Thousands Refusing to pay taxes

[Product of the Cosmos]

Well its much more than a theory at this point. Theres just no 'real' investigation taking place now or ever. If you look into it you will find many of the key decision makers in FL were Bush friendsly or even his immediate family. You will find the electronic vote machine makers are avid Bush supporters. You will find many more startling facts about the elections.

 

Which all put together are more than theory.. Its due evidance and implications. Yet, our government is so controled it was not exposed. Then 9-11 happened. And anything bad about the pres was basically banished for a while....

 

 

but for conspiracy theories, which the election scandal is not much a theory IMO although I guess thats all you can call it at this point. Here is a good one IMO about the 9-11 WTC towers

 

http://letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb...p?t=887&start=0

 

The guy goes into intricate detail. That is almost more than theory as well. Although not proven of course.

 

 

 

But in the end your completely right. Its our fault for sitting on our asses letting this happen.

[Phosphor]

But I also feel it was partly the responsibility of those registering to, now get this...TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY AND MAKE SURE THEY DID IT CORRECTLY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

That's not the problem. The problem is that hundreds of thousands were denied their civil right to vote. It's not that they didn't want to, or were lazy, but the Florida system did not allow them to vote.

I will buy that FL stretched it's antique voting methods one election too far, and the results came up and bit the in the @ss

But it didn't bite them on the arse. It gave the state some unwanted scrutiny, but their system did allow Governor Jeb's big brother to get elected president. Hardly a bit on the arse.

 

The vote this year is going to be just as terrible with the voting machines. Far too much can go wrong there in such an important event. What's wrong with marking an X beside a name on a piece of paper? It's what we do here in Canada and it works just fine. The vote counts are often quite accurate.

 

As for the electoral system, I think it's too broad. The system we use is similar though on a smaller scale, with each province having a certain number of ridings in each of which a person runs for Member Of Parliament, and 155 seats (ridings) are required for a party to claim majority victory.

I like it better than the electoral college in the US.

[Product of the Cosmos]

and as for the antique comment... Phosphor is right, lol. A lot of the miscounted votes(the ones actually counted) were done by machine and flawed vote cards that were made(intentionally or not whatever you choose) to count a Gore Vote as Bush and a Bush vote for Bush.. Yay Bush wins.. lol.

 

 

A X by a name works. And hand counted votes by people being watched by camera is the way to do it. Hell, they should be video taped and broadcast on national TV when doing it!

[Judge Hades]

You just assume thats what they r doing because you have no conviction or values in the way they do.

LOL, of course I do, that is why I just sent a letter to my congressman with the link asking that these people be investigated and prosecuted.

 

You gotta fight for your beliefs, like I just did.

That is your perogative, Karzak. If you want to support a court appointed president who got a "Gentlemen's C" at his Ivy league college, had his military records "lost," lied about WMDs to go to war, and lets his corporate buddies have full reign over things more power to you.

 

Fight for your beliefs and I will fight for mine.

 

If voting doesn't work, violence will.

[Product of the Cosmos]

dont forget scammed the election, has taken more vacation then any pres ever, used 9-11 to get re-elected and as major propaganda source, trampled our constitution, screwed our environment, is illiterate, says things like 'crusade' when talking about Muslims, thwarted investigations on his election AND 9-11 in MAJOR ways, appointed corporate criminals KNOWN, thwarted investigations on **** 'HalliburtonBechtel' Cheney's former companies and Cheney himself, and many equally ****ed up things..

 

Grandpa I also dissagree that Bush is not different then any other pres.. Hes by far the most extreme. Reagan and BushI were about the same.. Xcept they were a bit more secretive about it getting more and more easily seen and expose the further you get from the R in Reagan to the h in BushII.

[Phosphor]

Bush certainly is extreme, particularly in his religious ideology and how he uses that to run his government. It's not even accurate ideology; he has a nasty case of twisting biblical passages to suit his political ends, and I don't recall any US president believing that God wants him to be president. The concept of the Divine Right Of Kings died off a few centuries ago.

Bush is scary, and dangerous.

[Product of the Cosmos]

R e a g a n.....................B u s h I......................................B u s h I I

****in things up.......uh oh not very discrete..............My god throw in the towel

but casually.............But still denyable......................they r barely hiding it now

and somewhat................to the regular....................only the stupidest

discrete........................ignorant worker...........................or most ignorant

......................................of America...........................are still in the dark

 

 

lol theres a chart for ya.

[Judge Hades]

Nothing that a 9mm bullet couldn't cure.

[Product of the Cosmos]

LOL dude its much more than 1 person.. Or I would have done that myself a long time ago. 'Dubya' is dummer than a meat popsicle. Killing him would just make **** Cheney pres who actually has the intelligence to know what he is doing is wrong. And it owuld get the Bush supporters MORE angry and hateful(yes that is possible), which the Bush crime regime feeds off of. Such things blind wisdom. And America would be much more easily manipulated.

 

They could pin it on anyone, like 'assasin has links to Iran' or some ****.. And invade Iran the next month.. lol.

[Judge Hades]

Right, so I should use a rocket propelled grenades so I could take out Cheney and the others around him.

[Product of the Cosmos]

lol well firstly dude what you just did is illegal. And if you are involved in something like this opposittion you would be prosecuted.

 

Secondly the crime regime is thousands strong. The only way to kill it is with ghandi method of peace IMO. Knowledge and awareness beats corruption. And we are progresively getting more aware and smarter.

 

With the uncontrollable and unseen invention of the internet and its effect. Truly the apex of the Digital age and a huge sign that our late parts of the dark ages(yes IMO were still in them) will be ended.

 

People can be educated and aware at unprecedented levels. No longer can one person be killed in an area and the whole community silenced. Now the whole world is at our fingertips. And this is a major good sign in our development of a species to cast away the shadows of our own corruption.

 

 

lol.. or you could just ya.. use a rpg like Bin Ladens chronies.. lol. But they feed of anger and hate. Your only adding to it if you kill IMO.

 

another day, another closed mind awaits to be freed

 

If I thought truly killing would do anything good I would have killed many thousands of people by now. Im serious.

[Judge Hades]

Ghandi method of doing things might get things done, but it isn't as satisfying as being able to rip the heads off those who piss you off.

 

I do have a lot of anger and hate, Cosmo. I hate George W. Bush. I hate Cheney. I hate the Republican party and I will always hate them. I don't have much love for the Democrats either. If I could I would destroy the current form of government, and all of its beaucracy and forma more streamline, more perfect and democratic government.

 

Wipe them all out, and start over..

[Phosphor]

And we are progresively getting more aware and smarter.

I'll be more inclined to believe that if Bush loses this election. If he wins, I'll lose all hope for you guys in the US.

[Judge Hades]

If Bush wins, I be thinking that he cheated like the first time around.

[Product of the Cosmos]

Well actually I was thinking about voting for Bush agian since his open ways of deception are a good wakeup call to those under Clinton or others who think our gov't isnt even capable of such thing.

 

And hades. It is my philosophy that hate when broken down to purest form is love. If you did not love some things so much(like freedom, good people, your existance, etc) you would have no reason to hate those who defile it.

 

Bush could win legitly tho this time IMO. After 4 years of fearbased propaganda and brainwashing. I find a lot of people will vote for him based on those things. They are so fearful they will vote for someone they know can kill people without a second thought.

 

The ignorant American is like cattle. They are noble most the time, good workers. Deserve to be treated well.. But are ****ing clueless standing there doing nuthing farting in the wind. lol

 

[Grandpa]

It's not that they didn't want to, or were lazy, but the Florida system did not allow them to vote.

 

You misinterpereted what I said, phosphor. I did not mean that they were lazy in voting, I meant they were lazy at making sure all of their ducks were in a row prior to voting. The problem, especially in the communities which rely heavily in getting the word out through community groups is that when the leaders of that community get it back-asswards, so do all of the lemmings listening to them.

 

So, instead of admitting that they failed to take responsibility for failing to properly take care of business for themselves, the people run to point the finger at someone else. When you look for it, you can find a government conspiracy, whether it is there or not.

 

I don't know how the people in Canada are (pretty hot women though ) but more and more people in the US are jumping on the civil rights train than need be there. Many of these people find conspiracy at every turn, whether it exists or not. These same people take every word you and I say and make every attempt to twist and contort it into something it never was.

 

HOWEVER! Since we have a system in place that allows for people to make these types of allegations, I can't deny them their constitutional right to **** and moan. It is only when that bitching and moaning begins to trample on MY constitutional rights does it become a problem. If I have to pay extra out in taxes so Leroy and Jimmy, Lakeesha and Jill can have special, golden invitations to the thing which we all call "life", that is when I start to get ticked off about their whining. Now is one of those times.

 

Again. Morons can't figure out how to register to vote, or forget that their felony convictions preclude them from national elections: Not a Conspiracy.

 

Government gathers up elderly elections volunteers and orders them to not count votes or deny votes of people otherwise legally allowed to vote: Conspiracy.

 

There is no gray area.

[Grandpa]

PotC I have to agree with you.

 

The ignorant American is like cattle. They are noble most the time, good workers. Deserve to be treated well.. But are ****ing clueless standing there doing nuthing farting in the wind. lol

 

I personally think that Bush will win again, by a slim margin. However, neither victory will be a plus for the US. Both are equally incompitant leaders.

 

The question American need to ask themselves as they ponder who to vote for is:

 

Do you want the in-your-face style of Bush/Cheney, or the subversive, sneaky backstabbing that is bound to come with the Johns?

[Product of the Cosmos]

There was a bit of both I think G-pa.. lol.

 

"but more and more people in the US are jumping on the civil rights train than need be there."

 

I don't agree. Civil rights IMO are one of the most important things to human existance. And more flagrant things VS civil rights=more people up in arms naturally.

 

I can totally relate with you tho.. I don't like particularly like paying for the shortcomings of others either. But I guess being more healthy and/or functional it is my duty to carry the weight of others on my back until we as a whole are the way we should be, in time we will be.

 

Its a process from one end to the other. So I guess whatever point in progress we are as a whole, humanity should be there because it is needed to further our develpoment as a species to end up where we want to be. All things we go through are needed for our DNA strain and spiritual awareness IMO. Some make the mistake(IMO) of thinking spiritual and soulful things are limited to those who are consciously enlightened. IMO everything is spiritual. And everything has a reason.

 

Like Bush. As much as I dislike his actions. He is a big part of our progress. And looking at the whole picture holographically he is important too. As is everything.

[Grandpa]

I don't agree. Civil rights IMO are one of the most important things to human existance. And more flagrant things VS civil rights=more people up in arms naturally.

 

Be careful how you interperet.

 

Civil rights. Yes everyone in the US (and Canada... )deserves to respect and to left unmolested so long as they remain with REASONABLE laws and governance. (Your interperetation may more Kantian than mine..or maybe more Hobbesian. It doesn't really matter, so long as the governance is fair and equitable).

 

However, too often, people use it as a shield when the situation is far from a violation of actual civil rights. Take, for example, the situation wherein the flight attendant used an old nursery rhyme ("eenie meenie meinie mo find a seat we got to go"...) as a humorous way to tell the passengers to sit down, the plane was about to take off. There sit two "auto-victims". Those people who are automatically victims of every circumstance and will look for victim status if it is not readily apparent. They claimed that the version they knew was racists. And you know what...it may very well be the case that is the ONLY version they ever heard. However, the flight attendant said she didn't even know there WAS a racist version, that the one she knew was the "tiger" version. And you know what...THAT may have very well been the case. BUT, there was no consoling the two "victims". Their civil rights had been violated and they were meant to look the fool in front of a plane-load of people. When it went to court, it was summarily rejected by all concerned...except the two victims. 10 years ago, the trial may have gone to conclusion in favor of the "victims", but any more, people are so quick to be the victim, and so quick to see the potential for libel, and the resulting "ka-ching" of the monetary damage awards, that "civil rights" has taken on a negative conotation. Political correctness run-amok is another fine example of civil rights to the extreme.

 

People, and I mean ALL colors/creeds/genders/etc, have so convoluted the term "civil rights" that it has lost it's original meaning.

[Grandpa]

PotC, Phosphor,

 

This has been a great thread and I enjoy the debate. But I gotta run. My civil rights are being violated because I have to drive 5 hours tonight to get back to my duty station. I have to be back on watch in the morning.

 

So, I have to run, but will check back tomorrow (it's an operations center watch where I have access to the internet) to see where this all went.

 

Till later...

 

[Product of the Cosmos]

Ya I enjoyed your presence g-pa. Hope your watch is fruitful. lol.

 

As for your previous post I agree with the concept surely. But I'm not sure if that particular slacker and 'auto-victim' mode some people find so comfortable is raising.. lol. But ya I see that often and agree it is higher than optimal for proper existance. If there is such thing. I thought you meant other things previously

 

lol the 'civil rights' horn is tooted in ridiculous ways often. For example recently a black man was shot here in the Portland area while reaching for his seatbelt when he got pulled over. A very unfortunate event. Which IMO and other professionals in the field of law who I have talked to in the matter agree that it was unproper procedure by both the cops and the dude who was shot. The 2 cops who killed him were for one in the wrong alignment for a situation of that matter.

 

When you have 2 officers and you are approaching a suspect or person you deem valid to pull your gun out you have officers on both sides so you can see both sides clearly. Which they faulted in. Who knows if it was racially motivated but there is no evidence of it. Just theory.

 

The killed man also should not have reached for his seatbelt when they asked him to keep his hands on the wheel.

 

The extreme black community was in outrage. I was a bit angry too, but misdirecting fury is often done. They immediately labeled it racist cop etc. In this case i think proper protocol was lacking on both sides. And things like this is what makes other civil rights things that actually have merit(grrrrrrrr) seem so stupid.

[Mnemon]

Ahem, sorry for doing an in between Off-topic post, but I noticed this during the first couple posts on page one - as usual Anarchism is considered the rule of chaos, lawlessness etc. ... that is not what Anarchism tries to achieve. Please inform yourself about Anarchist Theories here: Anarchist F.A.Q. on "What is Anarchism?".

 

It doesn't matter whether you believe in it or not, but when talking about theories, especially political ones, one should know what these theories _really_ try to achieve.

 

-Mnemon

[Product of the Cosmos]

Thank you for the info Mnemon you expanded my understanding of anarchy. I am truly grateful Replace my word for anarchy with 'idiocism' lol. Because a lot of the people I have known who think they are anarchists just want chaos by every meaning of the word. And don't truly understand the philosophies of their own named belief. And I have seen how a corrupted gov't can contribute to create individuals who create chaos and disrupt everything around them as result of no hope, and they have called themselves anarchists. Things like the anarchist's cookbook act as disinformation as well. Bombs, napalm, u name it, its in the book...

 

That gives me a whole different view on how ****ed up it was to suspend a student with a shirt with the Anarchy symbol on it.

 

 

Anarchy placed in a time-based collective consciousness of now with man is considered chaos. Supporting the claims by conservative governmental supporting people based on their doubt of man and our capabilities.

 

Anarchy is basically what happens to a society when they reach the age of enlightenment, which is universal cognicence and no need for authority. I guess I am an anarchist at heart myself.

 

 

oh ya, and g-pa reguarding your statement about conspiracy aware people seeing it in everything. lol. I can relate. After being exposed to some things indefinetly, and piecing together other things, and seeing how ****ing crazy som egroups here on Earth are. I can see a conspiracy in everything. I don't think there is a conspiracy in everything, just see a possible one. lol. Because its quite capable when considering some factors in motive and past actions of certain groups.

[Phosphor]

The question American need to ask themselves as they ponder who to vote for is:

 

Do you want the in-your-face style of Bush/Cheney, or the subversive, sneaky backstabbing that is bound to come with the Johns?

Another question Americans should ask themselves is how do you want the US to be viewed on the world stage? Because at the moment, the view of the US is pretty poor, and a change of leadership could certainly turn things around.

As for Bush/Cheney being in-your-face and the two Johns being sneaky, I think the Bush/Cheney leadership is as sneaky and deceptive as it is aggressive. Bush is the frontman and Cheney the power behind the throne, so to speak.

At least Kerry isn't going to lead via twisted religious ideology and continue to narrow the divide between church and state. That counts for a lot from my perspective.

[Grandpa]

I agree with your view of Bush/Cheney, phosphor. I would add, though, that Bush/Cheney are far more likely to "screw up" by telling the people exactly what they are doing, in hopes that we are all too stupid to understand. Remember, they are in charge, so they must be the smartest, right?

 

The Johns, I believe, would be better at refraining from such public displays of idiocy. That does not mean things would not come out in the end, but they certainly wouldn't front-load us about their activities.

 

There is a saying in the south, at least here in GA, that all of the locals seem to know and take to heart: "In the south, we'll smile to your face, but stab you in the back the minute you turn around." Having been raised in the north, I can't say I'd ever experienced that type of behavior (that I took notice of), but Edwards gives me the impression that he functions exactly in that manner. It really is a creepy feeling.

 

My take on this election is that it is a wash. Whichever party wins in November, the country will lose. Now we'll just have to suffer through until 2008.

 

As for the world stage issue, I have covered my thoughts more extensively on previous threads. In summary: every "superpower" that has existed had been hated by those "smaller" (or less powerfulr/influential) nations and territories. The US is currently the dominant nation in the world. Therefore, the world hates the US.

 

Keep in mind, those of you who are not from the U.S., like you, we know no difference. This is where most of us were born, just like you were born/raised in Germany, France, Poland, where ever, and that is what you know. Some folks want to lump all Americans into one group, a group that truly only identifies our questionably corrupt government's activities and doings. I say, do you have any more control over your public leaders than we do?

 

I am digressing from the OT. Sorry about that.