Character Creation

[Laozi]

Would you really like to waste level ups with no force powers?

[Monel Case]

While I agree with many of the suggestions and desires posted, you folks need a bit of perspective. Compared to the options available in other games (See Fable), KOTOR and KOTOR 2 are way ahead of the pack. The standard for a game should not be our imaginations, because most games would utterly fail that test. Instead, we should measure games against others that are (1) in the same genre and (2) released in the same genral time frame. By that measure the KOTOR series has few peers.

[Laozi]

true dat

[Judge Hades]

While I agree with many of the suggestions and desires posted, you folks need a bit of perspective.  Compared to the options available in other games (See Fable), KOTOR and KOTOR 2 are way ahead of the pack.  The standard for a game should not be our imaginations, because most games would utterly fail that test.  Instead, we should measure games against others that are (1) in the same genre and (2) released in the same genral time frame.  By that measure the KOTOR series has few peers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Compared to Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind, Kotor is way behind the pack.

[Judge Hades]

Would you really like to waste level ups with no force powers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't see it as a waste. I see it as ROLE PLAYING THE CHARACTER I WANT TO ROLE PLAY WITH!

 

Gee, what a concept.

[KOTORFanactic]

While I agree with many of the suggestions and desires posted, you folks need a bit of perspective.  Compared to the options available in other games (See Fable), KOTOR and KOTOR 2 are way ahead of the pack.  The standard for a game should not be our imaginations, because most games would utterly fail that test.  Instead, we should measure games against others that are (1) in the same genre and (2) released in the same genral time frame.  By that measure the KOTOR series has few peers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Compared to Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind, Kotor is way behind the pack.

 

Yet another thing u and me disagree upon Hades

[Judge Hades]

Well, how isn't it? It is behind older games that are by far superior in character creation options. KotOR and KotOR 2 iare both a big step backwards.

[Laozi]

I can't imagine someone would trade good combat sequences for the bizare interaction on Morrowind. While yes Morrowind was huge and you could go several different paths to get to your goal, the fighting suxs.

NeverwinterNights was definitely a step back from Baldur's Gate II.

Either way there just aren't going to be 20 different classes and the ability to dual class in Kotor. Does that mean the other games are better? I don't think so. Where as I do wish Kotor could be as massive, but I wouldnt want the interaction to change.

[Judge Hades]

We are focusing on Character Creation aspects, not the other parts of the game. Stay on topic, if you please.

 

I am not asking for 20 classes, only 7, 10 at the most if you add in prestige classes. All I am asking for is real choice in making my character instead of plain vanilla force user which they all play exactly the same.

[Astatine]

Well, how isn't it?  It is behind older games that are by far superior in character creation options.  KotOR and KotOR 2 iare both a big step backwards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*takes deep breath and ignores the way Hades has been posting this sort of argument ever since... ever! *

 

Not backwards, more sideways.

 

The narrower the character creation options, the more the devs can "know" your character and thereby weave story around them. An excellent example of this was that fabulous Revelation moment in KOTOR1, which needed a pretty tight character creation scheme in order to work. (The PC couldn't have been an Ithorian, because it'd have broken the cutscenes; (s)he couldn't have been as young as Bastila, because she was trained at an early age and still a Padawan at the time of the Mandalorian war; etc, etc.) Catering to lots of fundamentally different sorts of characters broadens the game and thereby costs in depth, since there's a finite amount of development time available.

 

With the converse philosophy you get games like Morrowind (which I enjoyed just as much as KOTOR1, truth be told). You can do anything and be anyone, but there's comparatively little flowing, told-out story for each character concept: it's a different experience.

 

Planescape: Torment (which, shockingly, I've never completed) is kind of the ultimate in character creation restrictiveness, although in a sense I don't understand why. Is there a reason why the Nameless One starts as a 3rd level fighter rather than a 0th level nobody who has to find some way of recovering one memory or another before he becomes an adventurer of any worth (giving you the chance to pick which path to go down somehow, thereby choosing a class from the get go)? (No, don't actually tell me: but does that get explained? I might be spurred on to playing more of the game if I know it will be...)

[Judge Hades]

This has nothing to do with story of the game. Listen, you can have a character driven tight story while at the same time give the player a wide character creation options. How do I know this? I have played Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2. It can be done if the developers want to put forth the effort.

[I don't like usernames]

as far as cloths go... I'd imanage there will end up being one or 2 uber robes... that look the same... so even if it would be nice to edit your cloths at start up... our armor or robes will over right it, so is it really a nessery thing?

 

KingSnake.

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Well a robe should be just that, a robe you should IMHO still be able to select the boots, pants and shirt to go with it.

 

 

When it comes to fashion that is also role play options, not character creation.  Maybe we might have more character creation options if they didn't focus so much on the lame Jedi classes.

 

Classes at first level I would have liked being available:

Soldier

Scoundrel

Scout

Force Adept

Guardian

Consulor

Sentinel

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While I do think a well written CRPG in which we play a non-force using character in the Star Wars universe ( I'm rather fond of the noble class in the D20 version myself) would have a lot of potential and should definately be explored sometime in the future KOTOT is IMO, hardly the series for it.

 

 

Well, how isn't it?  It is behind older games that are by far superior in character creation options.  KotOR and KotOR 2 iare both a big step backwards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*takes deep breath and ignores the way Hades has been posting this sort of argument ever since... ever! *

 

Not backwards, more sideways.

 

The narrower the character creation options, the more the devs can "know" your character and thereby weave story around them. An excellent example of this was that fabulous Revelation moment in KOTOR1, which needed a pretty tight character creation scheme in order to work. (The PC couldn't have been an Ithorian, because it'd have broken the cutscenes; (s)he couldn't have been as young as Bastila, because she was trained at an early age and still a Padawan at the time of the Mandalorian war; etc, etc.) Catering to lots of fundamentally different sorts of characters broadens the game and thereby costs in depth, since there's a finite amount of development time available.

 

With the converse philosophy you get games like Morrowind (which I enjoyed just as much as KOTOR1, truth be told). You can do anything and be anyone, but there's comparatively little flowing, told-out story for each character concept: it's a different experience.

 

Planescape: Torment (which, shockingly, I've never completed) is kind of the ultimate in character creation restrictiveness, although in a sense I don't understand why. Is there a reason why the Nameless One starts as a 3rd level fighter rather than a 0th level nobody who has to find some way of recovering one memory or another before he becomes an adventurer of any worth (giving you the chance to pick which path to go down somehow, thereby choosing a class from the get go)? (No, don't actually tell me: but does that get explained? I might be spurred on to playing more of the game if I know it will be...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Even if you design a story where the main character for plot reasons has to be a male human in his mid twenties, you should still let the player customize that character both through lots of dialog options and the ability to design or specify things such as face, body, clothes and if the engine supports it tattoos, jewelry and other accessories because it'll help most players identify with the(ir) character.

[Laozi]

I understand that you would like this, that, and the other but like I said if you were asked what kind of Jedi would you be, then really there are three choices. Now I will admitt in the first Kotor the skill sets didn't add much to your character, because most options were like, repair robot to kill enemies, hack computer to kill enemies, run in and do it yourself. But this has been something that the designer have time and time again said they were working on to improve, so in a way this hopefully will way in more on initial character development.

Also I played Baldur's gate 1&2 as well and yes the story allowed for a broad range of character and la la la its great, but this is an entirely different type of rpg, and remember the story is not really that great, not even really the other character's stories were all that convincing, Haer'delis and such.

[Judge Hades]

A CRPG is a CRPG, no more and no less. Here is another example of great CRPGs that allowed greater character creation options that had a fairly focused story. Fallout 1 and Fallout 2. The best and third best CRPGs ever made.

[Craftsman]

I wonder if KOTOR 3 will have SWG creation tools. Where i can create my characters look from scratch.

[Weiser_Cain]

Depends on how lazy and or rushed the are.

[Craftsman]

Hmmm. Maybe there are too many animations for that to happen.

[Darth Ni]

it still would be nice, maybe if they released an SDK or something. that way we could tinker around with the game all we wanted :D

[starwarskid15_19]

i wanna be able to be an alien like Jedi Academy and Galaxies. i wanna be a force using zabrak. i guess my dreams wont come true since i wont play Galaxies cuz i dont wanna pay to play and in Jedi Academy u can only be a female zabrak

[Craftsman]

Yeh. I think they will not force us (although i would not play any other species other than human) to be human. Interesting maybe.