Barlast on Bloodlines (SPOILERS GALORE)

[213374U]

This game gives me the impression that if you're Sabbat, you're more or less asking for Final Death in ANY case

Right, the key words here being 'this game'.

[Dark Wanderer]

This game gives me the impression that if you're Sabbat, you're more or less asking for Final Death in ANY case

Right, the key words here being 'this game'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Right, right. Redemption gives, IMHO, much the same impression through. Dunno what it is like being a Sabbat in a PnP game through... Is the Sabbat perhaps unfairly portrayed int he games?

[213374U]

Yeah, that's one of the things I didn't like about BL. Even though it's true that the Sabbat usually Embrace en-masse to get shock troops and loads of cannon fodder, the higher echelons of the sect and those carefully chosen for the Embrace have a longer unlife expectancy. Only the 'shovelheads' appear in the game, unless you count Andrei, and yes, those tend to die rather quickly and gruesomely. :ph34r:

[birdiedude]

I didn't like any of the endings. But when you sit back and think about it, it doesn't matter.

 

Vampires of the world of darkness have already faced their Gehenna in the official product line, so no matter what your character does he/she is more than likely dead anyway.

 

Overall the game was fun to play in between the periods I was staring at a loading screen. As much as I would have prefered better endings, fun is all that matters.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Another thing about the canon of the WoD, I just read the Anarch chapter of "Guide to the Camarilla" and there is a canon version of LA described there that definently does not match up with Bloodlines version. Not a single official WW character matches(even if IMO BLs version is better). So Troika are allowed to do that, but they are not allowed to alter the gehenna novels crap. gah.

 

 

Or Im completely wrong about this "WWs official canon forced BLs anticlimactic endings so they matched the Gehenna Novels" thing, and Troika designers thought it was really neat to end the game that way without tying up the ends(what caused the dead to rise from the graveyards for an example? must have been something extremely powerful)

[213374U]

what caused the dead to rise from the graveyards for an example? must have been something extremely powerful

That was most likely due to the influence of Caine.

[Dark Wanderer]

Yeah, that's one of the things I didn't like about BL. Even though it's true that the Sabbat usually Embrace en-masse to get shock troops and loads of cannon fodder, the higher echelons of the sect and those carefully chosen for the Embrace have a longer unlife expectancy. Only the 'shovelheads' appear in the game, unless you count Andrei, and yes, those tend to die rather quickly and gruesomely. :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I see. Well, should there ever be a sequel or something like that in which we're allowed to play as Sabbat, I hope we'll be choosen from those "higher echelons" then. Through I judge it as somewhat unlikely. More likely the character will be a "shovelhead" who survives far longer than any of his comrades, thus catching the eyes of those "higher echelons"...

 

I didn't like any of the endings.

 

Well, haven't gotten all of them yet, but I liked the Camarilla ending quite enough .

 

But when you sit back and think about it, it doesn't matter. Vampires of the world of darkness have already faced their Gehenna in the official product line, so no matter what your character does he/she is more than likely dead anyway.

 

Perhaps so, thorugh who knows? Shame that the "old" WoD has ended anyway..

[Child of Flame]

Yeah, to bad we'll probably never get to be of the Tziminsce clan....Fleshcrafting looked like it would've been a fun game mechanic.

[Dark Wanderer]

Yeah, to bad we'll probably never get to be of the Tziminsce clan....Fleshcrafting looked like it would've been a fun game mechanic. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe so. I'm not exactly sure how we'd get to use it, through.. Make our own monsters? Give ourselves new body parts (funny thing is that 've heard that Tzimisce fleshcraft themselves so often that after a few decades, they forget what they originally looked like )?

 

I dunno if we'd get to use Fleshcraft, but it's not too unlikely that we'll get to play as the Tzimisce clan someday. But how far off int he future that is, who can say...?

[213374U]

I think it would be extremely difficult to put some Disciplines in a PC game in all their PnP glory. Take Thaumaturgy for example. It was great in the PnP and in BL it's just another lame boss-killer. Auspex is even worse. I don't want to think what they would do with things like Necromancy and Vicissitude. :ph34r:

[Dark Wanderer]

I think it would be extremely difficult to put some Disciplines in a PC game in all their PnP glory.

 

Well, many PnP stuff are hard to get correct in games. Bloodlines is hardly the only exisiting example.

 

Take Thaumaturgy for example. It was great in the PnP and in BL it's just another lame boss-killer.

 

Well, never played the PnP game, but I throught Thaumaturgy was rather cool in the PC-game. Bloodshield and Blood boil especially.. :3.

 

Auspex is even worse.

 

Never played the PnP game so I don't really know the difference there too, through I heard that in the PnP game Auspex is useful to detect things about a person. But anyway, I agree that there is not much use for Auspex in the PC game - never put much XP into it...

 

I don't want to think what they would do with things like Necromancy and Vicissitude. :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, if you make a mess at the Giovanni mansion, you'll see the usage of some necromancy... I don't know much about the last discipline through so no comment on that.

[213374U]

Um, well. I'm no expert on all the possible uses of Necromancy but I'm pretty sure that none of them allowed you to turn perfectly good mortals into rotten zombies in the blink of an eye.

 

And Vicissitude is the 'true' name of the fleshcrafting Discipline used by the Tzimisce.

[Dark Wanderer]

Um, well. I'm no expert on all the possible uses of Necromancy but I'm pretty sure that none of them allowed you to turn perfectly good mortals into rotten zombies in the blink of an eye.

 

Well, they were corpses at that moment as far as I remember - at least, I only remember that Giovanni only being able to turn corpses of those guards I killed into zombies...

 

And Vicissitude is the 'true' name of the fleshcrafting Discipline used by the Tzimisce.

 

I see, thanks

[213374U]

Um, well. I'm no expert on all the possible uses of Necromancy but I'm pretty sure that none of them allowed you to turn perfectly good mortals into rotten zombies in the blink of an eye.

 

Well, they were corpses at that moment as far as I remember - at least, I only remember that Giovanni only being able to turn corpses of those guards I killed into zombies...

That's odd. As soon as I entered the house after beating the outside guards, Bruno came dashing through his conference room's door and started turning the guests into zombies. I may be wrong but I did't attack any of the guests, only the guards. But after a while there were no guests to be found anywhere, only a whole lot of brain-hungry zombies...

 

Anyway, AFAIK Necromancy is more of a conduit to the Underworld that a way of doing nasty things with corpses. I'm not sure it allows to create zombies in any way.

[Dark Wanderer]

That's odd. As soon as I entered the house after beating the outside guards, Bruno came dashing through his conference room's door and started turning the guests into zombies. I may be wrong but I did't attack any of the guests, only the guards. But after a while there were no guests to be found anywhere, only a whole lot of brain-hungry zombies...

 

Odd indeed. But then again I did not beat the guards on the outside, just those inside. The guests escaped in terror as far as I remember, Bruno came out and stared to raise the corpses of those I already killed... and that was all, more or less.

 

Anyway, AFAIK Necromancy is more of a conduit to the Underworld that a way of doing nasty things with corpses. I'm not sure it allows to create zombies in any way.

 

Well, I've heard similar things. Heard that Necromancy mostly isn't about doign stuff instantly, but rather over a long time. Heard that it can take days to turn a corpse into a zombie, not a few seconds, for example...

[Kaftan Barlast]

what caused the dead to rise from the graveyards for an example? must have been something extremely powerful

That was most likely due to the influence of Caine.

 

 

I, and most other people(especially those with no experience of V:tM PnP), would have liked for loose ends like that to be properly and thoroughly explained by the end of the game. The "jack and mysterious cabdriver" scene raised more questions than it answered and it seemed like a huge setup for a sequel which is really bad since there wont be one.

 

 

 

And regarding disciplines, it would have been extremely difficult to implement the PnP ones correctly into the game. Not to mention alot of them would have been completely unusable like most levels of Animalism

[Dark Wanderer]

I, and most other people(especially those with no experience of V:tM PnP), would have liked for loose ends like that to be properly and thoroughly explained by the end of the game. The "jack and mysterious cabdriver" scene raised more questions than it answered

 

Agreed.

 

and it seemed like a huge setup for a sequel which is really bad since there wont be one.

 

Who or what says that there won't be a sequel? Various interviews mentioned that a sequel isn't impossible through nothing is decided yet - and it all probably depends on how well Bloodlines sold, the feedback and then what White Wolf has to say in the matter.

 

And regarding disciplines, it would have been extremely difficult to implement the PnP ones correctly into the game. Not to mention alot of them would have been completely unusable like most levels of Animalism

 

Maybe so. I wouldn't know, never played the PnP game . But do of course realize that even with today's computer technology, some things are far from easy to put to reality in a game...

[Kaftan Barlast]

There cant be a direct sequel because WW has already detailed what happens later(up until the end of the WoD, right? havent read em myself) in the Gehenna novels and since Troika have to make their stories canon with the WW metaplot = no sequel. Of course they could make a prequel(hah) or a game set in the Vampire: Requiem setting.

[Dark Wanderer]

There cant be a direct sequel because WW has already detailed what happens later(up until the end of the WoD, right? havent read em myself) in the Gehenna novels and since Troika have to make their stories canon with the WW metaplot = no sequel.

 

I see. but wouldn't it be possible for them to make a sequel in Gehenna setting? haven't read that one myself, but as I've head it, it has quite a few scenarios, so would it be impossible for Troika to use one of those?

 

Of course they could make a prequel(hah)

 

Perhaps not a bad idea. I'd like to see a VtM game set in the Medieval times or even the Roman era anyway .

 

or a game set in the Vampire: Requiem setting.

 

I wonder if that's possible - I got the impression that the new WoD is still largely unfinished and still being buildt up in many aspects, thus I think it'd be kind of hard to make a game based on that for now.

[213374U]

I, and most other people(especially those with no experience of V:tM PnP), would have liked for loose ends like that to be properly and thoroughly explained by the end of the game. The "jack and mysterious cabdriver" scene raised more questions than it answered and it seemed like a huge setup for a sequel which is really bad since there wont be one.

 

 

 

And regarding disciplines, it would have been extremely difficult to implement the PnP ones correctly into the game. Not to mention alot of them would have been completely unusable like most levels of Animalism

You got that right. If anything I didn't like about the ending it was that. If there is something you don't quite understand, you are left hanging with the doubt. Again, I said 'that was more likely', because it's an educated guess. They could have explained a lot of things of the plot a little more indepth.

[Kaftan Barlast]

The lack of resolution and plethora of loose ends plays a big part in my opinion that the end was anticlimactic.

 

 

 

I see. but wouldn't it be possible for them to make a sequel in Gehenna setting? haven't read that one myself, but as I've head it, it has quite a few scenarios, so would it be impossible for Troika to use one of those?

 

I cant say, I havent read any of the gehenna material.

 

 

I'd like to see a VtM game set in the Medieval times or even the Roman era anyway.

 

Vampire: Dark Ages, forgot about that one. Id love the idea of an epic tale stretching from the days of ancient Summeria to the modern nights. It would take one hell of a designer to pull it together in a credible fashion though since the normal "hack tingz til youz get strongah and can kill da big boss" approach would be impossible. Well, not a designer actually, more a publisher that would be willing to go out on a limb for a game that would probably be far too complex for the regular DnD numbnuts.

 

But on the other hands, the modern nights is where its at. Its what the original idea was about and where the core of VtMs soul and appeal lies.

 

 

I wonder if that's possible - I got the impression that the new WoD is still largely unfinished and still being buildt up in many aspects, thus I think it'd be kind of hard to make a game based on that for now.

 

 

Thats the whole beauty of VR, a whole new world that isnt clogged with ten years worth of garbage addons that did more harm than good. A fresh start with limitless possibilities(no idiotic metaplot for game devs to adhere to). VR is a fresh restart that IMO holds everything that made Vt; great but in a purified form.

 

I know Justin Achilli has been talking about this for years(ever since the ancient days of 1998 when I was a neonate on the old old WW boards) and I think its good he finally got what he wanted.

[Dark Wanderer]

The lack of resolution and plethora of loose ends plays a big part in my opinion that the end was anticlimactic.

 

Agreed.

 

I cant say, I havent read any of the gehenna material.

 

Thne no further comment on this part before one of us have read soem gehenna material!

 

Vampire: Dark Ages, forgot about that one. Id love the idea of an epic tale stretching from the days of ancient Summeria to the modern nights. It would take one hell of a designer to pull it together in a credible fashion though since the normal "hack tingz til youz get strongah and can kill da big boss" approach would be impossible. Well, not a designer actually, more a publisher that would be willing to go out on a limb for a game that would probably be far too complex for the regular DnD numbnuts.

 

Hmm, dunno if I'd want to see it stretch over such a long time - or if it'd even be possible to do. One era/age is enough for me. It'd be cool, of course, if it was conneted to more than one era in the way you describe - kind of like in Redemption - but it'd be hard to pull off in a good way, I think...

 

But on the other hands, the modern nights is where its at. Its what the original idea was about and where the core of VtMs soul and appeal lies.

 

True enough, I suppose, the Modern Nights is the very core of VtM as far as I've seen...

 

Thats the whole beauty of VR, a whole new world that isnt clogged with ten years worth of garbage addons that did more harm than good. A fresh start with limitless possibilities(no idiotic metaplot for game devs to adhere to). VR is a fresh restart that IMO holds everything that made Vt; great but in a purified form.

 

Hmm, you've defintively got a point there. Well, if anyone'd be willing to try that, WW agree and they pull it off well enough, then it could be a good idea .

 

I know Justin Achilli has been talking about this for years(ever since the ancient days of 1998 when I was a neonate on the old old WW boards) and I think its good he finally got what he wanted.

 

Justin Achilli? Who's that?

[Kaftan Barlast]

Justin is the the big cheese of WW..

[Eclecticist]

I'll contribute by saying that the endings in V:tMB would not have worked in a PnP campaign, but were satisfactory in the PC game. I wasn't disappointed. It was an ending, a resolution, it is what you work towards: there is no point in being pissed about what it is, the discovery is half of the enjoyment.

[213374U]

Funny, I thought the endings would have been pretty fitting for a PnP V:tM campaign. Not for anyother game or setting, but definitely for V:tM.

 

Well, opposite viewpoints are what make these boards worth reading.