nik_bg Posted December 30, 2004 Posted December 30, 2004 This is a very good overview about games copy protection pros and cons. http://www.bookofhook.com/Article/GameDeve...ionDilemma.html In fact, is copy protection useless??
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 30, 2004 Posted December 30, 2004 The only thing it has a chance of being effective against is 0-day warez. Sooner or later, the crackers will break the protection no matter how advanced it is. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Gorth Posted December 30, 2004 Posted December 30, 2004 In fact, is copy protection useless?? Worse. It's counter productive. It's main purpose is to cause pain and trouble for legit buyers and reward people who go for "warez". The first thing I do when I buy a new piece of software, whether it be Windows itself or just a (relatively) cheap game is find copy protection/activation removers. Games usually runs more smoothly without it and when I buy it, I want to be able make a backup and work from that one (archiving the original media in a safe place, away from daylight and wear and tear). As for the attempts at quantification of the loss caused by filesharing etc. I "guess" that they are exaggerated to make somebody feel good about feeling sorry for themselves. Most (I'm guessing again) people who use illegal software wouldn't have purchased it in the first place but just continued without it. It's more likely a frustration thing, that developers and publishers can't do much about a bunch of pimple faced brats with attitude problems that steal their things and hides like the cowards they are, therefore using something like cd-drive killing protection schemes to give a false sense of at least doing something. If all the money that went into licensing Safedisc/Laserlock/Securom and all the other garbage went into tracking and elimintating the distribution channels, much would be accomplished. You can't stop people from trying to break a protection mechanism, it's a challenge thing, there will always be somebody who tries and succeeds. You can however go after those who try to make a (fake) name for themselves by distributing it. Assumedly, they are more in it for the "glory by association with the cool cracker thing" than the challenge thing. <_> “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
EnderAndrew Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 Online activation is the way to go. It discourages large numbers of pirates, yet it doesn't require SafeDisc or any type of protection that forces me to play off disc, or slow down gameplay.
Dark Wanderer Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 Gah, I HATE copy protections, even if I can understand the reason that companies install them. That doesn't change the fact that one of my games protected by SafeDisc 2 is _impossible_ to play, making me royally pissed since I spent over 60 dollars on the damn thing! Online activation? Well, I like this alternative better than copy protection; then at least you know for sure what you need to do. But it has to be pointed out that not everyone has Internet... Despite the fact that many people who've played KOTOR has a negative view on it, I'm still very optimistic about the Februari release and can't wait to get my paws on the game :D
Xellos Des'Vana Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 OK I admit with full responisibility I have nearly NO leagl games... Reason? If I bought all legit version I'd have about 10% of the games that I have cause they cost quite a lot around here... If I have a choice: 1) buy less but legit games and don't feel like a thief 2) buy illegal games (have most of those I like and experience them) and feel like a thief. (and btw: be unable to play some of these games online) 3) play nothing at all... I choose 2. Why? If I chose 1) I wouldn't even come here because I would have never thought about Neverwinter Nights... I have recently decided to buy less games choosing only the best of the best. But for most of my gaming life I haven't even seen a fully legit copy of a game Copy protection? As most people say it sucks, it doesn't wrok NEARLY AT ALL and only makes legit buyers life harder. Online activation? Not all people have the internet so it would only lower the amount of sold copies= financial losses for the company.
Memengwa Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 You don't even need to crack games. There are cd emulators out there, which copy the entire cds, with the protection and all. There are protections out there, that check if your computer has a cd emulator opened, but there is always way around it.. My biggest favorit, was a game I bought, that had so nitpicking protection on it, that it was impossible to play it.. And I had the legit copy...
Aponez Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Online activation is the way to go. It discourages large numbers of pirates, yet it doesn't require SafeDisc or any type of protection that forces me to play off disc, or slow down gameplay. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you sure Ender? Because I was playing yesterday Half-Life 2 and it was a pirate copy, I didn't buy the game. PRIUS FLAMMIS COMBUSTA QUAM ARMIS NUMANCIA VICTA
EnderAndrew Posted January 3, 2005 Posted January 3, 2005 I know of a friend who is having serious problems with a legally purchased copy of Civilization 3 thanks to SafeDisc 3. I told him to get a copy of CloneCD, and a no-cd patch.
Gorth Posted January 3, 2005 Posted January 3, 2005 Because I was playing yesterday Half-Life 2 and it was a pirate copy, I didn't buy the game. I was interested in that game until I was shown the content of the EULA (which I'm pretty sure is not shown on the front side of the box to the poor suckers who actually bought the game) In essence, you sign off all rights to privacy and allow Valve to gather any and all information they see fit, related to their game or not and use as they please. Things like that makes me think only twice about buying software that requires on-line registration (twice = skipping it or a no-activation crack) “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Diamond Posted January 3, 2005 Posted January 3, 2005 The truth is that no protection helps, while it is on client's side. 1) Copy protection? Not a problem. Everything can be ripped. Including DVDs. 2) Online activation? Change the program, so it doesn't require it. Windows XP cracks were released a week after the release of this OS itself ( ! ). The only type of protection which is effective is when you check the validity of serial number (or whatever can verify whether the game is legit) server side, like NWN1. So people who want to play online will buy it. Exceptions are the pirate servers (cracked) + pirate clients, so you can make a direct connection.
EnderAndrew Posted January 3, 2005 Posted January 3, 2005 That doesn't work with single player games. Most online games do a cd-key check already. Online activation (via phone or internet) seems to be the way to go.
Diamond Posted January 3, 2005 Posted January 3, 2005 That doesn't work with single player games. Most online games do a cd-key check already. Online activation (via phone or internet) seems to be the way to go. It is not the way to go. Because, when you activate a program, you do it on client side, and guess what? If the binary files are on client side, they can be changed, which means you can make the program to not perform an activation. 2) Online activation? Change the program, so it doesn't require it. Windows XP cracks were released a week after the release of this OS itself!.
Rosbjerg Posted January 3, 2005 Posted January 3, 2005 I live with a guy who does nothing but download films and games 24/7 .. the bastard .. so I usually check out what he has, and if I find a game to my appeal I buy it! I just think that the current 90-100$ that games cost here are a bit too expensive .. but I will always buy a game I play to support those who made it! Fortune favors the bald.
EnderAndrew Posted January 3, 2005 Posted January 3, 2005 I'm 99% sure there isn't a single program that successfully "cracks" Windows XP so it didn't have to be activated. You know why? The windows kernel checks itself to see if you have altered key registry entries, or disable the copy protection. It then warns you, and reenables copy protection. There are people who use corporate builds that don't have to be activated. There are people who image preactivated builds of Windows. There are ways to alter the installation .iso of Windows so that it never installs a copy-protected kernel. But if you disable the activation check, it just reenables itself. No copy-protection is fool proof. However, I believe the online-activations will dissuade more hackers than not since it will make many of them paranoid.
Diamond Posted January 3, 2005 Posted January 3, 2005 I'm 99% sure there isn't a single program that successfully "cracks" Windows XP so it didn't have to be activated. You know why? The windows kernel checks itself to see if you have altered key registry entries, or disable the copy protection. It then warns you, and reenables copy protection. There are people who use corporate builds that don't have to be activated. There are people who image preactivated builds of Windows. There are ways to alter the installation .iso of Windows so that it never installs a copy-protected kernel. But if you disable the activation check, it just reenables itself. No copy-protection is fool proof. However, I believe the online-activations will dissuade more hackers than not since it will make many of them paranoid. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OK, how about that. I had a legal copy of Windows XP that needed activation. Since I didn't have access to the Internet at this time, I asked my friend to get me a crack, and it did work (the one that replaces winlogon.exe and something else), WinXP never asked me for the activation again. And it was A WEEK AFTER the release of WinXP The point is: everything that tries to enable activation again can be disabled. Everything that enables that 'enable' thing back can be also disabled. Everything that enables that 'enable - enable' thing back can ALSO be disabled and so on. That means EVERYTHING that is on client side IS NOT fool-proof, including online registration and hardware locks. One more thing. In some countries (I will refer to Russia), piracy is in the culture, and you can see CDs with Windows XP or Office XP lying around the shelves (! with cracks included on CD !) (!! with quick manual on the back on how to apply the crack !!). I can tell you that in this country only around 1% of the software is legal. PS The most amusing story on the topic that I heard is that when one person was unable to activate a legal copy of Windows Server 2003, official representative of Microsoft's technical support in Russia suggested "Well... umm... probably you need to get a crack". Doh!
EnderAndrew Posted January 3, 2005 Posted January 3, 2005 Russia had pirated copies of Half Life 2 on the shelves a year ago when the source code leaked. India and China are horrible for piracy.
Diamond Posted January 3, 2005 Posted January 3, 2005 The funniest part is that if you try to sell pirated copies of some Russian software product in some CD store in Russia, the shop will get closed down in about a week :D. But recently many of Internet cafes and gaming clubs there got closed and some companies were charged because of using of pirate software (in big cities). That, however, didn't affect the stores with pirate software, which is still available to home users.
Memengwa Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 *coughs* You would be surprised to know how many "cracked" versions of XP are out there. And how easy it is to get them to work, and even get updates. Al you need is a valid key.
Guest Surlent Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 The article was well written. The writer also had good view point on the subject. I think publishers/devs should make more demos/shareware. Like said in the article, trying the product before buying is essential in comp biz and at least lowers the amount of legimate consumers pirating products (because they aren't sure if the software will run or not).
Kaftan Barlast Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Information wants to be free! yay! *pulls out 386 with 2600 baud modem and dials the nearest bbs* DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Ludozee Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 *coughs* You would be surprised to know how many "cracked" versions of XP are out there. And how easy it is to get them to work, and even get updates. Al you need is a valid key. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shhhht! :ph34r:
Diamond Posted January 10, 2005 Posted January 10, 2005 Regarding copy protection for NWN2... I hope it won't require CD to run. Anyone can bypass that, so what is the point in that? There is a CD-key for MP, so what is the point in troubling the player with shuffling their CDs?
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