A PC release on DVD ?

[EnderAndrew]

Splinter Cell, which you're praising for it's complexity, was developed for the console and ported to PC.

 

I just thought you should know.

[iamthelorax]

Well, I concede that, and had forgotten it was so.

 

Regardless, I still use at least 15 buttons on most games, and I play mostly fps. IMHO, CRPG's are the most complex games out there, and the controls have to be simplified for consoles, at least for KotOR and apparently Morrowind. SC:PT's only control consolidation was scroll menus for actions and weapons/items, the latter of which was annoying and probably left over from console controls.

 

I have never heard of a Console to PC Port being simplified, but have heard so of PC to Console ports.

 

$300 for the Box and $200 for a Mod is a lot, but pales in comparison to a good gaming PC, which costs well over a K MORE than a non-game PC, and has to be replaced or heavily upgraded more often than a console.

 

And the mouse is still vastly superior for fps, and necessary for any RTS. If I thought Halo's multiplayer was as engaging as millions of people seem to think it is, and they hadn't defected to Halo2, then I might just buy Halo PC just for the satisfaction of whooping people who are trying to make do on micro-joysticks. (Assuming PC's can actually play XBL on Halo as I was led to believe). I'd even say that the mouse is necessary for third person shooters like SC if you plan to do any headshots. The mouse also makes control smoother and thus less visually grating.

 

Mostly though, I just couldn't deal with the crap resolution. If you could play consoles at 1080i/p it would be fine, but somehow I doubt that's possible, even if you turn off all the effects that make such a resolution worthwhile.

 

Even XBox2 or whatever probably won't be better than the best contemporary PC hardware. It will be cheaper but only b/c M$ is planning to get their money back on game licensing, so you probably pay as much in the end if the hardware is comparable.

 

Consoles get more titles, and mostly sooner, but I don't think that allows them to overcome their shortcomings.

[The Coordinator]

@Ender Wiggin

 

Morrowind got ported exactly to the XBox. It's just like it's PC counterpart, and that's a fairly complex game.  I've never seen a tactical RPG on the PC, yet they are quite complex.

 

--They were developed simultaneously.--

 

 

 

The fact remains that most PC releases can be played almost entirely with a mouse, while XBox controls for most game are far more complex than what I see on PC releases.

 

--Absolutely. Though I wish that console ports would allow for a game/joypad implementation as well. Only a few games like FFvii/viii, pro evo soccer, and other s did that. While using the move keys on a gamepad I am faster. You can do everything with your thumb only. The pc

[EnderAndrew]

FPS shooters are generally far better on the PC. And there are many great PC titles that are never released on console.

 

I'm not dogging PC's. I just don't understand how people continue to believe that consoles exist solely as idiot entertainment for children. That really isn't the case.

[Darth Ni]

consoles exist solely as idiot entertainment for children

 

No thats just Gamecube.

[EnderAndrew]

Maybe so.

[Azazis]

To the topic on hand: I love my HL2 DVD. 6 cds sound dreadfull I would love a YSL DVD. yes plz

[DSLuke]

Why would someone vote NO, even though my PC has a Dvd drive???

 

 

 

 

I tell you this place is curzed

[Worthgarian]

Why would someone vote NO, even though my PC has a Dvd drive???  

 

I don't know but a non-negligible percentage of people did vote that. I am very curious to understand what reasons made them vote for this option.

[TSAdmiral]

I may be able to explain that. Though I may not have their same views, I do have some qualms with the single DVD game that I have bought.

 

I don't know if the copy protection for DVDs are the same as the CD versions or not, but I have the DVD of Battle for Middle Earth and that disc is giving my drive a hell of a time. Everytime I stick that disc in, it takes literally several (you read that right) minutes for the disc to detect and boot. I'm assuming EA pressed in forty feet of copy protection onto that one DVD. When I leave the disc in my computer and restart it, it adds several minutes to my boot time. As well, if I wish to play the game without resorting to shady means, it also takes several full minutes for it to spin up so that I can play. Before it spins and finally reads, it just "clicks around" forever. It's TERRIBLY annoying.

 

Whether my problem is with EA only or if all DVDs would have similar copy protection I don't know.

[The Coordinator]

Indeed, copy protection is annoying, and in the end there will always be workarounds.

Many drives have problems to read and/or install the games. When I install KotOR from my dvd drive it produces a fatal error on disc 3 and aborts after 84% ...

Though I don

[Worthgarian]

I may be able to explain that. Though I may not have their same views, I do have some qualms with the single DVD game that I have bought.

 

I don't know if the copy protection for DVDs are the same as the CD versions or not, but I have the DVD of Battle for Middle Earth and that disc is giving my drive a hell of a time. Everytime I stick that disc in, it takes literally several (you read that right) minutes for the disc to detect and boot. I'm assuming EA pressed in forty feet of copy protection onto that one DVD. When I leave the disc in my computer and restart it, it adds several minutes to my boot time. As well, if I wish to play the game without resorting to shady means, it also takes several full minutes for it to spin up so that I can play. Before it spins and finally reads, it just "clicks around" forever. It's TERRIBLY annoying.

 

Whether my problem is with EA only or if all DVDs would have similar copy protection I don't know.

 

Thank you TSAdmiral for your comment. You have a point. Even though it shouldn't be this way and that we shouldn't biase our opinion on so few experiences, because games released on DVD are considered to be destined for such a little market share the producers don't usually polish them as it should and I agree that a lot of DVD releases aren't even fonctional on a lot of computers. I would however, based on my many previous purchases, expect Lucasarts to put a particular attention to their production and make sureit doesn't suffer such problems.

 

I had the same frustrations with Far Cry on DVD. Ubisoft actually suggested that we would have windows copy the DVD's content onto our hard drive and then use a no-cd to play the game until they would find a fix to it. What happens, during the game's production, is that the devs actually make a non-protected edition of the game that works flawlessly on any CD or DVD drive and then the producer sends the game to Safedisk or Securom and for hundred of thousands of dollars they apply their generic copy protection they developped and they don't test it too hard afterward (maybe they just give it a run on on of their PC since they need to rush the game out so that it can be produced on time for the release date) and then they send the copy protected copy to the editor so that millions of copies of this disk can be made and put onto the shelves. It is only afterward that someone tries the game and find out that the copy protection made it incompatible with 80% of the PC hardware. Typical.

 

Indeed, copy protection is annoying, and in the end there will always be workarounds.

Many drives have problems to read and/or install the games. When I install KotOR from my dvd drive it produces a fatal error on disc 3 and aborts after 84% ...

Though I don

[Naso]

Only dvd game I've gotten so far is UT2k4, but didn't have any problems with that, though oddly enough it doesn't require the actual disk to play....

[EnderAndrew]

I just got an early christmas present, a $65 16x dual-layer DVD-burner.

 

Yep. It's horribly expensive to wake up and smell the 21st century. In case people missed it, Sony has started to sell new HD-DVD burners and players.

[Craftsman]

How bout that new format. Blue ray or something.

[DSLuke]

How bout that new format. Blue ray or something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep that for KOTOR 3

[The Coordinator]

I think probably it is your third game CD that is defective. At least when you have a working DVD the game is fully working. With a CD install you might have 4 out of 5 cds working which is a good ratio but still the whole game is currupted and can't work. You might try to have it replaced. Or use the P2P network to replace this CD by yourself since Lucasarts rely so much on pirates.

 

 

1) Hmm, could be... but I guess it

[Naso]

I miss floppies. I remember getting X-Wing on 5 floppies for x-mas. Funny thing was, way back when, they actually made games that worked.... Imagine that.... You can say it was easier back then, but coding the different hardware paths manually wasn't exactly the best.

[TSAdmiral]

Agreed, despite bad reactions to the ending, I'm looking forward to the overall experience. However, I would seriously lose enthusiasm if the PC version is riddled with issues.

 

Regarding my Battle for Middle Earth DVD, I've done some research and it surely isn't only my problem. There are many players with many issues, either with their discs not being detected quickly and properly (like me) or even worse, they can't even install or play it.

 

As far as I know, there will be two DVD replacement technologies. One is known as Blu-ray, which is more or less something Sony developed. HD-DVD is the other format, the one which the DVD Forum supports. Blu-ray, according to the technical specs, is superior to HD-DVD in every way, from storage to pure toughness. From what I hear, TDK developed some form of protection in which even permanent markers couldn't scratch a Blu-ray disc. As well, I believe Blu-ray can scale all the way up to 100 GB if they desired. I think HD-DVD is less than half of that.

 

The Blu-ray vs HD-DVD issue may not be a good thing. The DVD format is as successful as it is precisely because it was one single universal format touted by all as the latest technology. We could wind up with another Beta (Sony) vs VHS (JVC) war (which JVC won obviously). This may lead to people who get screwed over for buying one particularly format. Movie companies are now taking sides over the two formats. If it ends up that we will be unable to see specific movies simply because companies are taking sides, this will be a great blow to the consumer.

 

As well, this format war will have a massive battleground in the next-gen consoles. Blu-ray is technically the superior format, although I don't know if HD-DVD has anything that it does better. It's entirely assured that future consoles will act more like "entertainment systems" with the ability to play back movies and audio.

 

Should Microsoft choose to use HD-DVD, they will be competing against Sony's PS3 Blu-ray. Sony has a trump card up its sleeve. The current generation of consoles is so much more successful over the last generation because improved graphics are drawing more people into gaming. As of now, about 73 million PS2s are in domestic homes and this number is only increasing daily. Sony owns several movie companies that can transfer their products over to the Blu-ray format. Plus, with the PS3 launch, huge amounts of people will have an installed base of THE ultimate Blu-ray player, whereas HD-DVD will struggle to find a foothold. If Microsoft chooses to use HD-DVD instead, they may be alienating lots of potential customers. But should they use Blu-ray, then they will be forced to pay royalties and other fees to Sony.

 

How these next-generation equipment will effect PC is unknown. I personally hate format wars, as ultimately the consumer is the loser. I suspect the PC will again be using the backwater format. To this day, when consoles have used DVDs for years, the PC's library of new releases are vastly CDs. If the format wars continue, then it is entirely possible that at best, PC publishers will switch to DVD and no more. PCs require standardization. If alienating one group is the consequence, most will choose not to do so. In fact, us PC users just may be see CD releases well into the future.

[Ludozee]

I'm not going to read four pages of posts, so I don't know if someone brought this up already, but here its is: Isn't 1 DVD cheaper then 4 CD's anyway? So that would be an obvious choice if I were LA...

[Mole]

I wish all game makers would get with the times and put all games on DVD-ROM... CD-ROM's are okay, but it's annoying when you buy a game that comes on 5 CD-ROM's (Half-Life 2) that takes forever and a day to install... Though they did make HL2 in DVD-ROM version that came with the collector's edition, but I didn't feel like spending $80 on the collector's edition.

[The Coordinator]

Agreed, despite bad reactions to the ending, I'm looking forward to the overall experience. However, I would seriously lose enthusiasm if the PC version is riddled with issues.

 

Regarding my Battle for Middle Earth DVD, I've done some research and it surely isn't only my problem. There are many players with many issues, either with their discs not being detected quickly and properly (like me) or even worse, they can't even install or play it.

 

As far as I know, there will be two DVD replacement technologies. One is known as Blu-ray, which is more or less something Sony developed. HD-DVD is the other format, the one which the DVD Forum supports. Blu-ray, according to the technical specs, is superior to HD-DVD in every way, from storage to pure toughness. From what I hear, TDK developed some form of protection in which even permanent markers couldn't scratch a Blu-ray disc. As well, I believe Blu-ray can scale all the way up to 100 GB if they desired. I think HD-DVD is less than half of that.

 

The Blu-ray vs HD-DVD issue may not be a good thing. The DVD format is as successful as it is precisely because it was one single universal format touted by all as the latest technology. We could wind up with another Beta (Sony) vs VHS (JVC) war (which JVC won obviously). This may lead to people who get screwed over for buying one particularly format. Movie companies are now taking sides over the two formats. If it ends up that we will be unable to see specific movies simply because companies are taking sides, this will be a great blow to the consumer.

 

As well, this format war will have a massive battleground in the next-gen consoles. Blu-ray is technically the superior format, although I don't know if HD-DVD has anything that it does better. It's entirely assured that future consoles will act more like "entertainment systems" with the ability to play back movies and audio.

 

Should Microsoft choose to use HD-DVD, they will be competing against Sony's PS3 Blu-ray. Sony has a trump card up its sleeve. The current generation of consoles is so much more successful over the last generation because improved graphics are drawing more people into gaming. As of now, about 73 million PS2s are in domestic homes and this number is only increasing daily. Sony owns several movie companies that can transfer their products over to the Blu-ray format. Plus, with the PS3 launch, huge amounts of people will have an installed base of THE ultimate Blu-ray player, whereas HD-DVD will struggle to find a foothold. If Microsoft chooses to use HD-DVD instead, they may be alienating lots of potential customers. But should they use Blu-ray, then they will be forced to pay royalties and other fees to Sony.

 

How these next-generation equipment will effect PC is unknown. I personally hate format wars, as ultimately the consumer is the loser. I suspect the PC will again be using the backwater format. To this day, when consoles have used DVDs for years, the PC's library of new releases are vastly CDs. If the format wars continue, then it is entirely possible that at best, PC publishers will switch to DVD and no more. PCs require standardization. If alienating one group is the consequence, most will choose not to do so. In fact, us PC users just may be see CD releases well into the future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree.

As for Battle for Middle Earth (and other new games on dvd and cd, like Rome:TW, FarCry, The Settlers etc): publishers now use a routine that will stop installing games if they detect virtual drives and programs such as nero, clone cd etc.

[Worthgarian]

As far as I know, there will be two DVD replacement technologies. One is known as Blu-ray, which is more or less something Sony developed. HD-DVD is the other format, the one which the DVD Forum supports. Blu-ray, according to the technical specs, is superior to HD-DVD in every way, from storage to pure toughness. From what I hear, TDK developed some form of protection in which even permanent markers couldn't scratch a Blu-ray disc. As well, I believe Blu-ray can scale all the way up to 100 GB if they desired. I think HD-DVD is less than half of that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Blu-rays (25 Gb per layer) can store up to 50 Gb on a dual-layer BD-DL-R disks. If they write one both faces on the disk, which would mean a disk nearly twice as thick and that needs to be flipped to read to other side's content (or the Blu-ray drive would need to have reading heads (the Blue LED lasers) both over and under which would be expensive) a disk could hold 100 Gb just as the DVD (4.5 GB per layer) can store 17 Gb with dual layer and disk flipping. Blu-ray could possibly eventually store up to 200 Gb according to the press releases. Unfortunately those 200 Gb media probably would not be compatible with the first Blu-rays readers. HD-DVD shouldn't hold more than 30 Gb per sides.

 

For those who are unfamiliar with the optical media's evolution here is a quick summary:

 

In the 1980s the Vynil record companies were looking for a numeric support that would not worn out by being read but they didn't wanted to have to replace all thoses presses they used to print the Vynil disks. They inveted the CD-Rom that could be printed using the same press mecanism by stamping on acrylic a numeric pattern and then pit an aluminium foil on top of it before covering the disk with protective plastic. At first the CD-rom was meant to be as large as a Vynil disk but it wouldn't sell under this form, the actuel cshape proved to sell a lot better. How it works is that a Inrared laser LED at 45 degr

[EnderAndrew]

I agree.

As for Battle for Middle Earth (and other new games on dvd and cd, like Rome:TW, FarCry, The Settlers etc): publishers now use a routine that will stop installing games if they detect virtual drives and programs such as nero, clone cd etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find it real hard to believe that a game will refuse to install if it detects nero considering that Nero will try and stop you from copying protected/copyrighted content, and nero express comes free with most CD or DVD burners.

[TSAdmiral]

I agree with your stance on Blu-ray Worthgarian. Blu-ray is technically a superior format but some manufacturers are taking sides on the HD-DVD side purely for cost efficiency. The end result is a format war and increased confusion for the consumer.

 

History has shown that oftentimes, it's cost efficiency that wins over technology. Sony has lost their superior Beta format to the VHS format of JVC. I do not know the specifics of the two types, only that Beta was techically better.

 

Just to support the Blu-ray argument, that would be the only format that could fit the LotR movies onto one disk. It would be impossible to fit a high-definition version of The Return of the King for example onto an HD-DVD. Ironically, didn't New Line support the HD-DVD format?

 

As far as PC users go, if a format war happens then we will ultimately get the shaft again in storage medium. The DVD format has been available forever and only now are we barely beginning the transition to the DVD. To this day, the vast majority of releases are still CD. This is due mainly because computers require standardization, and since people are still using older machines or older drives, everyone suffers because the only solution is the least common denominator. I predict both of these formats will likely not be used on PCs for years to come. If it took so long for us to transfer from one universally accepted format to the next, how long will it take to transfer to two competing formats? Even today we are experiencing problems with DVD-R vs DVD+R, and those are the same medium! Considering the vast differences between Blu-ray and HD-DVD, it would be impossible to support both formats.

 

Personally I hope Blu-ray wins out. I think Sony will attempt to obtain a huge immediate foothold with the PS3. By utilizing its own film studios and partners who have sided with Blu-ray, they can effectively and immediately penetrate an extensive foothold in the next-gen market.