to fight these True Sith.  How?  How the heck is he even supposed to get to the True Sith if he has no transportation?  How is one man (or woman, depending on your preference) supposed to take on an ancient evil more powerful than either the Republic or its version of the Sith?  Does he just walk from planet to planet, cutting a swath through his enemies, who cannot find him even though he's the only freaking Jedi (assuming good Revan) in their entire empire and cannot help aiding the less fortunate?  This bit of the ending made the least bit of sense to me.

Just because he left the Ebon Hawk doesn't mean he had no transportaion whatsoever, right? They could have just said that so that K1 fans would recognize the EH, and make more of a connection between the PC and Revan. If these points are disproved by K2's story, then . That's where some creativity will come into play. He must know what he fights to defeat it right? You might be able to disprove this, but let's run with it. He studies first, using his patience as a tactician. Then he plots his next move. What is it you say? Well if people want me to write a fanfic about it, I will. It will probably suck, but I don't know.

 

Basically, the only way that I can make this whole "True Sith" nonsense make sense is to view either what Kreia said as a lie (well, she lied to you through the whole game, why not when she was about to die and you were reforming the very same Jedi Order that she hated?), or that it's meant to be some obscure metaphor directing the player (NOT the PC, but the actual player) to go out into the real world and fight Sith-like ideals here in our reality.  Either way, they're both highly unsatisfying.

 

I have to agree with you, but I can I get some answers? Did Kreia also hate the Order, because I thought all she hated was the Force, not the beings that utilized it, but I don't know. As they both seem unsatisfying, the latter makes you feel better, doesn't it? It does for me. Inspirational, I think, but I digress.

[agentdeadlyangel]

Okay, so Revan leaves his space ship, his friends, and everything else to fight these True Sith.  How?  How the heck is he even supposed to get to the True Sith if he has no transportation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was under the impression that Reven took the Ebon Hawk to the Outer Rim, and then sent it back. That's why

the navicomputer was voice locked and T3 zapped HK-47 when he was trying to discover where the ship had been.

 

 

Besides, wasn't it cool having the Ebon Hawk? It'll suck if the 3rd game has a different ship. Then again, maybe it's time to move on. But I thought it was great having the Ebon Hawk back in the game, so bravo to whatever lame excuse they used to put it there.

[deganawida]

I have to agree with you, but I can I get some answers? Did Kreia also hate the Order, because I thought all she hated was the Force, not the beings that utilized it, but I don't know. As they both seem unsatisfying, the latter makes you feel better, doesn't it? It does for me. Inspirational, I think, but I digress.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, OSW, assuming that your question isn't rhetorical in nature, I'd have to say, yes, she did hate the Jedi Order. After all, even after being exiled from the Sith, she still held to their teachings and viewed the Jedi as "weak". When playing my want-to-atone-and-be-a-Jedi-again character, she never had anything even remotely good to say about the choices that I made. She constantly criticized the Jedi for seeking peace and understanding rather than conflict and strength. She wipes out those Jedi that you manage to find, rather than instructing them in the truth of the Exile's nature (rather odd, when one considers just how much of a pedagogue Kreia was). Finally, she says that the Exile is not really a Jedi, and that's why she loves him. To me, this all suggests that she still hates the Jedi, as much if not more than she hates these new Sith.

 

Now, if on the other hand, your request for answers was directed more at the plot and writers, I can't help you there. I don't particularly care for TSL's approach of letting the player infer everything about the plot and backstory; it just feels lazy and pretentious to me ('course, this could also be due to it being pushed forward two months by the publisher, and I will make allowances for that).

[NeverwinterKnight]

Okay, so Kreia mentions that the real threat to the galaxy is the "True Sith".  I know that some people here really love this idea, but I have several serious problems with it:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

maybe kreia was lying the entire time, such as she lied about the force bond being fatal. theres a reason she was called darth traya.

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

Thank you deganawida.

But she is probably lying, so you will seek out the new threat, if you were LS, and not help bring harmony to the Galaxy, but it could have its good points, if in fact your state of a "wound" becames more...evil.

[deganawida]

Okay, so Kreia mentions that the real threat to the galaxy is the "True Sith".  I know that some people here really love this idea, but I have several serious problems with it:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

maybe kreia was lying the entire time, such as she lied about the force bond being fatal. theres a reason she was called darth traya.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yeah, I covered that possibility at the end of the first post. It's the only one that really makes in-game sense to me. After all, Kreia was a manipulative, lying schutta through the entire game, why would she be honest at the end?

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

Regret?

[deganawida]

Possibly, but why?

 

EDIT: Regret, love, friendship, compassion, these are all emotions that Kreia abandoned before TSL. In fact, she specifically criticizes each of these at different times: Regret is really fear of your actions, love is weakness and an illusion to manipulate, friendship is a useful tool to manipulate others, and compassion deprives others of the strength that they might need (her words, not mine). I just find it a bit too convenient for her to suddenly express regret in the final battle, when she was so dedicated to her role as a Sith Lord that, while she takes pride in you offering her a route to salvation, she turns it down so that the apprentice may kill the master and become the strongest Force User.

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

I don't know, but she did love. She loved the Exile. Maybe she thought he deserved truth. Or maybe not. But with all the regret of the Sith Lords, like Ajunta Pall, I just supposed, but Kreia could be different, because she learned hate through betrayal, and was taught betrayal. Maybe because of that lesson she was willing to not do that to the Exile. Or do you consider what she did to the Exile betrayal? I need to refresh.

 

P.S. Do you think the Exile would have died if the Masters had succeeded in the LS game?

[deganawida]

No, I also don't believe that the Masters would have been able to do it. Had they had time to continue, I believe that they would have been "wounded" as well, by creating a new wound in the Exile. Look at it this way: the Exile's wound was caused by him carrying around the deaths of Malachor V with him constantly (he really needed to confront his past in a concrete manner in the game and put those ghosts to rest). In trying to sever him, they would have magnified that wound (by adding another wound to the original), causing the Echo to increase in volume and deafen them to the Force (not an unpleasant prospect, considering they propose a kind of death rather than any attempt at healing). Of course, the other possibility that I see is that their attempt to sever him would have removed the Echo, thus allowing the Exile to fully hear the Force again, and remove his status as a "wound in the Force". Either way, things wouldn't have gone as planned.

 

As for what Kreia did, yes, I consider it betrayal. She practically undoes all the good that the Exile tried to accomplish in his attempt to restore the Jedi Order (this argument only makes sense from a Light Side perspective, of course).

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

Are her choices strengthing the Republic, like she insinuated on Nar Shaddaa, or are they actually hurting it, which could lead to strength against this new threat known as the True Sith?

[thepixiesrock]

Well if people want me to write a fanfic about it, I will.

 

(Begins chanting) Write a fanfic, write a fanfic, write a fanfic.(Chanting continues)...

[Ivan the Terrible]

If someone other than Chris Avellone makes the next game, I don't envy them the task of trying to make sense of this 'True Sith' stuff.

 

In fact, I don't envy Chris Avellone that, either. Explaining why Revan and the Exile couldn't bring 'anyone they love', or even explain where they were going to them, in order to fight an Empire which by the word of the EU has been dead for a long time isn't a simple task. I imagine virtually anything they come up with will be disappointing when brought into the light.

[NeverwinterKnight]

im just hoping that in some way or another its explained.

[anakins revenge]

yea...but the unknown regions ARE known for bein unknown.. so maybe sith hid there hundreds of thousands of years ago or somethin that wouldnt be in the history books

[random evil guy]

i hope obsidian makes kotor 3 someday and that avellone himself writes the story. at least, then there'd be some hope that some of the stuff in kotor2 could be resolved...