Massively disappointed by game 2, questions about mods and other Obsidian games

[Swagginson]

I've just finished Pillars 1 with the intention of exporting my character to game 2, I thought it would be a cool experience to see the whole story across two games.

I feel absolutely heartbroken. I can clearly see that the engine is better, graphics, etc. a lot of improvements have been made on the finish of the game, but the **gameplay** absolutely crushed my enthusiasm. 

All I've been doing since installing the game is counting the nerfs, the wing-clips, difficulty increases, reduced options, etc. and just seething in frustration after having spent over 100 hours in the last game only to be constantly slapped over and over by a feeling of impotence in this one. I've made it to level 3 and I'm just about ready to uninstall and never look back.

The only thing I like, other than the visuals, is team skillchecks. That's it. The rest is either "whatever" or between "bad" and "infuriating".

Are there any mods that revert the rules back to Pillars 1 rules? I hate absolutely everything about the new character system, spells, classes, progression, the whole 9 yards.

Also, are other games like Avowed more like POE2 or POE1? Did they revert back to Pillars 1 mentality or keep forcing this inferior system?
 

[Boeroer]

16 hours ago, Swagginson said:

[...] or keep forcing this inferior system?

Hi!

Objectively, from the game mechanics perspective, Deadfire is the superior system.

One can still dislike the changes from PoE to Deadfire of course - but often that seems to stem from the fact that people don't welcome any changes to something the liked in general, even if the changes are for the better.

I felt the same way initially when Deadfire's beta came out (there is still a ranting post from me to be found here in the forums somewhere). I was just disappointed that they didn't keep the rules as they were instead of re-inventing the wheel - but I came around eventually once I got used to the changes and once I got an overall better grasp of the game and its new systems.

I would suggest you give it a bit more time. I think it's totally worth it. 

Here are some changes to game systems which are improvements:

• power level scaling makes sure that low level abilities and spells scale/progress and stay impactful. For example: unlike PoE's Magic Missiles which are basically useless in the later game, Deadfire's Power Level scaling adds more and more missiles to that spell so that it's still worth casting even in the game   
• the (multi)class system works very well and allows for a lot of interesting and fun to play combos. In PoE we only got some cross-class talents. 
• the affliction/inspirations system is more intuitive and practical than PoE's affliction system which had no solid structure. It's also more tactical because you can counter afflictions with the fitting inspirations (and not only Priests' prayer spells) - and you get resistances and immunities on top

While I miss the 6th party member, the endurance/health system and per-rest spells, the new approach (party of 5, only health, per-encounter spells) have their advantages, too. Mainly it made it easier to design and balance encounters - and imo one can feel and see that: a lot less meaningless filler fights for example. 

• the PEN/AR scales much better with your progression than PoE's DR did (even though it's a bit too punishing on PotD imo)
• stealth in combination with sneaking and pickpocketing is just no comparison to PoE (pickpocket wasn't even possible)
• the interrupt/concentration system is a lot more tactical and not just an uncontrollable side effect it was in PoE - instead the interrupt is a powerful tool and having concentration is a meaningful protection against it
• unique item enchantments in PoE were not that diversified, the enchantment system is pretty generic: you put the same enchantments on every weapon/armor. In Deadfire every unique item has a unique enchtantment and weapons and armor have unique upgrade "trees" with interesting effects - many of them lead to cool combinations with certain (multi)class abilities which are fun to explore
• Deadfire has a nice UI-based AI-"if this than that"-scripting tool which is leages better than anything you can do with PoE's party AI settings
• pets (not the Ranger's Animal Companion) which were only cosmetic in PoE have useful individual and party-wide effects now in Deadfire
• the new weapon proficiencies grant you a weapon modal but the system doesn't give non-proficient weapons disadvantages - PoE's weapon focus soft-locked you out of certain weapon choices
• you can export party members as hireligs for other playthroughs
• the stacking rules are much less obscure and less "all over the place" in Deadfire
• the combat log is a lot more detailed and helpful
• the character info (currect stats, effects etc.) is more detailed 

And so on and so forth...

I personally liked the tone and "vibes" of PoE better than Deadfire, I also liked the main story of PoE more - but the systems design of Deadfire is way, way better than PoE's. 

While it's absolutely valid to dislike the changes made (initially of forever) - a game has to meet your taste after all for you to be happy with it after all - it's not right to call Deadfire's game system inferior.    

16 hours ago, Swagginson said:

Also, are other games like Avowed more like POE2 or POE1?

Mechanically Avowed is nothing like PoE... or Deadfire either (unfortunately). Besides it being a first person, real time action RPG (like Skyrim etc.), it also has more streamlined character creation and progression systems, UI etc. due ot it being developed for gaming consoles (and therefore gamepads) as well. PoE and Deadfire were originally designed for PC only and their mechanics and the UI options are a lot more intricate. Outer Worlds stuff is the same as Avowed in that regard basically.

17 hours ago, Swagginson said:

Are there any mods that revert the rules back to Pillars 1 rules?

There are lots of mods for Deadfire and they are easy to install and manage (Deadfire has a build-in mod manager - another plus). I took a quick look but cannot find any mod which would introduce a whole bunch of PoE rules into Deadfire - besides some minor things like putting PoE's Riposte chances into Deadfire - or some unique items. Here's an overview:

https://www.nexusmods.com/games/pillarsofeternity2/mods?sort=createdAt

Cheers!

[Swagginson]

I like how you gave me a massive wall without asking a single question. You don't even know what my problem is, but you're already convinced that I'm wrong.

"Objectively superior" thanks for letting me know that you're completely biased.

This is exactly what I expected from fans: blind defence and a complete dis-interest in my position. This is why I didn't even write down my gripes: it's a waste of time and nobody cares.

Thank you for looking up on mods tho, that was useful.

[Boeroer]

I don't see why I should have asked you a question.

You should consider that I didn't write that text for you alone, but also for other readers who might find your rant (which is based on your subjective, very short first impression).
They could get influeced by it if there's no counter, missing out on what I think is an excellent and fun game. 

Of course I am biased: I like the game very much. But still: I made some (I think) pretty solid arguments and gave examples as to why Deadfire's systems are superior compared to PoE's.

I was polite, not agressive and I didn't judge your personal opinion. I literally said "it's absolutely valid to dislike the changes made".
I merely objected your conclusion and your opinion about the game's systems.

There also wasn't a blind defense. I took the time and worded my response carefully and wrote down a bunch of examples - one cannot step back, look at my reply and seriously call that a blind defense.

I agree though that I'm not really interested in your position about the game. I'm more interested in the possible effects your rant might have on potential future players - and I want to present a counterargument which is trying to be more objective and resonable... so that those potential players have a chance to make a more educated decision.

I like to help players who have problems with/questions about both games' mechanics, rules, builds, tactics and so on. But I'm not interested to play therapist for disappointed players. If you don't enjoy Deadfire then that's fine with me. Not everybody has to like the same things.

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Thank you for looking up on mods tho, that was useful.

You're welcome. I also answered your question about Avowed and other Obsidian games. I hoped that would be useful, too. 

Cheers!   

Edited 4 hours ago by Boeroer
typos, wording

[Swagginson]

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and I want to present a counterargument which is trying to be more objective and resonable

A counter-argument to what exactly? I didn't make a single argument (and boy am I glad I didn't).

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There also wasn't a blind defense. I took the time and worded my response carefully and wrote down a bunch of examples

How is it *not* a blind defense if you just start throwing out examples and a wall of text when triggered by the slightest hint of potential criticism? You heard a rustle in the bushes and you opened fire with everything you had.
 

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I agree though that I'm not really interested in your position about the game. 

At least you're honest, so that's good.
 

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 I'm more interested in the possible effects your rant might have on potential future players

And how do you think your "argument" will affect future players? If someone comes to this thread, all they will see is you showing 0 interest in any argument as to why this system could POSSIBLY be flawed or inferior and trying to drown me in words. All they will conclude is that this forum is not a place to get honest feedback or to have an honest discussion about the game, because the veterans here literally admit that they don't care what you have to say: the game is superior and you need to deal with it. How can you possibly say to yourself "hell yes, I really showed him and this will definitely encourage onlookers to talk to me more." If what you did was for optics, then you did yourself a huge disservice.

Also, my "rant" was like 3 lines, how is that a rant? And if that was a rant, then what does that make your...utterance by comparison? I wrote 3 lines "hey, I don't like this, can I go elsewhere for a fix", then you write a massive post about how I cannot possibly have a point to make and you call *me* out on *my* rant?
 

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I merely objected your conclusion and your opinion about the game's systems.

How can you object to something you don't even know the reasons for?! You're not just biased, you're a literal zealot.
 

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I was polite, not agressive and I didn't judge your personal opinion.

First, you can't judge my personal opinion if you don't know what it is. Second, you dismissed my position out of hand without even asking for a single reasoning: you judged me as harshly as you could: "I don't care what you have to say, you must be wrong." That is the definition of judgmental. Finally, you are being passive aggressive as hell. Just because you're using nice words, doesn't mean you're not literally telling me that my opinion is invalid and I have nothing to say. 

Your position is, by your own admission: "I don't care what you have to say, I'm not even going to try and convince you, I am right, you have no idea what you're talking about."  If this is what a pillar of this community looks like, then I'll go see myself out.