No dungeon left behind! Who else does this?

[omgFIREBALLS]

It used to be I waited with Raedric's Hold until I was like, level 7. And let me tell you, even with that degree of caution, one or two ToI runs have ended there. Sometimes I'd also wait with the temple in Gilded Vale until after some Defiance Bay adventures. Now, one of my principles is that everything available before Caed Nua is to be done before Caed Nua - even though this is mildly negative for powergaming. This has been working well, even though it means doing RH with my Watcher at 5 and the others at 4. Today I asked myself, what about doing Endless Paths before going to Defiance Bay? Since this is PotD + ToI I obviously mean all the way to level fifteen five.

Now, this was very different from clearing those levels in the midgame as pure chores to get to the interesting ones. There were a lot of narrow victories, narrow escapes and avoiding head-on fights, but every level was cleared... and then I accidentally double pulled at the entrance to level 5 and wiped. It wasn't my first accident, just my first accident that I couldn't fix by retreating.

I think on my next playthrough I will manage it, and then probably wipe in the spider cave because I decided to do Dyrford before going to Defiance Bay too. Anyway, does anyone else have a route through the game they just have to follow every time?

[Chaospread]

Hi, with one of my build:

I managed to do all quests and content before Caed Nua before to go to Defiance Bay (also Bear Cave, Gilded Vale Temple and Raedric). With right equipments it can be done. If you go solo, you have to pay attention to your build. Some build make some encounter easier (ie. Druid with charm beast and hold beast in the bear cave). I'd let Raedric last fight, temple in Gilded Vale and Bear Cave to the end.
In the build above there are a recap of my runs, but non so detailed before Defiance Bay.
Endless path before Defiance Bay can be managed until level 2, I'd avoid Ogre Level, if you wanna go for fight and not stealth, beside some builds can mange them (is. Cipher with Whisper of Treason or mage with Bewieldering Spectacle I think).

I hope this note can usefeull to you, have fun!
 

[Boeroer]

For Raedric's Castle I nearly always make sure to bring a Chanter with White Worms (usually that's Kana). As long as you don't reload the map and turn off the "gib" option in the game menu you can "reuse" the corpses of fallen enemies over and over again which is very effective at chokepoints where you can pile them in a small area.
So what I will do is to lure enemies to a doorway, kill them there, then lure more enemies to that chokepoint, kill them with White Worms, lure more and so on. At some point whole groups will get one-shot by White Worms' multiple corpse explosions. It's the easiest way I know to clear the whole castle whithout wasting too many resources. I like to loot all the rel. expensive plate armor and other gear (which grants a lot of money so early in the game).

I didn't actually try that with a solo Chanter - but I don't see why this wouldn't work solo, too. 

Edited January 10, 2024 by Boeroer

[Chaospread]

You could do Raedric's Castle also with a party with a Chiper and/or a Wizard. Put a trap near every NPC you can (not necessary but it helps), with a fast companion hit a foe and run to a choke point (bedroom door is a nice solution), then a tank block the way to all enemies while the wizard cast Bewildering Spectacle and the chiper cast Whisper of Treason against the enemy closest to your party, and in the meantime the whole group make ranged attack to no charmed/confused foes. Druids can cast Sunbeam/Insect Swarm/Burst of Summer Flame and Priests can buff party, another wizard can spam Chillfog below enemies feet. If you have a Chanter, put "White Worms" Boeroer tip on the top and you should be even better.
All first/second level spells/abilities, I think you can manage it with no high level characters (5 level party could handle it, I suppose)

[omgFIREBALLS]

Gee, and here I thought I had cosmic brained Raedric's Hold by rushing to Nedmar so I can rest all I like...

It all did work out on the second attempt. Did EP5 and Dyrford quests before ever going to Defiance Bay. Felt like seasoned adventurers coming in to help the puny citydwellers with their trivial problems. It won't be anytime soon, but stay tuned nonetheless for my megalomania causing me to try Searing Falls before DB too.

[Chaospread]

I made Searing Fall cave and Cail solo PoTD at level 10, so if you do Dyrford before Searing Falls, I think you can beat it

Edit: about Dyrford, there are Scaen Cultist who are imho worst than Searing Falls...

Edited January 12, 2024 by Chaospread
added text

[omgFIREBALLS]

7 hours ago, Chaospread said:

Edit: about Dyrford, there are Scaen Cultist who are imho worst than Searing Falls...

Yes, well, cough, when I said I did that, I meant I used the back entrance and just agreed to cooperate with Wymund, and then pillaged the dungeon. I can't remember the last time I bothered to fight my way through

[omgFIREBALLS]

So my new record is clearing everything in Dyrford, Searing Falls etc, bounties included, and going as far as clearing Endless Paths level 9. My balanced, sane and non-cheesy group party of six chanters is looking at the ambush room at the beginning of level 10 and saying nope.

...but if I could beat that room, I could probably keep clearing to level 12 and waltz into Defiance Bay looking for someone to reforge BotEP...

[Chaospread]

22 hours ago, omgFIREBALLS said:

...but if I could beat that room, I could probably keep clearing to level 12 and waltz into Defiance Bay looking for someone to reforge BotEP...

Absolutely no! Keep going down until... well, you know until "what"... or "who" I'm meaning  

[omgFIREBALLS]

I didn't keep going, but I think with liberal use of scrolls, I could have. And then, yeah, I might actually have been able to reach Sefyra if I got past that ambush. Would not attempt her though.

...then again, if I simply decide to free her instead, I could reach DB with EP cleared...

[Elric Galad]

PoE1 (and PoE2 for the matter but that's another story) have 3 early difficulty spikes : Eothas Temple, Caed Nua and Raedric Hold in roughly that order. You have no place to level up before Caed Nua so you have anyway to hit at least one of these walls.

That said, Raedric Hold final battle is by a fair margin the hardest of anything you can access before Maerwald. I tend to keep it for later. Also because kicking Raedric backwater bottom with ease is somewhat satisfying. So you strangled your wife ? See how you fare against Returning Storms and Fireballs.

If you go through the castle sewer, it's the only difficult battle though... Not going through the sewer isn't that difficult apart the final battle (worst case you go back to buy camping ressources) but I did it once, I was overleveled and it was horribly tedious and repetitive. I can't imagine how unbearable it would be while being still act I. I guess it is a matter of taste. I don't have much time to play, so... well... I choose to keep my battles at "cozy potd" level.

 

On 1/11/2024 at 11:33 AM, Chaospread said:

You could do Raedric's Castle also with a party with a Chiper and/or a Wizard. 

Ah, the mighty Chiper class. Great to turn foes into chips I guess. 

Edited Tuesday at 01:26 PM by Elric Galad

[omgFIREBALLS]

With a full chanter party, those are all easy  I even rushed Caed Nua just to not waste stronghold turns. Only did Against the Grain to get my Watcher to 3 before recruiting, and even that might not have been needed. Hadn't talked to the dead animancer yet, but this is a habit, probably because it grants the perfect amount of xp.

Anyway, I tried the ambush, well prepared with scrolls, and it went quite well. The pack in the locked room should have killed me, but unfortunately when I kite and flood with summons, some monsters just like to leash back, so I was able to take them down piecemeal. But, my journey has to stop at level 13, because without speaking Engwithan, I can't open the door, so unfortunately @Chaospread I'll have to, uh... spare Sefyra [Benevolent].

My party is level 8. My Watcher is close to 9. Maybe if I hadn't wasted trap xp I would have gotten all the way. I play mass chanters by chain pulling, since chanters are weak at the start of fights when they have no phrases, so I try to turn entire levels into a single, drawn-out fight, but sometimes my summons trigger traps in the process.

At this point I can't think of anything I could do before Defiance Bay that I haven't done. Well, I could take Sagani to her first quest area. That's about it. Maybe Durance/GM have some dialogue for me too.

I noticed by the way, that it seems Caed Nua doesn't get attacked before you've been to Defiance Bay.

[Chaospread]

On 8/19/2025 at 3:25 PM, Elric Galad said:

PoE1 (and PoE2 for the matter but that's another story) have 3 early difficulty spikes : Eothas Temple, Caed Nua and Raedric Hold in roughly that order.

And the worst of all: The Bear Cave!

On 8/19/2025 at 3:25 PM, Elric Galad said:

If you go through the castle sewer, it's the only difficult battle though...

Yep, going to sewer can be done whole by stealth  No battle needed.

On 8/19/2025 at 3:25 PM, Elric Galad said:

Ah, the mighty Chiper class. Great to turn foes into chips I guess.

Yeah, with a lot of cheese on top.
I've manage to clear (i.e. kill EVERY foe) all areas before Caed Nua PotD SOLO with a Paladin.
With a Cipher it would have been even easier  

[Chaospread]

19 hours ago, omgFIREBALLS said:

But, my journey has to stop at level 13, because without speaking Engwithan, I can't open the door, so unfortunately @Chaospread I'll have to, uh... spare Sefyra [Benevolent].

Oh yes, indeed, you need to go to Defiance Bay to speak Engwithan... good for Sefyra  

19 hours ago, omgFIREBALLS said:

At this point I can't think of anything I could do before Defiance Bay that I haven't done. Well, I could take Sagani to her first quest area. That's about it. Maybe Durance/GM have some dialogue for me too.

Or you can kill everybody and turn yourself in a very very bad person  

19 hours ago, omgFIREBALLS said:

I noticed by the way, that it seems Caed Nua doesn't get attacked before you've been to Defiance Bay.

[Chaospread]

On 8/19/2025 at 3:25 PM, Elric Galad said:

Ah, the mighty Chiper class. Great to turn foes into chips I guess. 

 I realized after some time  
Chipers, shorten Chips, are like Paladin and usually they go around as couple: