Optimising reload speed/dps for a scout?

[Tomucci]

Apologies in advance if this has been answered elsewhere, can see the topic of action speed is pinned but didn't really see a direct answer to how different sources interact, stack and are prioritised (hopefully i didnt just miss it), and I wanted to ask about how it relates to a particular build I'm planning.

The class is a scout (trickster / ghost heart).

Load out is scordeos trophy / Griffin blade.

Wondering how low I can get recovery on my pistol, and more broadly I guess how well this would work.

Reload time:

- 20% from gunner

- 10% from acinas tricorn

- 50% from pistol modal (may or may not use depending on situation)

Action speed:

- 36%+ from dex

- 30% from dual wield

- 15% from two weapon style

- 10% from Griffin blade

- 5%+ stacking from scordeos trophy

Recovery speed:

- scaled reduction in armor penalty from cutthroat cosmo

- 10% from miscreants leathers

So firstly, are there limitations on stacking from the same or different sources?

Is there a particular order these get prioritised in?

My understanding is that there are diminishing returns, so that when one bonus reduces recovery by x amount, the next bonus will reduce the remaining amount in the same way. So it probably wouldn't take long for these bonuses to diminish significantly and it makes me wonder if the red hand isn't just always going to be better because it's two attacks are essentially almost a true 50% reduction (apart from the second shots animation time) that aren't subject to diminishing returns.

On the other hand, I can keep the red hands damage bonuses by getting kills with it then switching out (I can actually get both tiers from waiting until I've maxed the dmg bonus before I upgrade and just not rest after that).

At this point the only bonus from red hand would be the rate of fire, but this can be weighed up against the unique bonuses from scordeos trophy, which also allows for something in the off hand.

Also if the diminishing returns are that bad stacking multiple effects would it be worth switching griffin's blade with something else in the offhand for a different bonus?

[Boeroer]

It may be that Griffin's Blade only affects the recovery of that weapon itself and not the pistol reload, but I'm not 100% sure. 

In the party a Chanter with Sure-Handed Ila can provide -20% recovery AND(!) -20% reloading speed for all reloading weapons. Both apply to those which makes reloading so much faster. So if your party has some reloading weapons it is very benefical to add said chanter.  

1 hour ago, Tomucci said:

So firstly, are there limitations on stacking from the same or different sources?

Not initially. It's just so that reloading weapons have a floor when it comes to reloading time - they can't be accellerated any more as soon as they hit hat floor. I guess it has something to do with the animation not being able to be played any faster.  

So you can stack pretty much anything on your list no problem. Nothing supresses each other if I read correctly. It may just hit that floor at some point and you have to find out when that is. With enough stacks of Scordeo's Trophy you will def. hit that floor at some point.
 

1 hour ago, Tomucci said:

My understanding is that there are diminishing returns, so that when one bonus reduces recovery by x amount, the next bonus will reduce the remaining amount in the same way.

No, action speed and recovery buffs have linear returns, not diminishing. What you described above is linear. So - mathematically it is worth to stack as many speed/recovery buffs as you can. The only dimishing thing is the floor that reeloading weapons will hit at some point - but that's outside of the actual recovery/reload maths.

1 hour ago, Tomucci said:

Is there a particular order these get prioritised in?

 Don't think so - but it also doesn't really matter. Resulting reloading time will be the same no matter in which order they get processed. 

1 hour ago, Tomucci said:

if the red hand isn't just always going to be better because it's two attacks are essentially almost a true 50% reduction

 No matter the reloading bonuses etc. the red hand will always be better in dps than other arquebuses because it profits from those reloading buffs just the same as the other reloading weapons and on top gets two shots for one reload (which doesn't take longer than a normal arquebus to reload). If it's better than a pistol build depends on other factors as well. For example the bonus of Scordeo's Trophy applikes to all actions you take so it can improve the character in other ways than just shooting.

1 hour ago, Tomucci said:

Also if the diminishing returns are that bad stacking multiple effects would it be worth switching griffin's blade with something else in the offhand for a different bonus?

Again, no diminishing returns. But imo a hybrid melee/ranged setup ist almost always inferior to a dual ranged or dual melee setup on a scout (or almost any class combo hoestly). You will hamper your Full Attacks (only one weapon will hit) - and the only valuable thing you get is: you will attack with one weapon alone while still getting the dual wielding speed bonus. If it's about wanting to restrict the attacks to Scordeo's only in order to stack the speed buff as fast as possible, then imo single pistol + modal is as fast as a dual wielding setup and has comparable accuracy and on top you can have a lil crit conversion from one handed style (scordeo's can have higher crit dmg). You could also add Eccea's Arcane Blaster as second pistol and profit from the raw dmg and the elemental dmg and also use Full Attacks (Crippling Strike, Wounding Shot and so on) to the fullest effect. Eccea's Arcane Blaster does really good damage with the right enchantments (not Bullet time - it doesn't work for example). But then stacking the Scordeo's buff will take a lil bit longer.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Boeroer

[Tomucci]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

It may be that Griffin's Blade only affects the recovery of that weapon itself and not the pistol reload, but I'm not 100% sure. 

In the party a Chanter with Sure-Handed Ila can provide -20% recovery AND(!) -20% reloading speed for all reloading weapons. Both apply to those which makes reloading so much faster. So if your party has some reloading weapons it is very benefical to add said chanter.  

Not initially. It's just so that reloading weapons have a floor when it comes to reloading time - they can't be accellerated any more as soon as they hit hat floor. I guess it has something to do with the animation not being able to be played any faster.  

So you can stack pretty much anything on your list no problem. Nothing supresses each other if I read correctly. It may just hit that floor at some point and you have to find out when that is. With enough stacks of Scordeo's Trophy you will def. hit that floor at some point.
 

No, action speed and recovery buffs have linear returns, not diminishing. What you described above is linear. So - mathematically it is worth to stack as many speed/recovery buffs as you can. The only dimishing thing is the floor that reeloading weapons will hit at some point - but that's outside of the actual recovery/reload maths.

 Don't think so - but it also doesn't really matter. Resulting reloading time will be the same no matter in which order they get processed. 

 No matter the reloading bonuses etc. the red hand will always be better in dps than other arquebuses because it profits from those reloading buffs just the same as the other reloading weapons and on top gets two shots for one reload (which doesn't take longer than a normal arquebus to reload). If it's better than a pistol build depends on other factors as well. For example the bonus of Scordeo's Trophy applikes to all actions you take so it can improve the character in other ways than just shooting.

Again, no diminishing returns. But imo a hybrid melee/ranged setup ist almost always inferior to a dual ranged or dual melee setup on a scout (or almost any class combo hoestly). You will hamper your Full Attacks (only one weapon will hit) - and the only valuable thing you get is: you will attack with one weapon alone while still getting the dual wielding speed bonus. If it's about wanting to restrict the attacks to Scordeo's only in order to stack the speed buff as fast as possible, then imo single pistol + modal is as fast as a dual wielding setup and has comparable accuracy and on top you can have a lil crit conversion from one handed style (scordeo's can have higher crit dmg). You could also add Eccea's Arcane Blaster as second pistol and profit from the raw dmg and the elemental dmg and also use Full Attacks (Crippling Strike, Wounding Shot and so on) to the fullest effect. Eccea's Arcane Blaster does really good damage with the right enchantments (not Bullet time - it doesn't work for example). But then stacking the Scordeo's buff will take a lil bit longer.

I'm also not 100% on Griffin blade but given the other upgrades you can spec into I think it makes sense for it to be universal action speed, should be easy enough to find out when I get it.

I'm going to add pallegina to my party, pain in the ass that she is, for that chant, and her funny interactions with other party members I also thought about making a ranged harbinger at one stage, there were synergies I liked but ultimately felt like I was going to be spending too much time with set up spells to use it the way I wanted, but scordeos trophy universal recovery speed bonus sounds like it might actually make it work.

I didnt realise reload speed bonuses were linear, that's a game changer, getting to that reload speed hard cap actually seems really easy. Also in my other weapon slot I was thinking about using the AOE shotguns for arterial / gouging / venom strike so less important to be able to use those on pistols.

Ideally I'll have:

Slot 1 - Scordeos trophy for main dps

Slot 2 - Ecceas Arcane Blaster for high armor enemies

Slot 3 - Dual AOE shottys to apply statuses

For slots 1 and 2 I'll play around with whether I want something in the off hand, you make a good point about the tradeoff, and once I heat up with scordeos I can probably turn off the modal to get the best of both worlds.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

[thelee]

10 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Eccea's Arcane Blaster does really good damage with the right enchantments (not Bullet time - it doesn't work for example).

yeah this is an example of that hard cap with reload times. Bullet time does set the gun reload time to 0, but you still end up spending some time reloading, and if you were already a reasonably fast dual-wielder or using the pistol modal, you barely see the difference.