I wanted to be Revan again

[Opus131]

I'm not being given much of a choise, what am i to do ?!?

Actually, you are given a choice.

 

Just because someone disagrees with your point of view doesn't necessitate a condescending attitude. It's a debate of opinions. No reason to get personal or talk down to someone.

 

Even if you don't agree with him and think his views are garbage, that doesn't automatically mean you have to start being condescending in your tone. That's how flame wars start because the topic strays from the actual debate to a more personal bitch fest.

Perhaps you are right, i think i better get some sleep.

 

It's just that i HATE it when pop-culture tries to replace REAL culture and nobody seems to be the wiser.

 

That they teach the Matrix in colledge really was the last straw, i can't beleive our cultural values have sink so low...

[EnderAndrew]

Somebody kill me please, i can't deal with this level of stupidity and ignorance.

Your choice was to degrade the mutual of expression of opinions into a flame war.

 

And spellmar says, it's spelled:

 

choice

 

Okay, perhaps you did pay attention more than I gave you credit for while watching the movies. I thought it foolish to call the effects in the Matrix poor. I tried to clear up what appeared to be a misunderstanding by throwing out my assumption that I feel you were more upset with the concepts applied in the Matrix, and not so much the effects themselves. You respond with:

Please.

 

Wheter the object it's realistic in itself or not it's completely and utterly IRRILEVANT to the argument.

Spellmar says:

Irrelevant

I'll say it again, it doesn't freaking matter what it is that you are trying to replicate throught the special FX, what i'm talking about is how succesful you are in replicating the object in the first place.

 

I can't beleive i had to stop and explain that to you, this is beyond retarded.

 

The fact is, the special FX of the T2 were created to look like what liquid metal would look like, and it was very good at that.

 

At contrary, when it came to portraining a human being, the Matrix were a complete failure, thus, T2 special FX were far more successful and beleivable.

Spellmar says:

believe and portraying

 

So you deny that you had a problem with that they were trying to achieve. Here you blast the effects, and say they failed miserably in their attempts. You later admit they have technical credibility, or as you put it "brilliance".

 

The effects of the liquid metal morph were phenomenal for the time being. I just rewatched T2 last month. I still find the film enjoyable. I think the performance of Edward Furlong to be underrated, and regret the fact that he didn't get a chance to reprise his role in T3. I digress. Looking back, the effects were great for the time, but aren't the best effects I've ever seen.

 

I maintain that if a person takes offense at the story being thrown his/her way, they will step outside the willing suspesion of disbelief, and nit-pick. I think that may be why you did not care for the visual effects. I also maintain that the Matrix had a few really great scenes in the sequels, but that does not make the films in and of themselves great. The freeway sequence was like nothing else I had ever seen. I consider it a great compliment to compare it to T2's chase sequences. Even years later, when they did T3 with the same technology as the Matrix crew, they could not touch the earlier greatness of the T2 chase sequences, nor the freeway sequence in Reloaded. From an action standpoint, there is some validity there. The city of LA wouldn't even let them film the sequence because they considered it pure suicide. No city would. So they built a stretch of highway in the Australian desert to film that sequence.

 

You ask about the deeper messages. Okay.

 

Gnostic Christianity has several differences from Modern Christianity. It is based more on a personal loving relationship with God than establishing chuches on earth and judging your fellow man. Many of the messages within Gnostic Christianity, such as love performing miracles and being the most important lesson, have roots in the Bible, and thus Modern Christianity, but have been glossed over for other lessons. During the cannonization process, certain texts were removed from the Bible, such as the Gospel according to St. Thomas, which remains at the center of Gnostic Christianity.

 

The journey of Neo (new representing the new thinking, and the new covenant with God) is one where he overcomes the limitations of what he believes to be reality (the mundane world). Influxed with the Christian superman to matyr story, are the lessons of Buddhism (Which you called retarded).

 

With the Architect scene, we see a choice being given to Neo. And while you are correct in pointing out that Neo ultimately has all the power in that scene, the Architect does put up the facade that he is a perfect creator. The Matrix is his, and his solely. Humans are too stupid to accept the perfection of his original creation. He speaks down to humanity with his ten-cent words to show disdain for Neo and his kind. You're meant to hate his smug disposition.

 

The Architect would like Neo to make the decision to reboot Zion as it were. He tries to paint the picture that this is part of his equation, and that no other choice is possible. But he reveals the flaw in the Matrix to begin with. The Architect does not know everything, so his threats are meaningless. And the Architect also takes credit for too much, discounting the Oracle's role in shaping a working balance to maintain the Matrix.

 

In this role, the Architect represents the modern Church. The Oracle (being the Word, and Holy Spirit) guide us to the answers we seek without forcing hands or smacking us over the head. But the Architect would subsume that role, and be the one to dictate our decisions and judgements.

 

This one scene is one small example where the movie is drawn to point out the flaws in conventional thinking, and modern churches.

[EnderAndrew]

I could quote your last post and break it down. It would give me a headache.

 

Let's start with the basics. Spellmar says:

 

exstrapolations = extrapolations

whatching = watching

relogious = religious

beleives = beliefs

inquiritive = inquisitive

nebolous = nebulous

colloqualism = colloquialism

whichout = without

fullfillmen = fulfillment

pshyche = psyche

scrypt = script

deliver = delivery

laught = laugh

corrisponds = corresponds

beleives = beliefs

 

That's not using a spellcheck. I picked those words out by hand looking at your last message. That's just spelling. You might come back saying they were typos, but some of these were repeatedly mispelled such as "choises" and "beleives". Punctuaction and grammer also be damned in such nuggets as:

And then you wonder why American educational system are the laughting stock of the western world...

If you can't see the joke here, I'm not pointing it out.

Irony

 

And for the record, while American public schools vary, many of the finest colleges in the world are found on American soil.

[Child of Flame]

I could quote your last post and break it down. It would give me a headache.

 

Let's start with the basics. Spellmar says:

 

exstrapolations = extrapolations

whatching = watching

relogious = religious

beleives = beliefs

inquiritive = inquisitive

nebolous = nebulous

colloqualism = colloquialism

whichout = without

fullfillmen = fulfillment

pshyche = psyche

scrypt = script

deliver = delivery

laught = laugh

corrisponds = corresponds

beleives = beliefs

 

That's not using a spellcheck. I picked those words out by hand looking at your last message. That's just spelling. You might come back saying they were typos, but some of these were repeatedly mispelled such as "choises" and "beleives". Punctuaction and grammer also be damned in such nuggets as:

And then you wonder why American educational system are the laughting stock of the western world...

If you can't see the joke here, I'm not pointing it out.

Irony

 

And for the record, while American public schools vary, many of the finest colleges in the world are found on American soil.

Irony.

[alanschu]

The passing of years means nothing, CGI is cheaper then other types of special effects,

CGI is probably one of the most time consuming and most expensive forms of special effects.

 

Blowing up a car is quite a bit cheaper than doing one with CGI.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I'm sorry, i must've missed the credibility in the part where a liquid metal blob assumes a human apperance.

 

Are you generally this thick or you just like to play games ?!?

Both, but that doesn't matter, because i was responding to your comment on how one set of special effects were more "fake and unbeleivable" than other, when in fact they're both fake and unbelievable.

[alanschu]

I only trust my own exstrapolations, and i stand by the fact that, reguardless of their technical brilliancy, The Matrix special FX were tasteless, over-bearing and far too glaring

 

Then that limits what you can truly take from life. Looking at the same situation from different points of view is the only way you can truly understand something.

 

And only trusting your own extrapolations is rather arrogant. No one is the one authority on anything. Closing your mind to any outside opinion is elitist, and is the root cause for such wonderful things like prejudice.

 

Please note, I'm not saying you are prejudiced against anyone or anything....but merely stating that people that only trust their own interpretations tend to be the ones that instigate prejudiced belief (and then passing it on to the gullible masses).

 

Additionally, it basically nullifies your entire argument, as you basically admit to not caring what anyone else thinks about the topic....but if you didn't care, then why start the discussion?

[Opus131]

Spellmar says:

I've lost the argument, so i retort to spell checking as a form of ad hominem attack, concentrating on the person when you cannot rebuke the argument.

 

Congratulation, you are now a Gammarian

 

BTW, i'm a foreign, i learned english by myself.

 

On the other end, irony dictates that somebody who is 'studing' philosophi and film making should be little concerned about championing something as shallow as the Matrix sequels.

 

Wow, i'm really looking forward to your work as a philosopher and film maker...

[Opus131]

Both, but that doesn't matter, because i was responding to your comment on how one set of special effects were more "fake and unbeleivable" than other, when in fact they're both fake and unbelievable.

Not at all.

 

You were trying to state the T2 looked unrealistic by prying on the fact liquid terminators are not real.

 

Mr. Spellmar made the same mistake.

 

If you can't see the blatant fallacy in your logic, i can't help it.

[Opus131]

Then that limits what you can truly take from life.  Looking at the same situation from different points of view is the only way you can truly understand something.

We are talking about special FX here, don't take this furthere then that.

 

I'm not the only one who beleives the Matrix sequels were too lenient in their use of special FX.

 

The original film had great special FX, but didn't rely on them completely.

 

It had a perfect balance, and it was done with taste.

 

The Matrix sequels however tried as hard as they can to 'wow' the audience with a gazzillion of special effects, and at the end of the day the movie felt like a freaking video game.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

You were trying to state the T2 looked unrealistic by prying on the fact liquid terminators are not real.

Perhaps you should read closely, and in the process, try to differentiate between real and credible. Just a hint.

[Opus131]

You were trying to state the T2 looked unrealistic by prying on the fact liquid terminators are not real.

Perhaps you should read closely, and in the process, try to differentiate between real and credible. Just a hint.

Or prying to the fact liquid metal shaping into a human form is not credible, hope that clarifies how i read your reply.

 

If you meant something different, fair enought.

 

Of course, the T2 was not all there was to the film in terms of special FX, and was not the only thing i was referring to when i said T2 had better special FX then the Matrix sequels.

 

The fact is that T2 used very little CGI and concentrated on real special FX, and to me, real always looks better then CGI.

 

Just compared the car chase in 'The league of extraordinary getlements' to 'Ronin'...

[EnderAndrew]

No, there was great irony and a tasty joke to be found.

 

I think you missed it.

 

You want to be killed because you refuse to deal with stupidity while admitting to eschewing the opinions of experts. You then rip the American educational system while falling prey to a litany of spelling and grammer errors.

 

I have patience for people learning English. And in another context, I wouldn't say anything. But when you cap those comments off by ripping the American educational system, and make a grammatical error in the statement itself, it's pretty damn funny.

 

I gave you an example of the deeper signifigance of one scene. I can break the movie down all day long. But you've made it clear that you're not listening. I don't waste my time on close minded fools. But if you're lucky, I'll buy you a dictionary for Christmas.

[alanschu]

We are talking about special FX here, don't take this furthere then that.

.

It's still an admission that you are only looking at it from what you extrapolate. However, unless you are some sort of authority in the field of special effects then it boils down to being purely subjective as to what is good or not. It also still comes off as arrogant.

 

 

Furthermore, you started going on earlier about how the special effects are incorporated to make them look good, when from the beginning EnderWiggen stated that he appreciated the ground breaking visuals. Whether or not they were grossly overused was initially never part of the discussion.

[alanschu]

The fact is that T2 used very little CGI and concentrated on real special FX, and to me, real always looks better then CGI.

I tend to agree. Once I see some sort of anamoly that indicates CGI, it tends to take away from the movie IMO.

[nightcleaver]

No, there was great irony and a tasty joke to be found.

 

I think you missed it.

 

You want to be killed because you refuse to deal with stupidity while admitting to eschewing the opinions of experts.

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

EH??

[mastaGAW]

This argument is interesting but what happened to the topic?

[EnderAndrew]

The arguement started on topic that playing Revan again is akin the the Superman syndrome, and that the Matrix is an example of why this is bad.

[alanschu]

He was arguing how it could be that he saw special effects as gaudy in the Matrix. That, perhaps, should've been his wording in the first place. Still, you leap in with a huge reprimand for him, and he (understandably) gets defensive. You might not have seen this, but that's what happened.

The argument had two points going though.

 

Opus and Ender were also talking about the philosophical nature of the Matrix for quite some time now.

 

 

As for reprimanding Opus, re-read the thread. Opus is being just as aggressive about how Ender is clearly "wrong" as Ender is being to him.

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

This argument is interesting but what happened to the topic?

It disappeared to the abyss of bad topics, and was replaced with something different... :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

[EnderAndrew]

He was arguing how it could be that he saw special effects as gaudy in the Matrix.  That, perhaps, should've been his wording in the first place.  Still, you leap in with a huge reprimand for him, and he (understandably) gets defensive.  You might not have seen this, but that's what happened.

The argument had two points going though.

 

Opus and Ender were also talking about the philosophical nature of the Matrix for quite some time now.

 

 

As for reprimanding Opus, re-read the thread. Opus is being just as aggressive about how Ender is clearly "wrong" as Ender is being to him.

I show respect and civility to those who show it to me.