The Coordinator Posted December 20, 2004 Posted December 20, 2004 I agree.As for Battle for Middle Earth (and other new games on dvd and cd, like Rome:TW, FarCry, The Settlers etc): publishers now use a routine that will stop installing games if they detect virtual drives and programs such as nero, clone cd etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I find it real hard to believe that a game will refuse to install if it detects nero considering that Nero will try and stop you from copying protected/copyrighted content, and nero express comes free with most CD or DVD burners. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is riddiculous indeed! But such a copy protection is on several new game releases this year. The installer scans the registry and denies installing (you get a warning message) if you have cd burn programms installed (Rome:Total War, The Settlers5 etc). That happens with several virus scanners as well. The damn thing is that even many honorable customers return their games then. Then who buys a new drive just for this?
Ludozee Posted December 20, 2004 Posted December 20, 2004 It is riddiculous indeed! But such a copy protection is on several new game releases this year. The installer scans the registry and denies installing (you get a warning message) if you have cd burn programms installed (Rome:Total War, The Settlers5 etc). That happens with several virus scanners as well. The damn thing is that even many honorable customers return their games then. Then who buys a new drive just for this? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OMG!!! They can't do this! I'm pretty sure it's even illegal to do such a thing in Holland, because in similar cases (can't remember what exactly, I think it was copy protection on CD's) people went to court and won.
The Coordinator Posted December 20, 2004 Posted December 20, 2004 It is riddiculous indeed! But such a copy protection is on several new game releases this year. The installer scans the registry and denies installing (you get a warning message) if you have cd burn programms installed (Rome:Total War, The Settlers5 etc). That happens with several virus scanners as well. The damn thing is that even many honorable customers return their games then. Then who buys a new drive just for this? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OMG!!! They can't do this! I'm pretty sure it's even illegal to do such a thing in Holland, because in similar cases (can't remember what exactly, I think it was copy protection on CD's) people went to court and won. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That
213374U Posted December 20, 2004 Posted December 20, 2004 I agree.As for Battle for Middle Earth (and other new games on dvd and cd, like Rome:TW, FarCry, The Settlers etc): publishers now use a routine that will stop installing games if they detect virtual drives and programs such as nero, clone cd etc. Yes, Bloodlines uses that protection, apart from the standard SafeDisk. StarForce it's called. It's been cracked already, though. I downloaded a nifty little tool that hides the virtual unit's drivers from Windows and thus, from SF as well. Since then I can happily play Bloodlines without needing the CD. No protection lasts too long these days. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
TSAdmiral Posted December 20, 2004 Posted December 20, 2004 I myself am no longer using my Battle for Middle Earth DVD. Personally, I'm beginning to hate the disc with a passion. As of now, I'm playing it with an image in a drive emulation program. Should KotOR2 come out in DVD format, ensure it doesn't have copy protection that is so dense and pointless it discourages legit users from using it in legal ways. I think it's completely stupid to force actual buyers to use pirate-like methods just to get their $50 worth.
EnderAndrew Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 I don't think that's a problem with DVD's in general, but that particular game on DVD, or at least your copy of it.
TSAdmiral Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 I don't think that's a problem with DVD's in general, but that particular game on DVD, or at least your copy of it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree, it's more than likely that it's EA's copy protection schemes messing with people's drives. I don't blame the DVD format itself, but EA. That's why I hope KotOR2 has a more accessible way to play the game.
The Coordinator Posted December 23, 2004 Posted December 23, 2004 I bought VtM:B. But that did not work with my dvd drive. Only in the cd burner. 3cds pressed into a slim dvd box-just as KotOR1! While the cds in my KotOR1 box are very loose, in the VtM:B box they are pressed in there so hard that they almost broke while trying to get them out. Man, I want *1* dvd!
Indalecio Posted December 24, 2004 Posted December 24, 2004 consoles exist solely as idiot entertainment for children No thats just Gamecube. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not so. You're missing some good games if you think that.
EnderAndrew Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 The XBox and PS2 each have ten-twenty good games for every good Gamecube game. The GC does have a few good games, but overall it's not that great of a system. And several of the GC games expect you to link a SP.
Darque Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 Nintendo shot itself in the foot with the gamecube. If they don't correct the problems they've created for themselves, I see Nintendo going third-party only like Sega did.
Darque Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 Oh, and on topic.... CDs please, DVDs are still too fragile a medium as far as I'm concerned.
213374U Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 Oh, and on topic.... CDs please, DVDs are still too fragile a medium as far as I'm concerned. How so? If you damage your single DVD you aren't any more screwed than if you damage any of the 4/5 CDs of a game. I only use the original CDs/DVDs for setup purposes. Once that's done, I always go for No-CD patches to avoid any further risk of damaging my originals. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Baneblade Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 How so? If you damage your single DVD you aren't any more screwed than if you damage any of the 4/5 CDs of a game. I only use the original CDs/DVDs for setup purposes. Once that's done, I always go for No-CD patches to avoid any further risk of damaging my originals. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> aye, we belives ye "If at first you don't succeed... So much for skydiving." - Henry Youngman.
213374U Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 Ok, you got me. I don't do it to keep my originals safe. I do it out of sheer laziness. I really hate having to go fetch this and that CD each time I want to play. :"> - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
The Coordinator Posted December 29, 2004 Posted December 29, 2004 Oh, and on topic.... CDs please, DVDs are still too fragile a medium as far as I'm concerned. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HA! You can
Worthgarian Posted December 30, 2004 Author Posted December 30, 2004 Oh, and on topic.... CDs please, DVDs are still too fragile a medium as far as I'm concerned. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't understand why DVDs would be more fragile. The protective layer on DVDs should be trice times thicker than the one we find on CDs. That means that a DVD media should be a LOT more reistant to sratches than CDs (in theory it woudl approximately be 3^2 = 9 times more resistant). Also on DVDs that contain DATA there is a lot more than usual redundancy (CRCs) in the information to make sure that if there was unreadable bits that they could be replaced with software. I think there a tolerance of an average of about 10% of innacurate bits that could be replaced on a DVD while on a CD there is a tolerance of less than 1%. Of course that doesn't apply to the DVD VIDEO because they have to be displayed in real time. Also for the recordable medias, the DVD-R's substrate should have a life time of about 2.5 times the CD-R's (average CD-R have a lifetime between 10 and 15 years). But that doesn't apply to pressed CDs and DVDs that should have an estimated lifetime of about 75 to 100 years. Also in order to reduce CDs cost they often put the reflective surface under the CD labels which in case you would scratch the label it would make the CD unreadable while most DVDs have the reflective surface separated from the label by a protective layer. Which means that you could peal the label of most DVDs and not remove the reflective surface (aluminium foil) at the same time. Also because this reflective surface is not in contact with the air it is a lot less likely to corrode. Aluminium is not a materia lthat easily corrodes but it does happen with time in a minor way that can be significative considering the size of a bit on the media. Would someone be kind enough to explain to me why DVDs are more fragile than CDs please ?
EnderAndrew Posted December 30, 2004 Posted December 30, 2004 DVD's have only been around like 8 years. They're stable. And while they don't handle scratches as well as CD's, DVD players don't scratch discs the way that cheap CD players do. I have tons of CDs that won't read or play. I don't have a single DVD that won't play. And that includes my PS2/XBox DVD's which get a lot of use. DVD's are not fragile as media.
Kyle_Helray Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 They should do what the Sims 2 did: both, they had a cd version and a dvd version But I think they should just do it in dvd because of the advanvements in technology and eventually a game is going to push all gamers to upgrade and throw away the cds, kind of like those big floppy disks that didn't hold very much, 6" floppys or something like that.
Worthgarian Posted January 6, 2005 Author Posted January 6, 2005 They should do what the Sims 2 did:both, they had a cd version and a dvd version But I think they should just do it in dvd because of the advanvements in technology and eventually a game is going to push all gamers to upgrade and throw away the cds, kind of like those big floppy disks that didn't hold very much, 6" floppys or something like that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is 5.25" floppys you are refering about. The double sided ones could store 1.2 mb each, 600 kb for the single sided. 3.5" floppys would store 720 kb and 1.44 mb for the single and double sided version respectively. DVD5 are like thick CDs that can store 6 or 7 Cds. DVDs are thincker because they are more portected against scratches because the information being written smaller, a scratch is relatively more important regarding data analysis. Dual layer DVDs, DVD9 are more interesting because they can store up to 12 or 13 full CDs. I think that for a game of 3 CDs or more there should also be a DVD version. I think releasing a game on more than 6 CDs is exagerated so for 6 cds and up I would consider making only a DVD version if I was a distributor.
Fearless_Jedi Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 Very good poll, probably the most useful I have ever read! Putting games on DVDs is finally starting up with the Sims 2 and HL2 and I totally agree that this must be done cause changing disks really sucks. "Some people are always trying to iceskate uphill." Blade(Wesley Snipes) from the movie Blade. Edited for content "The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." - Sigmund Freud
EUIX Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I can't tell you how much of a pain in the ass it is to try to install a multi disk game in Linux with Cedega/Winex emulation. "For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretences- either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us- and make a long speech which would not be believed; and in return we hope that you, instead of thinking to influence us by saying that you did not join the Lacedaemonians, although their colonists, or that you have done us no wrong, will aim at what is feasible, holding in view the real sentiments of us both; since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."
Aponez Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 CD's please, I prefer 5 CD's before a single DVD, the DVD is too easy to damage, is more fragile than a CD PRIUS FLAMMIS COMBUSTA QUAM ARMIS NUMANCIA VICTA
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