SW and metaphors

[Rosbjerg]

This is a more general discussion of SW ..

Any idead/thoughts on what SW is based on? which old mythical characters are used and reinvented? (Anakin/Vader for example - borrowed from an old story?)

What are the underlying metaphors of SW? and from a philosophical point of view what seems to be the point of SW?

 

I would like to hear some ideas of what some of the cultures and races are based on .. or simply thoughts on what SW borrows from early or modern stories and/or myths .. or anything else that comes to mind! feel free to strecth your imagination and reach for crazy (but plausible) conclusions ..

 

an example:

most of the cultures and races are probably based on some Earth myths .. the Cathar : Cathar is a gnostic movement (from Hellinistic/greek "Pure ones") that originated in the 10th century (and was under the belief that the world was evil and created by evil) for instance, although I don't think there are any parrallels to the Cathars of SW .. since they don't have anything to do with cats in particular .. Perhaps the race is based on a very old egyptian believe that cats were equal to man and was associated with the god of Bast (also god of fertility), the penalty for killing a cat was death .. similar to the penalty for killing another human! Cats were given human properties, and possibly the other way around, in ancient stories/lore of Bast.. Maybe this is where the idea of Cat-like humans came from?

[GarethCarrots]

now thats deep, way to deep for me :">

[Rosbjerg]

now thats deep, way to deep for me :">

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okay .. well pick another topic .. the tempels on Yavin 4 seems to be inspired by Mayan architecture! or the Jedis seems like Samurais or something .. anything .. An answer to a question you would like to know!?

[GarethCarrots]

this is completely random, but i read the most fascinating topic in the suggestions forum about katanas, whic seem similar to lightsabers in some respect, so mebbe jedi r samurai?!?!

[Rosbjerg]

Yeah I had the same idea .. to a degree they follow the same warrior/honour code, to excel yourself, be honest and gentle acquire new knowledge and skills.. In the end however the Samurai were a little more focused on the glory of the sword than the glory of wisdom .. so here the parallels stop and they become more similar to Sith ..

[GarethCarrots]

in relation to your first post, i dont know if there are loadsa hidden messages and stuff, first and foremost i reckon this film was entertainment, obviously there will be hidden things like u mention, but only darth gl knows them

[213374U]

Yeah I had the same idea .. to a degree they follow the same warrior/honour code, to excel yourself, be honest and gentle acquire new knowledge and skills.. In the end however the Samurai were a little more focused on the glory of the sword than the glory of wisdom .. so here the parallels stop and they become more similar to Sith ..

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You seem to forget that Samurai had absolutely no respect for the lifes of anyone of an inferior caste... which was pretty much everyone around them since they were feudal lords.

[Rosbjerg]

in relation to your first post, i dont know if there are loadsa hidden messages and stuff, first and foremost i reckon this film was entertainment, obviously there will be hidden things like u mention, but only darth gl knows them

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well they're not hidden .. every story borrows from stories before them! its all about knowing them! and I don't know the complete history and lore of this planet .. unfortunatly! :D But with the variaty of people here I thought perhaps we could get some interesting ideas out to discuss .. there were some history students, they must be able to see some paralles?

[DSLuke]

you can't really say, cause SW is a mix of almost every culture on Earth.

From ancient Egyptian to Chinese and Japanese.

 

I would like to live in such a universe where you can visit many other planets...

[Rosbjerg]

Yeah I had the same idea .. to a degree they follow the same warrior/honour code, to excel yourself, be honest and gentle acquire new knowledge and skills.. In the end however the Samurai were a little more focused on the glory of the sword than the glory of wisdom .. so here the parallels stop and they become more similar to Sith ..

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You seem to forget that Samurai had absolutely no respect for the lifes of anyone of an inferior caste... which was pretty much everyone around them since they were feudal lords.

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well yes in reality .. but the honour code they followed call for respect even to the classes beneath them! although everyone should know their place .. it was, as you say, a feudal society .. I was merly talking about the ideology!

[Rosbjerg]

you can't really say, cause SW is a mix of almost every culture on Earth.

From ancient Egyptian to Chinese and Japanese.

 

I would like to live in such a universe where you can visit many other planets...

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of course you can say .. I don't expect you to write a thesis here! just your thoughts, what you noticed .. which cultures you recognized and how they were shown etc.

[Laozi]

Star Wars as a whole, with all its cultures is very difficult to pin point

 

But the ideals around the force and its nature seem to very rooted in Chinese Taoism, mostly the writtings of Lao Tzu

[Rosbjerg]

Star Wars as a whole, with all its cultures is very difficult to pin point

 

But the ideals around the force and its nature seem to very rooted in Chinese Taoism, mostly the writtings of Lao Tzu

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to a degree yes .. do you refer to the Ying-Yang principle because there is alot in Taoism that I can't see fitting very well into SW and Jedis .. but if you meant the nature of The Force then yes! but most old religion have similar "a force of life" that guides every action and connects every living thing .. Even God in christianity borrows this principle .. what the nature of this energy/force/being is differs from love to hate to almost anything .. but the principle is the same..

[Rosbjerg]

aahh this is where you get your name from .. I just remembered Lao Tzu is sometime refered to as Laozi!

but his "action through inaction" doesn't really apply to SW imo .. or what do you mean exactly?

 

edit: Just read up on it .. see what you mean! one should follow the will of nature, and not work against it .. such as a Jedi follows the will of the force!

[Laozi]

Lao Tzu probaly never saw a yin yang in his lifetime

[GarethCarrots]

okay this post is 100% confusing, im so totally blonde considering i hav black hair

[Rosbjerg]

okay this post is 100% confusing, im so totally blonde considering i hav black hair

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sorry .. didn't mean to confuse you! (without trying to sound like a show-off)

I think this is an interesting discussion, I just wish people would come with more ideas .. I love when you find a deep (or shallow) meaning in literature! or a referance to something, IMO it gives a deeper understanding of the univers ..

[Laozi]

aahh this is where you get your name from .. I just remembered Lao Tzu is sometime refered to as Laozi!

but his "action through inaction" doesn't really apply to SW imo .. or what do you mean exactly?

 

edit: Just read up on it .. see what you mean! one should follow the will of nature, and not work against it .. such as a Jedi follows the will of the force!

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Right, the idea is not so much action through inaction, but that passivity is the greatest action, if that makes sense

[Rosbjerg]

aahh this is where you get your name from .. I just remembered Lao Tzu is sometime refered to as Laozi!

but his "action through inaction" doesn't really apply to SW imo .. or what do you mean exactly?

 

edit: Just read up on it .. see what you mean! one should follow the will of nature, and not work against it .. such as a Jedi follows the will of the force!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Right, the idea is not so much action through inaction, but that passivity is the greatest action, if that makes sense

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yeah I just spend a few moments reading up on it .. couldn't remember it fully! like: "Lao Zi believed that violence should be avoided when possible, and that military victory was an occasion to mourn the necessity of using force against another living thing, rather than an occasion for triumphant celebrations. Lao Zi also indicated that codified laws and rules result in society becoming more difficult to manage." (from Wikipidea)

made me think of :

Yoda: Victory? Victory you say? master Obi wan .. not victory, the shroud of the Dark Side has fallen, begun this clone war has ..

[DesertHawk]

On Jedi and Samurai:

 

When Lucas first created Star Wars, he was a Samurai buff. Literally. Star Wars itself is almost entirely based off of the samurai film "The Hidden Fortress".

Look at the religion of the Samurai (Zen Buddhism). If it seems a little bit like the Jedi, don't worry. It is!

The lightsaber, weapon of the jedi, is probably a take off of damascus steel used by the samurai. The samurai's katana was said to be so sharp that it could cut a normal sword in half (apparently they never discovered cratosis weave.).

 

As time has gone on, Lucas' stories have gotten less and less like the honourable samurai stories he based the OT off of. Sadly, it shows.

 

*insert excuse for sarcasm and lack of more detail here.*

[Laozi]

I was always under the assumption he was more inspired by the Sci Fi serials he watched as a kid.

[Rosbjerg]

I was always under the assumption he was more inspired by the Sci Fi serials he watched as a kid.

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hmm do you know which? I always wondered if GL took inspiration from other Sci Fi series or just read ancient literature .. and then added some furturistic settings in! although it is a long long time ago .. and in another galaxy! good way to avoid plagiarism, "nope this happened even before ancient egypt, so they are ripping me off!!"

[DSLuke]

I find it interesting that there is no personalization of a god in Star Wars universe.

 

We only know of Force, which reminds me more of nature and the way it acts.

[Ludozee]

I thought SW was partially an autobiography of GL, like, naive farmboy grows up and learns the harsh way of the real world?

Furthermore it is a story about the continuing battle between good (light) and dark (evil) and about redemption. This sounds actually pretty biblical to me

 

As for names: Luke = Lucas IMO (I'm called Lukas and people call me Luke all the time) Vader = Dutch for father.

 

Perhaps this means GL is Pensylvanian Dutch

[Ameorn]

What about the whole Republic thing? The senate and all that. It is greek, roman and in some way todays u.s. Especially the romans. Thay had a senate and later emperors but the senate remained although with little power. That must be where GL got his inspiration for that atleast, don't you think?

 

hmm do you know which? I always wondered if GL took inspiration from other Sci Fi series or just read ancient literature .. and then added some furturistic settings in! although it is a long long time ago .. and in another galaxy! good way to avoid plagiarism, "nope this happened even before ancient egypt, so they are ripping me off!!" 

 

First of all, i really like GL. But can we trust him when it comes to naming his inspirations? I mean he said that when he filmed ep 4-6, the story for ep 1-3 was already written. And that is just bs. He didn't have plans for the "first episodes", it came after SW made such a success.