Rosbjerg Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 Exar Kun is the coolest character of the entire EU and my favourite! Even Bastila is number 2. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To each his own. I think he's little more than a thug with delusions of grandeur, and the way he was forced to accept the dark side was lame. Ulic Qel-Droma was a much deeper and far more credible character, even despite all that Krath venom crap. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I found Qel-Droma to be a great character as well, he just didn't have that "oompf" that i think exar had. i thought the way they made him accept the dark side was cool, bricks were crushin him and he needed the power of the dark side (also somewhat showing how weak the light side was) to lift them. either that or death. and if u don't think exar is coo who else is left? aint too many left in the way of the sith that were as badass as exar, maybe save bane or palpatine... nur i also saw the trailer for the ep3 vid game and thought anakin was badass as well, can't wait to see... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well the LS was blocked from him .. So it had nothing to the with the weakness of the LS, and in the end he was defeated, showing how weak the DS is! but nonetheless I think Exar Kun had a very interesting fall, and you have to admire the power he wielded, even though he sounded alittle too strong for my taste! I would have to agree with Laozi (yet again, its becoming a bad habit hehe) I thoughy Ulic Qel-Droma had a better story .. But I didn't mind the Krath that much.. Fortune favors the bald.
MASTER Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 kun sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/B]
mista_me Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 I found that Ulic was one of my favorite characters, but I kinda didn't like how the sieres ended. But Exar was a total Badass, he took down almost everyone, he was so cool! :D Where is the bell, wait for the bell, k i need the bell, wait the bell! Ding bonda dong! Ding bonda dong! Ding bonda dong! Ding bonda dong! Kazic wants you.... to join the pinkside!
MASTER Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 name a sith lord that did not almost take every body down.
Laozi Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 Ya thats what I hated about Kun. Its so self celebratory to make your character in someone else world as powerful as Exar. Plus its alot easier just to make him superpowerful instead of depending on good writing and good plots. But some people just eat that stuff up People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
MASTER Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 every time the sith rise the dwendle the jedi to five or ten and the jedi win. it is called basic star wars story.
mista_me Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 name a sith lord that did not almost take every body down. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hmmm lets say uhh dukkoo cuz i dont like him! :D Where is the bell, wait for the bell, k i need the bell, wait the bell! Ding bonda dong! Ding bonda dong! Ding bonda dong! Ding bonda dong! Kazic wants you.... to join the pinkside!
Nur Ab Sal Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 Qel Droma maybe had a better story but thanks only to "Redemption" comic that added great depth to that character. Earlier he was just a weak traitor: he betrayed Jedi Order, betrayed Nomi and her love and in the end betrayed Exar Kun who was his true friend and risked everything to save him in the senate. Without Redemption Ulic wouldn't be so interesting! HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.
Rosbjerg Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 Qel Droma maybe had a better story but thanks only to "Redemption" comic that added great depth to that character. Earlier he was just a weak traitor: he betrayed Jedi Order, betrayed Nomi and her love and in the end betrayed Exar Kun who was his true friend and risked everything to save him in the senate. Without Redemption Ulic wouldn't be so interesting! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah I guess thats true! guess some of those characters we connect the most with is those who are redemeed! Maybe because we like to believe that if we ever make a mistake we want to be able to redeem ourself and be forgiven! It seems that way to me .. but then its always easier to understand an evil guy turned good, than a good turned pure evil! Fortune favors the bald.
213374U Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 Ok. But Ulic had an excuse to fall to the dark side even without that lame venom. He was consumed by rage of the death of his master, and he had been led to believe the light was not powerful enough to deal with the Krath. On the other hand, Exar was cut off from the light side of the Force, not once, but twice, compelling him to turn to the dark to save his life. Where's the dark in that? I was led to believe that darksiders embraced the dark willingly, and precisely that's what made them evil. Exar had no choice, thus being not evil, but a sorry ass victim. I don't think he was that powerful, anyway. He managed to beat his old master, which was using a wooden staff, and he needed a lightstaff to do that. Impressive, no doubt. The only Jedi Knight he ever faced in lightsaber combat was Ulic, which he couldn't best. That and the fact that his dark side powers were in great measure granted by his Sith amulets don't speak very highly of Exar's abilities. So much for the greatest Sith lord ever... - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Fardragon Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 Exar Kun could have chosen to die. cf conversation between Peter Pettigrew and Sirius Black in Prisoner of Azkaban. Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!
213374U Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 cf conversation between Peter Pettigrew and Sirius Black in Prisoner of Azkaban. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree, he could have chosen to die. Sacrifices are not unheard of in the SW universe. But there's a difference between sacrifice and meaningless death. Exar's death would have served no purpose at all, so there was no reason for him to die. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Rosbjerg Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 cf conversation between Peter Pettigrew and Sirius Black in Prisoner of Azkaban. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree, he could have chosen to die. Sacrifices are not unheard of in the SW universe. But there's a difference between sacrifice and meaningless death. Exar's death would have served no purpose at all, so there was no reason for him to die. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well in the grand scale his death would have prevented his fall and the death of ALOT of people .. so not entirely meaningless! But I think the idea of making Exar afraid to die (fear leads to the dark side bla bla) was a way to underline his eventual fall! I think that was a good way to "justify" his fall to the dark side .. as he said "im sorry master (can't remember) I want to live" as he pulled his lightsaber to him with the dark side .. although he should not have been so overpowered in the end though, that was the only thing about Exars story I didn't like .. Fortune favors the bald.
213374U Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 well in the grand scale his death would have prevented his fall and the death of ALOT of people .. so not entirely meaningless! But I think the idea of making Exar afraid to die (fear leads to the dark side bla bla) was a way to underline his eventual fall! I think that was a good way to "justify" his fall to the dark side .. as he said "im sorry master (can't remember) I want to live" as he pulled his lightsaber to him with the dark side .. although he should not have been so overpowered in the end though, that was the only thing about Exars story I didn't like .. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's like saying that Hitler should have let himself be killed in WW1 because that would have prevented WW2. In retrospect, it's true. In retrospect too, if Obi-Wan had let Maul cut him down, Anakin would have never been trained, and therefore, the Jedi would have not been wiped out. There was no way for Exar to know what awaited him. At that point, and as far as he could think, his death was meaningless. It's no wonder Exar was afraid, the only thing that stood between him and certain death was the dark side. Jedi don't succumb to fear because they have the Force to reassure themselves. How do you think Obi-Wan would react if facing Vader he suddenly found he was cut off from the light side? He let himself be killed because he knew he would become 'more powerful than you can imagine'. Exar didn't choose to embrace the evil or give in to his passions. He just chose to live, because there would be no gain from his death. That's what anyone would have done in those circumstances. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Fardragon Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 If Anakin had died or not been trained Sidious would have found another tool to destroy the jedi, possibly one that didn't destroy him in the end. Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!
213374U Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 If Anakin had died or not been trained Sidious would have found another tool to destroy the jedi, possibly one that didn't destroy him in the end. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's hard to believe considering Anakin was 'the most gifted Jedi I've ever seen'. He wasn't the chosen one for nothing, you know. Any other 'tool' could have been dealt with by Mace Windu or some other master. But that's not the point. What I mean is that decisions can't be made thinking that choosing life over death is going to destroy the universe. That's plain dumb. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Rosbjerg Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 well in the grand scale his death would have prevented his fall and the death of ALOT of people .. so not entirely meaningless! But I think the idea of making Exar afraid to die (fear leads to the dark side bla bla) was a way to underline his eventual fall! I think that was a good way to "justify" his fall to the dark side .. as he said "im sorry master (can't remember) I want to live" as he pulled his lightsaber to him with the dark side .. although he should not have been so overpowered in the end though, that was the only thing about Exars story I didn't like .. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's like saying that Hitler should have let himself be killed in WW1 because that would have prevented WW2. In retrospect, it's true. In retrospect too, if Obi-Wan had let Maul cut him down, Anakin would have never been trained, and therefore, the Jedi would have not been wiped out. There was no way for Exar to know what awaited him. At that point, and as far as he could think, his death was meaningless. It's no wonder Exar was afraid, the only thing that stood between him and certain death was the dark side. Jedi don't succumb to fear because they have the Force to reassure themselves. How do you think Obi-Wan would react if facing Vader he suddenly found he was cut off from the light side? He let himself be killed because he knew he would become 'more powerful than you can imagine'. Exar didn't choose to embrace the evil or give in to his passions. He just chose to live, because there would be no gain from his death. That's what anyone would have done in those circumstances. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well for Exar there was no way to know true.. but we were speaking in the grand picture.. but anyway maybe I wasn't clear because we totally agree .. I didn't say Exar choose to embrace the dark side, but did so out of fear! but I think that was a good way to let him fall to the dark side, because you felt sorry for him, and when he slowly turned more and more inhumane and you watched the last shred of humanity vanish from him, you still felt sorry (Well I did) .. because you remember he turned out this way because of fear! That made him seem very human to me! Fortune favors the bald.
213374U Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 but anyway maybe I wasn't clear because we totally agree .. I didn't say Exar choose to embrace the dark side, but did so out of fear! but I think that was a good way to let him fall to the dark side, because you felt sorry for him, and when he slowly turned more and more inhumane and you watched the last shred of humanity vanish from him, you still felt sorry (Well I did) .. because you remember he turned out this way because of fear! That made him seem very human to me! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope. Quinlan Vos fell was close to falling to the dark side because of his fear, but he still did have a choice. On the other hand, they didn't 'let Exar fall to the dark side', they forced him down that path. The failure of one's will to resist their own passions is what makes all the dark side so good and credible story-wise, at least to me. The light side is about doing the right things even if there was an easier way, ultimately it was about improving oneself. If you take the 'choice' element from the story, what's left is not the dark side, it's some lame excuse for it. How come using the force to pull the lightsaber to you so you can save your life is dark? If Exar had used some dark side ability, or had been quick to anger, I might be persuaded to buy it, but he always tried to turn to the light first. Nah, the author was probably suffering a serious hangover when he devised Exar's downfall and couldn't think of any better way to justify it. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Rosbjerg Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 Okay then we don't agree .. well on the Light Side issue we do .. But I think the Dark side is not just giving in to emotions like anger, but also giving in to your fear! if you can't sacrifice yourself for the greater good, which Exar wasn't capable of, that'll take you closer to the dark side! I think he must've known on some level that this was a bad idea .. hence the "I'm sorry Master" remark he made! for me Exars downfall was a believable one, because he acted human every step of the way down .. he was a victim of his fear, and of his arrogance that he could control this fear.. of course this makes him seem weak, and I think he was .. Fortune favors the bald.
Ameorn Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 Okay then we don't agree ..well on the Light Side issue we do .. But I think the Dark side is not just giving in to emotions like anger, but also giving in to your fear! if you can't sacrifice yourself for the greater good, which Exar wasn't capable of, that'll take you closer to the dark side! I think he must've known on some level that this was a bad idea .. hence the "I'm sorry Master" remark he made! for me Exars downfall was a believable one, because he acted human every step of the way down .. he was a victim of his fear, and of his arrogance that he could control this fear.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, yoda actually did say that giving in to your fear was the way to the dark side. So you are right about that i think. And someone else in the movies said that too. Or was it from a game? Or books? Anyway Yoda said s and i think he knows what he's talking about. And it makes sense that you give in to your fears and they in turn can fuel your anger, which makes you stronger (according to the sith).
213374U Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 But I think the Dark side is not just giving in to emotions like anger, but also giving in to your fear! if you can't sacrifice yourself for the greater good, which Exar wasn't capable of, that'll take you closer to the dark side! I think he must've known on some level that this was a bad idea .. hence the "I'm sorry Master" remark he made! for me Exars downfall was a believable one, because he acted human every step of the way down .. he was a victim of his fear, and of his arrogance that he could control this fear..of course this makes him seem weak, and I think he was .. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes but, what greater good was that? Exar couldn't know he would become a Sith lord and therefore that wasn't part of the equation at the time. If he had had some glimpse of his causing millions of deaths, I would agree with you, but that was not the case. He was arrogant alright, but his fear was caused by not being able to feel the light side, by the possibility of turning into oblivion. Suddenly the 'There is no death, there is only the Force' line was no longer true. That and nothing else is what I consider lame about Exar's downfall. The author seemed to think that blocking someone from part of the Force or from the Force altogether was like I just can't accept that. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Rosbjerg Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 but every Jedi learns to respect and fear the dark side .. perhaps he didn't know he would become a Sith Lord, but still he knew what a Jedi was capable of doing once going DS .. but he refused it, becuase of fear and arrogance that this could happen to him! I think thats a good reason for a fall .. well I don't think he feared turning into oblivion, his ability to use the Light side of force was diminished, but the presence of it would still be in him, otherwise he couldn''t have used the DS .. imo he simply feared death! with or without the force .. since I know alot who feel the same way as you do, I will agree that the writer could've done a better and more convincing job! but for me, Exars fall was fine .. guess I'm not that demanding!? Fortune favors the bald.
213374U Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 well I don't think he feared turning into oblivion, his ability to use the Light side of force was diminished, but the presence of it would still be in him, otherwise he couldn''t have used the DS .. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Again, if the story had been a little better crafted, I might agree with you. I think the Force is neither dark or light, it depends on how it's used. But at any rate, his ability to use the light side was not diminished, it was utterly blocked, see for yourself: - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Rosbjerg Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 well I don't think he feared turning into oblivion, his ability to use the Light side of force was diminished, but the presence of it would still be in him, otherwise he couldn''t have used the DS .. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Again, if the story had been a little better crafted, I might agree with you. I think the Force is neither dark or light, it depends on how it's used. But at any rate, his ability to use the light side was not diminished, it was utterly blocked, see for yourself: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah I meant the Light side was blocked (bad choice of words) but his ability to use the force wasn't .. although only DS was accessible.. So even though he couldn't use the LS if he had died he should've become one with the force, since his connection wasn't totally severed! Fortune favors the bald.
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