Trickster with grimoire ? 🤔

[Lonlon]

Hello there,

I'm planning a 3rd (or 4th, can't remember) Deadfire PotD upscaled run before a certain game comes out (I got hyped I have to admit..).

In my previous runs I mainly played melee/brawler builds (bersekers/monks/fighters...) so this time I want to try something a bit more subtile and different. I thought a SC Trickster would be cool but maybe a bit limited/restricted for someone who knows as little about the game as me. So I was thinking it would be nice if my trickster could be a little bit more of a Wizard than he already is by allowing him to use a grimoire thanks to of a mod or something (guile costs would scale with PL as trickster native spells do...). Adding some diversity to a SC rogue sounds fun to me, and also I never played a Wizard MC before so it would be a way to experience engame caster gameplay a little more.

Because you guys now the game way better than I do, I have some questions regarding this project :
- Firstly : do you know if such a mod exist ?
- Do you think it would completely break the game ? (I dont really care if the game gets easier cuz I finished the game several times already but I dont want a spoiled/broken experience neither)
- Do you know if there is a way to improve Trickster's fun by adding spellcasting diversity without modding my game ? Also I kinda want to be a SC Trickster so I can reach high PL and high level spell (I feel like trickster is a fun SC pick)
- Also, am I completly delusional about Trickster not beeing fun enough and willing to add more features on top of what it already has ?

I play with community patch if that matters, and also I like going no rest.

Thanks in advance for your advices, and as always sorry for my mediocre english. Also I have to say it's always a pleasure to find this community alive everytime I dive back into PoE, I will never thank you enough for that guys (without you I definetly would not enjoy this game as much as I do )

Cheers !

[Boeroer]

Hi,

I don't think there's a mod that does this exact thing (but I could be wrong).

You can make Grimoires equippable by anyone with the console. But I don't know if this will give you access to the spells (never tried this). And if it does make the spells accessible I don't think the spells would scale with Power Level (because you will have 0 PL as Wizard). 

Trickster "spells" are copies of wizard spells that then got altered a bit so they cost Guile. Then they got added as direct character abilities to the Rogue class. They scale with Rogue Power Levels.

I think doing a mod for this would be possible - but not trivial.

 

 

[Lonlon]

Thx for the answer Boeroer !

In that case maybe i'll go for a more standard route like Assassin/Bloodmage. I'm pretty sure Bloodmage is a good way to experience intensive spellcasting (and enables the possibility of spamming spells like trickster does) and with Assassin I'll stick with my rogue/stealth initial plan.
Is there a guide you (or someone else) did for that build ? I'm interested by the CC potential of Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure + Assassin for landing spells while stealthed but did not find a proper guide about this route, just read here and there about it (mainly stuff you wrote on this forum now that I think about it ).

Regarding Spellblade, I'm kinda overwhelmed by the different possibilities I read about : Spirit Lance, Chronomatic Staff, the snake weapon grimoire thing I cant remember the name, etc.. In a way it gets me very excited to test those possibilities but also I dont know were to strat. So yeah, I'll take any advices

Also I never properly played Wizard so I wont even be able to tell what control / buff spells I should aim for (early and late game).

Also bloodmage should have some CON for spamming bloodmagic I guess ? RIght ?

In short: so many questions..

Thanks again !
Cheers !

Edited January 24 by Lonlon

[Elric Galad]

What about Streetfighter Bloodmage ? It should have much better synergy

[Lonlon]

Honestly I couldn't tell. I read a lot about assassin/bloodmage crowd control from stealth build, that's why I considered it as a replacement for my original build idea which involves a mod that does not exist x)

From what I understand, Streetfighter would be more about melee capabilities than slinging control spells all the day ? Right ?

Edited January 24 by Lonlon

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, Lonlon said:

Honestly I couldn't tell. I read a lot about assassin/bloodmage crowd control from stealth build, that's why I considered it as a replacement for my original build idea which involves a mod that does not exist x)

From what I understand, Streetfighter would be more about melee capabilities than slinging control spells all the day ? Right ?

Well, Streetfighter would be about harming yourself until blooded to get its speed boost. Then you do whatever you like, attacking ranged or melee, slinging spells, etc... 

The issue with Assassin is that its accuracy bonus isn't super reliable (you basically have to test a spell to be sure it gets the accuracy bonus). 

But there is indeed a trick :

Assassin clunkiness - Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!) - Obsidian Forum Community

 

[Lonlon]

24 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

But there is indeed a trick :

Assassin clunkiness - Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!) - Obsidian Forum Community

 

Yes, the existance of this grimoire/spell was one of the main reason I went for this build 

[Boeroer]

Assassin/Bloodmage is excellent as a debuffer/cc caster. But you need Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure for it to be really great. That's no problem though, you just have to finish Arkemyr's quest line to get one of his grimoires that contains the spell. Or you kill him...

The trick is that Brilliant Departure makes you invisible - but that invisibility does not break on your hit rolls UNLESS you (personally) damage somebody directly (this includes Blood Sacrifices bc. you're damaging yourself directly). Walls and summons don't count.

So all CC and debuffing spells you cast let you stay invisible and profit from the +25 acc the Assassin provides. This leads to a combo that lets you take on encounters (like bounties or ships for example) that are usually way above your "pay grade" - because you can disable and debuff them rel. easily for your party members. Even pulsing spells like Pull of Eora, Sicken and so on will gain +25 acc for all their pulses because you stay invisible. 

Wall of Draining can be used to uphold invisibility almost indefinitely. The only thing that breaks it then is your own Blood Sacrifice - when you run out of spells to cast and want to get some back.  

You can still cause damage with all damaging wall spells and Essential Phantom: cast Concelhaut's Draining Touch and then summon the Phantom. In the meantime you debuff enemies' Will defense into the ground with Miasma (-40) and Dazzling Lights (-10). The Phantom will hit like a truck with Draining Touch (bc. it targets Will instead of Deflection), drain health and apply weakened. And the Draining Touch doesn't disappear on it like it would if you used it yourself. If carry a shield or Kapana Taga or something else with +engagement, the Phantom will also have it. Then it can even dish out powerful disengagement attacks occasionally. Like when you cast Ryngrim's Enervating Terror on the poor enemies and they crawl around, breaking engagement.

Since you are invisible it's also pretty safe to use the Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry without the need for Rekvu's Fractured Casque. 

If you don't care about Wall of Draining and other Conjurations too much: this also works very well with an Illusionist instead of a Bloodmage. You can get to +5 Power Levels easily with Illusion spells that way which are great for debuffing. And you can use empower to either gain back some spells or empower an illusion spell out of stealth/insivibility with +10 Power Levels and +25 accuracy (which is bonkers).

---

Streetfighter/Bloodmage can be an insane single target damage dealer if you use club+modal in the offhand and use Concelhaut's Draining Touch with the Grimoire switching trick in the main hand. The trick is to NOT learn Draining Touch but cast it from a Grimoire and then switch to a Grimoire that doesn't have the spell. That way the draining touch weapon will stay on you until combat ends.

It has insane base damage wich works very well with all the Streetfighter's damage bonuses: Sneak Attack, bonus Sneak Attack when Heating Up (bloodied or flanked), Deathblows, extra crit damage when On the Edge (bloodied and flanked) and so on.

The offhand club + modal will reduce enemies' Will by 25 points automatically, Draining Touch in the main hand targets Will: perfect combo.

Most draining touch hits will go over 150 damage with auto attacks, you will be lightning fast because of the -50% recovery of Heating Up. 

This recovery bonus can also be used to cast spells a lot faster. Especially if you combine it with action speed bonuses (Del. Alacrity of Motion etc.).

And it's so easy to trigger Heating Up: just spam Blood Sacrifice until you are bloodied. If you want to trigger On the Edge right away, too: fire a blunderbuss with modal. 

---

So, in my case those are two very dissimilar playstyles even though the class combos don't seem to be so different. 

 

 

Edited January 25 by Boeroer

[Lonlon]

Streetfighter subclass seems really strong indead. Do we agree that appart from their recovery time, all of their bonuses only apply to weapon combat ? (not spells)
I mean even if it's weapons only + 50% damage + 100% crit damage - 50% recovery time is nuts 

Maybe recovery alone would make streefighter a more versatile pick compared to assassin ? I mean if I want to land my spells maybe I'm better going SF, getting recovery buff and using it to prep enemies faster with miasma and all that good stuff ?
SF would also open the possibility for melee efficiency with Spirit Lance i guess (or any weapons really) ? I kinda want to have a hybrid MC (potent with spells but still able to strike with weapons).
On the other hand I dont want one of those build that play Wizard either to bug-exploit the game or just to buff weapon combat potency.

Do you think SF is a safer pick for someone looking for versatility ?

I was also looking at Bloodmage/Cipher (mostly Soul Blade for the melee synergy), is it any good ? I'm a bit afraid it'll be too much of a melee centric build as soon as Spirit lance is unlocked. There is also Psion but I'm pretty sure there's no melee synergy whatsoever here...

Or maybe full Trickster was a good pick regarding what i'm looking for after all ? Even without Grimoires

Thanks a lot for all you answers. That's helping a ton

Edited January 25 by Lonlon

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, Lonlon said:

Streetfighter subclass seems really strong indead. Do we agree that appart from their recovery time, all of their bonuses only apply to weapon combat ?

That is correct.

2 hours ago, Lonlon said:

Do you think SF is a safer pick for someone looking for versatility ?

Maybe... in this case because it is so easy to trigger Heating Up at will. On the other hand Assassin also applies to the first cast from stealth - that alone can already turn the tides for you.
I think it really depends on what you want to do with your Spellblade. If you want somebody who deals great weapon damage and doesn't want to bother with stealth and invisibility too much then I'd pick Streetfighter.
Assassin needs more planning and setup imo.

2 hours ago, Lonlon said:

I was also looking at Bloodmage/Cipher (mostly Soul Blade for the melee synergy), is it any good ?

 Bloodmage/Soulblade can be very powerful in combination with Citzal's Spirit Lance and Wall of Draining. You can keep all the great buffs (and healing over time) for a long, long time with Wall of Draining (including the +10 max focus on kill the Soulblade gets). Spirit Lance applies raw damage of Soul Annihilation to all enemies in the AoE (not the full number though, that's only for the initial target - still every enemy gets some and that's very good). And of course you have two resource pools that are potentially limitless and lots of great spells to pick from: very versatile combo.

Psion is great for pure casters, it's not good for melee characters.

2 hours ago, Lonlon said:

Or maybe full Trickster was a good pick regarding what i'm looking for after all ? Even without Grimoires

I think SC Trickster is pretty cool. Gambit with enough Guile (Devil of Caroc Breastplate adds +2 Guile) has over 100% crit conversion and with any dual wielding setup (includes Tuotilo's Palm) you can use it many times - because the 4 refund is almost guaranteed (if you don't miss or graze). Combined with Wall of Flashing Steel (+10 deflection on crit - that's almost always with Gambit), some deflection gear such as Gipon Prudensco, Casita Samelia's Legacy (maxed Intimidate) or Nomad's Brigandine and Bracers and Cloak of Greater Deflection, also Mirrored Images or Llengrath's Displaced Image as well as Riposte you will have a very sturdy Rogue who still dishes out crazy single target damage with Gambit. And if Guile starts dropping so that Gambit isn't refunding reliably anymore you can use the remaining Guile for hefty spells such as Kalakoth's Freezing Rake. I think that is one of my best liked SC Rogues because you don't have to worry about dropping dead and can still be a deadly Rogue (with spells). 

 

 

[Chaospread]

10 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You can get to +5 Power Levels easily with Illusion spells th

Why/how +5?

Anyway, I'm for extremist so a MC Trickster/Illusionist with plenty of defensive spells/abilities from these 2 subclass and the single damage skills of rouge plus some other enhanced illusion spells such as Gaze of the Adragan and... do you know that Concelhaut Crushing Doom is illusion, don't you? Also good self-defending debuffer Not for a SOLO run, but I guess a good mate in a party.

[Boeroer]

36 minutes ago, Chaospread said:

Why/how +5?

How: Illusionist +2, Eye of Wael +2, Whitewitch Mask +1

[Lonlon]

On 1/25/2025 at 4:17 PM, Boeroer said:

I think SC Trickster is pretty cool. Gambit with enough Guile (Devil of Caroc Breastplate adds +2 Guile) has over 100% crit conversion and with any dual wielding setup (includes Tuotilo's Palm) you can use it many times - because the 4 refund is almost guaranteed (if you don't miss or graze).

The Gambit refund can happen multiple times if you do multiple crits with it ?
 

I remember back in the days (in 2022 when I was planning my last playthrough), Notsoclever hound told me that it was possible to steal Vatnir's Spiritual weapon with a Wizard's Grimoire Imprint (I mean permanently with the grimoire swap trick). I thought about that and, even if it's some sort of exploit, I still think it could be fun because there's no other way to get this ability in the game (I think). If I do that, will this weapon scale with my PL or Wizard lvl (idk) ? Do I need to be a priest for it to scale properly ? (Also what about disposition scaling for the frost Lash ? does it work ?)

Also because I cant decide yet what build i'm gonna pick for this run, I'm still exploring different stuff. I thought if I give-up the rogue part of the build I may also go Wizard/Monk. IIRC it's one of the best combo with wizard for melee enhancements and would synergize quite well with Draining touch + club modal too right ? Is it better than Vatnir Spiritual Weapon though ? Both could work I guess depending on the situation...
Bloodmage/Helwalker would be a bit scary but I guess not more that Berserker/Helwalker :') Monk would also open strong possibilities for Spirit Lance or Tuotilo's/multi attackroll weapons 

SO, if you know stuff about Sage multiclass and have some advices I'd be interested too  (or anything that could go along with Wizard as a strong versatile multiclass basically)

Anyways, thanks again, looking foward to read you guys ! 
Cheers

Edited January 27 by Lonlon

[Boeroer]

16 hours ago, Lonlon said:

The Gambit refund can happen multiple times if you do multiple crits with it ?

Kind of. Gambit is (unnecessarily) complex:

The max refund of Guile is 4. You cannot generate more Guile than you spend. So the best case is that Gambit costs you nothing. 

The described refund of 2 can happen twice if you dual wield, bc. you have two weapon strikes. It doesn't matter how often you crit during those strikes (for example with an AoE weapon like a rod or mortar - or a multihit-weapon like a blunderbuss or Sun & Moon). If only one of the rolls during that strike is a crit you will get a refund of 2 for that strike. 

If you do 2 strikes (bc. two weapons) and both of them contain at least one crit you get 4 Guile back. Best case. 

Gambit shows 100% crit conversion with 10 Guile - but the 4 points of Guile you pay for Gambit itself get subtracted before the conversion applies during striking.

So during the execution of Gambit your Guile is 4 less and thus the conversion drops accordingly (-10% per missing Guile). Therefore it is recommended to raise your max. Guile well over 10. Check out Devil of Caroc Breastplate for 2 extra Guile (=+20% crot conversion).

You want that big chance to crit with every Gambit roll. This then means free Gambit executions as long as you don't graze or miss (or get interrupted or spend lots of Guile for something else first).

A hidden gem:

Internally, while Gambit is excutedand the game is calculating stuff, the Guile refund is NOT limited. It only gets cut down to max +2 per strike at the end. But while you are striking and doing crits the "internal" Guile counter can go through the roof.

Since the crit damage bonus of Gambit (+20% dmg per point of Guile) relies on the Guile you currently have l, this can mean that you can achieve huge dmg bonus numbers during the execution of Gambit.

For example with Hand Mortar+Blinding Smoke and Fire in the Hole+Chain Shot you can roll a ton of crits with every strike/shot and your internal Guile refund will skyrocket, giving you +200% dmg bonus and more for subsequent attack rolls during that shot.

Only after Gambit is done it is all cut back to +4 Guile (max).

 

[Chaospread]

28 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Check out Devil of Caroc Breastplate for 2 extra Guile (=+20% crot conversion).

And Adratic Glow in Luminous Bathouse (+1 guile).
Anyway Wiz/Monk can be a mighty combo, I'm thinking about an already powerful monk with wizard self buffs.

[Boeroer]

17 hours ago, Lonlon said:

 If I do that, will this weapon scale with my PL or Wizard lvl (idk) ? Do I need to be a priest for it to scale properly ? (Also what about disposition scaling for the frost Lash ? does it work ?)

The normal values of the axes will scale with level no problem.

But I guess the lash will stay low because it only scales with the Priest's dispositions - if those are in line with their god's dispositions. I suspect that wouldn't work with a non-priest. But I haven't tried. Maybe it works if you character adheres to Rymrgand's dispositions -  I mean you can accumulate disposition points as non-priest as well. Just don't know if that gets translated to the axes then.  Worth a try I guess. 

17 hours ago, Lonlon said:

IIRC it's one of the best combo with wizard for melee enhancements and would synergize quite well with Draining touch + club modal too right ? Is it better than Vatnir Spiritual Weapon though ? Both could work I guess depending on the situation...

Draining Touch is the most powerful one handed weapon in the game (besides stuff like Scordeo's Edge+Salvation of Time or Wall of Draining or Grave Calling with skeletons and such things)... if you can keep it with the Grimoire switching trick.

Not much comes close imo. The very high base damage, combined with some damage bonuses, leads to hefty dmg per hit, the health draining and the weakening as well as the targeting of Will make it more powerful.

There's a reason why you are supposed to only get one proper hit or crit with it.  In combo with a club+modal it's even better.

It's also very good on a Wizard/Monk. You don't need Enervating Blows anymore, the draining is nice to stay healthy (even makes Helwalker less scary) and Swift Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming in combination with Merciless Gaze and the ultra low Will of the enemy from club strikes and spells means that additional attacks will proc frequently.

Or improve the dmg per hit with Lightning Strikes, both options are great. Turning Wheel is also nice in combination with that high dmg per hit. Hylea's Talons add a lash, Baby Boar does so, too.

Wizard can pick Spirit of Decay which grants +1 PEN with the Draining Touch weapon. Add Monk's Thunderous Blows and you are at +3.

---

Another nice combo with Wizard and Draining Touch is Steel Garrote. Steel Garrote drains health if you attack afflicted enemies. Draining Touch put weakened on enemies: nice synergy. You drain twice from the same attack which is great for using Blood Sacrifices, you can achieve enormous defense and AR numbers. You will have nice synergy between Eternal Devotion and your spells, too (+15% burning lash to spells, Eternal Devotion works like that). Eternal Devotion's accuracy can get buffed by 10 points with the Ring of Focused Flames. That means that not only do you drop enemies' Will via club and spells but also raise your accuracy by +20 (FoD+10, Ring +10). 

If you don't like Steel Garrote then Kind Wayfarer also works nicely. Instead of draining twice you will heal in an AoE with white flames and drain health with Draining Touch. Also nice for Blood Sacrifice. Rest is the same as Steel Garrote or any other Paladin/Bloodmage: Lay on Hands with Wall of Draining etc.

---

A brutal combo can be Soulblade/Bloodmage. Citzal's Spirit Lance is awesome with focus gain and Soul Annihilation.

---

Bloodmage/Unbroken is also very good: Mob Stance, Kapana Tanga club with +2 engagement, Hold the Line, Draining Touch and Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage as well as an Essential Phantom. Enemies will get terrified and disengage, you and the phantom will deal incredible disengagement attacks with Draining Touch (remember: diseng. attacks get +100% dmg). Mob Stance cleaves are likely to kill enemies on the spot, leading to potential chain-cleaving and so on.

---

Bloodmage/Furyshaper: combine Draining Touch with Barbaric Smash, Bloodlust, Bloody Slaughter and most importantly Blood Thirst. Also Carnage profits from the high base damage. Summon a Fear Ward so you don't need to cast Ryngrim's spells. Do similar things like with the Unbroken but at higher speeds but less potent disengagement attacks. Instead of cleaving you will have higher speed and 0 recovery after a kill. Barbaric Smash + Bloody Slaughter does enormous damage if you use it as finisher against near death enemies - and costs nothing if it kills.  

Bloodmage/Berserker also works but is very tricky.

 

 

[Chaospread]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

But I guess the lash will stay low because it only scales with the Priest's dispositions - if those are in line with their god's dispositions. I suspect that wouldn't work with a non-priest. But I haven't tried. Maybe it works if you character adheres to Rymrgand's dispositions -  I mean you can accumulate disposition points as non-priest as well. Just don't know if that gets translated to the axes then.  Worth a try I guess

I bet it doesn't work, probably you need a mod for that.
Boeroer, what do you think about a Bloodmage/Chanter with self healing to gain health for Blood Sacrifice?

[Lonlon]

Thanks a lot for the insight 

After spending some time reading about the Sage multiclass I think i'll go that route (Helwalker/Bloodmage). I couldnt find any proper guide so I may have some more questions about a few things.

- Regarding Draining Touch, do we agree that it doesn't have any weapon type ? Does it scale with MuT or any weapon modal ?

- I understand why club modal is very strong but what about Tuotilo's ? Is it ok to use it when I wanna tank a bit more for whatever reason ? (I guess with the def/reflex per wound enchantment). I also guess +5 ACC enchant is better than +10% damage, am I right ?

- What weapons modals are "safe" to pick at character creation then ? Club + ? Is there a modal working with Spirit Lance ? Is it relevant ?

- For party comp i'm quite set with : Eder (fighter/rogue tank) and Xoti (full priest) but still undecided for the 2 remaining slots. Do you see obvious includes that could fit with this core composition ? My initial thought was Tekehu as full chanter or multiclass because I kinda like him and I also like chanter (or maybe Aloth but thought 2 wizards could overlap/ask to much micromanagment), + a custom recruit that would fill the gaps in my comp, something easy to manage but still helpful (I was thinking about a Ranger/Cipher: ranger cause it stays far and do not need a lot of management, and Cipher just because it could be a nice thing to have probably, but I'm honestly not sure about this one...). I already did the Troubadour/Psion sidekick in one of my playthrough and I want to innovate a bit

- For attributes I was about to go something like this : 8/13/16/19/18/4 (as human, BB should be added on top of that). I bet it's ok to dump RES because of all the defensive buffs Wizard features. I kept MIG low so i dont oneshot myself with blood sacrifice all the time. what else can I say.. is 13 CON (+2 BB) enough for Helwalker wounds + blood sac not beeing cringe ? Also human seems good to me but maybe there's some obviously stronger pick ?

- While leveling I was about to pick mainly monk skills or wizard passives and let grimoires give me access to all the wizard spells repertoire. Is it a good plan ? If I need to pick some wizard spells i'm sure to use all the time, what those would be ?

- And lastly : what important gear should I aim for (appart from those already mentioned in this thread) ? again any obvious things I should not miss out on ?

Thanks again for your anwsers, helps me a lot 

Edited January 28 by Lonlon

[Chaospread]

31 minutes ago, Lonlon said:

Regarding Draining Touch, do we agree that it doesn't have any weapon type ? Does it scale with MuT or any weapon modal ?

No weapon type, it scales with your level.

32 minutes ago, Lonlon said:

I understand why club modal is very strong but what about Tuotilo's ? Is it ok to use it when I wanna tank a bit more for whatever reason ? (I guess with the def/reflex per wound enchantment). I also guess +5 ACC enchant is better than +10% damage, am I right ?

In a party you can get so many acc buff that I'd say better is +10% damage. But with mega bosses maybe better +5 acc, if you wanna make them.

33 minutes ago, Lonlon said:

What weapons modals are "safe" to pick at character creation then ? Club + ? Is there a modal working with Spirit Lance ? Is it relevant ?

Pick club. You'll ended with so many modals that it doesn't matter, you can pick Pike, small shield for Tuotilo's and so on...

Party. I think a Cipher like Serafen could be good, also a Ranger as Maia, or pick Ydwin and you can use her as a Cipher and ranged Rogue.

Attributes: 11/10/16/18/19/4 is better to me. Max int. No MIG below 10. CON 10 should be enough.

38 minutes ago, Lonlon said:

While leveling I was about to pick mainly monk skills or wizard passives and let grimoires give me access to all the wizard spells repertoire. Is it a good plan ? If I need to pick some wizard spells i'm sure to use all the time, what those would be ?

Yes, better pick monk abilities. Take only one or two spell you are always going to use, i.e. if you go with Citzal's Spirit Lance "route"/build, pick that one. You can always respec in any case and you must take some wizard. abilities, but favour passives as rapid casting, and elmental talents. Use mandatory ability points of wizard for "shared" passives like improved Critical, styles and so on, so you can have more monk exclusive abilties to put points on.
Other spells you can pick: self buffs as fleet fleet, DAoM, Merciless Gaze, Infuse of Vital Essence. Low level spells which are effective also at last levels.

About equipment, above all Mortification Bindings.

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, Chaospread said:

Boeroer, what do you think about a Bloodmage/Chanter with self healing to gain health for Blood Sacrifice?

Wizard/Chanter is always interesting because you can prolong all benefical effects with Wall of Draining, including effects from chants (including Ancient Memory and Mercy and Kindness) even though you don't sing them anymore.

2 hours ago, Lonlon said:

- Regarding Draining Touch, do we agree that it doesn't have any weapon type ? Does it scale with MuT or any weapon modal ?

That is correct. It scales with character level but has no weapon proficiency (modal). Thus it is not great for Devoted. Since it already scales with character level it does not scale with Transcendent Suffering or Monastic Unarmed Training.

2 hours ago, Lonlon said:

- I understand why club modal is very strong but what about Tuotilo's ? Is it ok to use it when I wanna tank a bit more for whatever reason ? (I guess with the def/reflex per wound enchantment). I also guess +5 ACC enchant is better than +10% damage, am I right ?

Sure. It's also good to have a setup of fist + Tuotilo's Palm for backup. There might be enemies who are quite resistant or even immune to corrode damage (which is the damage type of Draining Touch).
I personally value +5ACC over +10% damage. It's only additive damage and the bash (which counts as unarmed) as well as the fists base damage isn't so high that +10% means a lot. The bash does 8-10 or 9 base damage on average. +10% means +1 dmg per bash. Fists are 14-19, so 16.5 on average base dmg. +10% means additional 1.7 crush damage per strike. It's more if you use abilites because they scale up the base damage with Power Level a bit. But still... not my favorite enchantment. +5 ACC is more useful imo.

Ah, by the way: Draining Touch does not cause Deep Wounds (Rogue) because it does not deal pierce, slash or crush damage.

2 hours ago, Lonlon said:

- What weapons modals are "safe" to pick at character creation then ? Club + ? Is there a modal working with Spirit Lance ? Is it relevant ?

depends on what you plan to use. the Pike modal works for Spirit Lance - but only the initial target, not the AoE. It redices enemies deflection by 10. This can be helpful against high deflection enemies. You only need to graze and their deflection drops by 10. It's nice imo. As most modals you must decide when it's worth turning on and when not. 

2 hours ago, Lonlon said:

- For attributes I was about to go something like this : 8/13/16/19/18/4 (as human, BB should be added on top of that). I bet it's ok to dump RES because of all the defensive buffs Wizard features. I kept MIG low so i dont oneshot myself with blood sacrifice all the time. what else can I say.. is 13 CON (+2 BB) enough for Helwalker wounds + blood sac not beeing cringe ? Also human seems good to me but maybe there's some obviously stronger pick ?

Seems good to me. Human would be my pick, too. Fighting Spirit is so easy to trigger with a Bloodmage.

2 hours ago, Lonlon said:

I already did the Troubadour/Psion sidekick in one of my playthrough and I want to innovate a bit

Puh... so many options...  I really like quick reloading, high ACC arbalest shooters as low-maintenance party members most of the time - but they can be extrmely valuable when they pin down difficult enemies with their modal. Something like Ranger/Paladin, Ranger/Chanter, Ranger/Cipher, Ranger/Rogue and so on.
Another nice, low maintenance party member with big moments I like is dual pistol SC Kind Wayfarer. But you need a Chanter in the party then, too (for limitless summons which can be turned into free Zeal via Divine Retribution).

3 hours ago, Lonlon said:

- While leveling I was about to pick mainly monk skills or wizard passives and let grimoires give me access to all the wizard spells repertoire. Is it a good plan ? If I need to pick some wizard spells i'm sure to use all the time, what those would be ?

That is the most effective approach. But the juggling of Grimoires can be a bit inconvenient at times.
Which spells you use all the time depends on you. I think self-buffs you almost always want to cast at the start of battle are good candidates.

 

3 hours ago, Lonlon said:

- And lastly : what important gear should I aim for (appart from those already mentioned in this thread) ? again any obvious things I should not miss out on ?

 Devil of Caroc's Breastplate heals per crit. I may be nice in combination with Blood Sacrifice. With AoE stuff like Spirit Lance I try to hit the 35 INT cap, so items such as Charm of Bones (+2) and Heaven's Cacophony (+2) are favorites of mine. Also Aloth's Armor (+15% AoE size) as well as the pet Loki (also +15% AoE size). But it's all not super important imo.  

[Lonlon]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Another nice, low maintenance party member with big moments I like is dual pistol SC Kind Wayfarer. But you need a Chanter in the party then, too (for limitless summons which can be turned into free Zeal via Divine Retribution).

I didn't know Divine Retribution proc'ed on summons' death. Seems quite effective indeed considering the healing potential of a dual wielding KWF. Quite a late game thing but definitely cool

Also for the ranger option I was thinking about Maia but I dont know if you can have Tekehu + Maia in the grp for all the DLCs etc (can't properly remember when some choices have to be done  ie: if it's viable to have 2 different "faction" companions in your party for the long run).
If I chose to recruit a Cipher/Ranger what subclasses would you advice ? (I cant tell what is highest-maintenance between Ascendant and Beguiler, one is doing Soulwhip Damage all the time but has those Ascended "phases" i'll have to manage, the other is gonna stop soul whiping when full focus... idk ). Maybe i'll pick a full Cipher (Psion ? Beguiler ?)... Maybe Ydwin, never played with her. We'll see.

I'll prob start my run tonight ! I'll come back when I need advices and to let you know how it goes 

Cant thank you enough for all this insight 

[Chaospread]

17 hours ago, Lonlon said:

ie: if it's viable to have 2 different "faction" companions in your party for the long run).

Very hard to manage. In this particular case, it is almost impossible to achieve Huana and RDC faction quests without one ot the companions leave the party (or both).

17 hours ago, Lonlon said:

If I chose to recruit a Cipher/Ranger what subclasses would you advice ?

Arcane Archer is a powerful subclass, I don't know which Cipher subclass is better with a ranger, since Arcane Archer is basically a damage dealer I'd avoid Psion and would go on Soul Blade and Ascendant... but wait for Boeroer and other for synergies and so on. Also Sharpshooter is a good ranger subclass by the way.
Ydwin is a nice character, i think she deserve a run and Cipher/Rogue can fulfill the same role of a Cipher/Ranger (and cover also others).

[Boeroer]

18 hours ago, Lonlon said:

If I chose to recruit a Cipher/Ranger what subclasses would you advice ? (I cant tell what is highest-maintenance between Ascendant and Beguiler, one is doing Soulwhip Damage all the time but has those Ascended "phases" i'll have to manage, the other is gonna stop soul whiping when full focus... idk ). Maybe i'll pick a full Cipher (Psion ? Beguiler ?)... Maybe Ydwin, never played with her. We'll see.

Arcane Archer/Ascendant is a good pick if you want to concentrate more on the shooting and less on casting spells: the soul whip damage is 10% less while not ascended, but increased while Ascended and soul whip doesn't turn off. This combo can use Spearcaster (+modal) to great effect vs. single tough targets for perma-prone. It profits from Arcana directly (which Arcane Archer wants to raise anyway) and gains great accuracy that way - and it proftis twice from Arcana if you use the Arcane Archer's imbued shots with it.
And then this multiclass can use Frostseeker against mobs. Frostseeker has the added benefit that it counts as elemental attack (no acc malus for Arcane Archer with auto-attacks) and generates focus superquickly against mobs (because the AoE that procs on crits also generates focus).

I played an SC Psion with a special attention to Puppet Master some time ago - and she was very impactful (SC leads to 2 more focus per second due to higher Power Levels). I'm sure Ydwin can also be nice as SC with a good setup even though she has to harvest focus the conventional way.
SC Ciphers can use Shared Nightmare which is pretty bonkers with any AoE weapons (except Wahai Poraga which doesn't scale its AoE size with and Keeper of the Flame bc. the AoE doesn't generate focus) and in combination with Reaping Knives on a party member. You'll have lots of focus quickly and then a huge AoE for your spells. Ydwin as Cipher/Rogue can generate focus more quickly, but then advances more slowly through the Power Levels (later access to abilities) and misses out on Time Parasite, Reaping Knives and Shared Nightmare of course. But as a ranged "low maintenance" party member the Cipher/Rogue works better I guess. 

 

Edited January 29 by Boeroer

[Constentin Lévine]

On 1/28/2025 at 9:53 AM, Boeroer said:

A hidden gem:

Internally, while Gambit is excutedand the game is calculating stuff, the Guile refund is NOT limited. It only gets cut down to max +2 per strike at the end. But while you are striking and doing crits the "internal" Guile counter can go through the roof.

Since the crit damage bonus of Gambit (+20% dmg per point of Guile) relies on the Guile you currently have l, this can mean that you can achieve huge dmg bonus numbers during the execution of Gambit.

For example with Hand Mortar+Blinding Smoke and Fire in the Hole+Chain Shot you can roll a ton of crits with every strike/shot and your internal Guile refund will skyrocket, giving you +200% dmg bonus and more for subsequent attack rolls during that shot.

Only after Gambit is done it is all cut back to +4 Guile (max).

oh ! Does that mean if you crit with Mohora Taga (example Debonaire + 100% crit vs Charmed with Gambit in chain crit), the red flag loop cause a evil tons of stacks for the damage bonus? 

[Boeroer]

31 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

oh ! Does that mean if you crit with Mohora Taga (example Debonaire + 100% crit vs Charmed with Gambit in chain crit), the red flag loop cause a evil tons of stacks for the damage bonus? 

I didn't try it out but it could. I don't know if there's an internal cap somewhere, but with a mortar I had often numbers around +300% in the combat log iirc. It isn't that obvious then because the individual hits of a mortar have low base damage. 

But how would you stop the crit chain so that the game doesn't crash? With 100% hit-to-crit conversion that seems hard to do. Maybe only use it when Guile is low...

PS: tried to test it, only had 3 Guile at the moment I used Gambit - game crashed. Lol.  

Edited January 29 by Boeroer