Planning->Completed Shadowdancer (Forbidden Fist + Trickster)

[summatsupeer]

Edit: END BUILD POST (later in this topic if want to skip straight to it):

 

These are two subclasses (Forbidden Fist + Trickster) i've never completed the game with, just gave them quick tries but never together.  I've read a lot about these subclasses and seen them suggested as a good combination but there's a few things I'm not sure about, especially with a couple of ideas I want to try.  Will start with what I think I want and then how it will work, not sure if possible so feel free to suggest changes or additions.

Wild Oren for RES resistance.  Max RES and PER, don't min/max any of the others.

Key monk abilities:

• Iron Wheel (AR + CON)
• Thunderous Blows (MIG)
• Enlightened Agony (INT)
• Crucible of Suffering (FOR,REF,WILL)
• Parting Sorrow (wounds on disengage)

Key Rogue abilities:

• Mirrored Image (DEF)
• Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage (Sickened + Terrified)
• Reposte (Free attacks on miss)
• Persistent Distraction (Distract enemy -5 PER and Flank them)
• Deep Wounds (DOT)
• Deathblows (+weapon damage)
• Toxic Strike and/or Pernicious Cloud (Corrode DOT)

Key Items:

• Voidward (reduce raw damage from Forbidden Fist)
• Ring of the Solitary Wanderer (RES + reduce hostile effects)
• Tuotilo's Palm (DEF + wounds)

How I think it will work:

1. When required wounds available, use Forbidden Fist on target until applied Enfeebled (-CON, +50% hostile effect, -100% healing).  Activate Thunderous Blows (MIG). Active Enlightened Agony (INT) and remove self damage. Use Toxic Strike for massive DOT and more chance of it hitting due to FF's -CON reducing FOR.  If enemy is immune, then rely on Forbidden Fist more.
2. High RES, Mirrored Image, Reposte, Small Shield, Persistent Distraction makes you hard to hit and can trigger return damage.  Iron Wheel adds survivability for hits that do come through plus the self damage.  If damage from melee is getting too much, use Ryngrims Repulsive Visage to terrify opponents plus giving you wounds.

Questions:

1. I'm worried about how many high Guile abilities I'm planning to include, if they miss or get interrupted thats a lot of Guile wasted.
2. Any other key abilities to add?  I noticed there's some crit synergy between the classes but wasn't sure if there's enough spare ability points at right point. 
3. I was tempted to add Ring The Bell which does Raw DOT with one handed weapon. As its a Full Attack does this work if using Tuotilo's Palm to give 2 raw damage DOT attacks or at least 2 chances of 1 DOT being applied?
4. I really want to increase INT to enhance the self buffs and enemy debuffs/DOTs last longer, does this make Forbidden Fist self damage too painful?  
5. Possible to solo? The biggest issue I see would be Poison immune enemies which a lot of bosses are.

Looking forward to reading any input you have!

Edited October 15, 2022 by summatsupeer

[dgray62]

I think your plan looks good. Maxing PER and RES is what you will need. STR and CON can be 10. I usually have INT for a FF shadow dancer around 15, which is all you will need, given turning wheel. Even though INT will eventually be high, with high RES and clarity of agony you can keep the FF curse very short and use it frequently. I would add crippling blows (no need for the upgrade) and Confounding Blind (although you'll want Gouging Strike if you go solo). Escape is also nice for mobility. Those are all of the rogue actives I would take, along with Toxic Strike, which you definitely want, since it's devastating when prolonged by enfeebled. It would definitely be viable solo, although then you'd also want smoke veil to escape battle when necessary.

[Boeroer]

Looks good. I like that you use Iron Wheel + Enlightened Agony. It's a nice combo and yet few do it.

If you pick Swift Flurry/HBD and use Mohora Taga (unique spear from Cignath Mor) you'll have a double synergy: the DoT ticks of the "Red Flag Flying" enchantment raise with Sneak Attack and even Deathblows (automatically unlocked by Persistent Distraction) - same as the ticks of Gouging Strike, Ring the Bell, Toxic Strike and Arterial Strike. Those all don't stack with themselves but with each other, melting even highest AR foes with ease. At the same time Red Flag Flying, as a weapon attack roll itself, can proc both Swift Flurry/HBD which in turn proc an additional attack of the spear with again the Red Flag Flying on it and so on. It snowballs quickly... It is one of the best weapons to induce a deadly crit chain, maybe the best. At the same time Enfeebled makes sure the DoTs stay on the target way longer. You'll have alternative dmg to crush (fists/FF ability), too and the modal's +1 engagement can be useful for a tankish char (also see Persistent Distraction and Parted Sorrow's wound generation). 

A bash with Tuotilo's Palm can also proc Swift Flurry/HBD - which will proc main hand attacks! Also the enchantment of Tuotilo's Palm that retaliates can proc SF/HBD, but I still fine the alternative +defense enchantment better. 

That way you may create a very potent boss melter, mob crit chainer and also great defender.  

PS: Ring the Bell works the same with dual wielding (Tuotilo's) as with a single one handed weapon. You'll get two chances of DoT appliance, indeed. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Boeroer

[Constentin Lévine]

On top, I suggest to you to pick Skyward Kick : the Knocked down effect is vs Fortitude (-10 with Enfeebled) and the duration (1.5s) scale with PL and Int + 50% enfeebled. 

[summatsupeer]

Thanks for the feedback, so many abilities, so few points  At least if I don't mess up the base attributes and the classes+subclasses work well together I can try different abilities without needing a full restart.

@Boeroer Interesting weapon suggestion, I think i'm conditioned to not use piece weapons since they were so commonly resisted or immune in POE1. Not going to lie, i'm usually a bit scared of Cignath Mor as i'd always struggle with it but last run it was pretty easy.  I think because I got to there casters and Frightened them so I didn't get spells spammed at me.  Will be interesting how this character deals with them differently since really want to get hit by afflictions for the wounds + healing.

Couple of item questions.

Do I want to avoid raising defences (except DEF) too much so get hit by effects so I can remove them?  I'm assuming so when looking at items but please correct me if i'm wrong.

For head item i'm considering Mask of the Grotto Deep or Whitewitch Mask.  I think Whitewitch Mask would help in more situations but the extra INT + poison damage for toxic strikes is tempting.

Armour wise, i'm guessing I want some heavier stuff until I get to Iron Wheel, then can use lighter armour with better effects?

• Fleshmender - Healing and initial DR
• Cabalist's Gambeson - Even more hostile effect reduction (is there such a thing as too much of this?)
• Casità Samelia's Legacy - More DEF

Looking forward to giving it a go!

[elbe]

If you use Eviee as a pet (which is good for FF anyway) you can skip Wild Orlan and go Hearth Orlan for a bit more hit-to-crit chance or human for extra accuracy on bloodied.

Another good weapon on a shadowdancer is Stalker's Patience.  Persistent distraction automatically triggers the flanking condition for Ambushing which gives another +10% damage increasing with stealth.  Mercy strike also has nice synergy with SF/HBD chains.  It's not as game-breaking (in the literal sense) as Mohorā Taga but is less likely to crash your game .

I am not sure if the Wounding enchantment is a separate roll - I don't think it is but the DoT should still get extended by FF.  Come to think of it, does anyone know if the Wounding DoT benefits from Sneak Attack / Death Blows?  If so it might double benefit from those (as it is based on base attack damage so gets the benefit of SA/DB there, and then the DoT gets a further SA/DB boost?).

I really like spears on shadowdancers.  With the modal + Tutilo's Palm + Persistent Distraction you get three engagement slots which is great with Rymgard's Repulsive Visage and Parting Sorrow.  The Spear Modal malus is pretty negligible if you only activate it when surrounded, and if you are lazy you can just take Fast Runner and Long Stride to offset the movement penalty.

EDIT:  It didn't occur to me earlier but I also really like the role-playing aspect of a Forbidden Fist monk addicted to Mohorā wraps using Mohorā Tanga as a weapon...

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by elbe

[Boeroer]

As a Forbidden Fist I would not use resistances - because unfortunately they can mess with the wound generation so that you don't get any wound from a downgraded affliction (like paralyzed->stuck... stuck ends - no wound ).

Instead the goal should be that the durations become so short that it doesn't matter much if it's a hard CC or soft that hits you. Also if you use resistances you can't profit from the low-tier afflicton in the first place (even if resistances didn't mess up the wound generation in general).

Defenses can't be high enough imo. If there's not enough hostile effects incoming (never had this problem though) you can use FF Ability, Parting Sorrow and also Mortification of the Soul and Enduring Dance.     

 

On 10/2/2022 at 12:04 PM, elbe said:

It didn't occur to me earlier but I also really like the role-playing aspect of a Forbidden Fist monk addicted to Mohorā wraps using Mohorā Tanga as a weapon...

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

oops, double post sorry

Edited October 3, 2022 by Boeroer

[Constentin Lévine]

On 10/2/2022 at 12:04 PM, elbe said:

I am not sure if the Wounding enchantment is a separate roll - I don't think it is but the DoT should still get extended by FF.  Come to think of it, does anyone know if the Wounding DoT benefits from Sneak Attack / Death Blows?  If so it might double benefit from those (as it is based on base attack damage so gets the benefit of SA/DB there, and then the DoT gets a further SA/DB boost?).

The weapon effect like Wounding (Lacerating, Maiming, mortal Wounds) are not a separate roll, and dont benefit twice from SA/DB/Backstab! But it take into account every weapon damage bonuses including Lashes (Soul Annihilation excepted) in the %. Like Soul Whip, Draining, Battle axe modal etc. and Wounding Shot. 

But these 4 weapon effects are not applied again when already on the enemy (you need to wait the effect fade to reapply it), contrarly to Wound Shot or Boar attack, etc. So graze are a double penalty when applying the DoT.

[summatsupeer]

On 10/2/2022 at 8:35 AM, Boeroer said:

Mohora Taga (unique spear from Cignath Mor)

Just realised it wasn't even the place I thought

So far I have used two others as my main weapon that have interesting abilities:

1. Rannigs Wrath - 10% chance to recover immediately when missed be melee.  +10 DEF for 5s when crit.
2. Modwyr - Really didn't like getting Charmed / Dominated. Some extra Action speed and damage is cool, though the Half-Sword modal to get more pen lowering DEF is awkward.

[Boeroer]

If you use Swift Flurry you can try Sun & Moon. One can buy it early (if there's money in the pocket ). It's also a lot more likely to give you crit chains. It all starts to really go off as soon as you get Heartbeat Drumming though. Before that there will be the occasional mini-chain from SF alone, but only the combination makes it go like "holy ****" from time to time.

Swords are cool with a FF imo bc. they give you pierce and slash - and crush comes from the FF ability. Very versatile and useful against all sorts of enemies. 

For raising deflection (for a time) there's also Duskfall (easy to get and for free).

Players often overlook the Gladiator Sword. But it can get +1 PEN (which can make a huge difference offensively), +5 deflection when worn with a shield (see Tuotilo's Palm: +15 deflection with both when at 10 wounds) and +10% dmg (not the world - but still cool). It's not the most potent offensive weapon, but for a character who already has high deflection it's really nice imo - increasing returns and so on. I did a Streetfigther/Unbroken main tank with the Gladiator Sword + Bronlar's Phalanx and that dude was the silent star of the show both in terms of defense and offense. Not flashy though. 

 

 

[summatsupeer]

The damage side is great, the crits on mobs clearing them out, the raw damage stacks on Enfeebled enemies, or just FFing them to death.

I'm trying to just use my PC but do have companions with me, and the main issue I'm having is in some fights I get hit too much with damage but not enough afflictions.  I'm not using any +WIL, REF or FOR items or abilities, but there are quite a few attribute raising abilities/items (+CON, +MIG, +INT) and if using Morwyn at the minute that cuts all INT afflictions anyway and being Wild Oren gives RES resistance so the lower levelled Hobbled abilities won't hit him either.  I don't have Crucible of Suffering yet for example.  This leads to lack of healing and wounds, I did consider Mortification of the Soul but there's so many other abilities to select and I can use FF to gain wounds, albeit slowly.

Some fights I find Mirrored Image drops too fast (I'd forgotten it lowers the bonus each time your hit) so I end up using Llengrath's Displaced Image or both to try and avoid that initial damage spike, but thats probably hurting the possibility of REF afflictions which then hurts wound generation and healing.   I think I have Weapon and Shield Style which should boost DEF a bit, but also boosts REF to. I was considering switching to Duel Wield as I think Tuotilo's Palm is classed as a weapon, but that would lower DEF.

I think I need to use some trick of self affliction or just resort to companions dropping AOE abilities on him.

[Boeroer]

29 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

being Wild Oren gives RES resistance so the lower levelled Hobbled abilities won't hit him either.

That's why I didn't recommend Wild Orlan above. Resistances don't only prevent wounds from tier-1 afflictions but from all tiers. It's a little quirk of the FF's wound trait - so no resistances is best. 

To gain more wounds use Hylea's Talons. They will put a rel. short-lived hostile effect (DoT) on you that will give you wounds when it expires.

Shooting with a Blunderbuss+modal from time to time will give you wounds, too. 

Once you get Parted Sorrow you will get a wound from every enemy you engage and kill (because dying apparently counts as disengaging, too ). 

If you need more wounds and mortification you can switch to Xoti's Lantern right before killing somebody. It doesn't matter how you kill (spell or weapon or DoT or whatever): it will give you 1 wound and 1 mortification per kill.

In general the main way to produce wounds is using the Forbidden Fist ability. With maxed RES and the usual -hostile effect duration gear and (Enlightened) Clarity of Agony you should be able to spam it. If not you can use heavier armor and balance the recovery in a way that it's slightly longer than the curse duration. Nomad's Brigandine is nice because it gives melee deflection (and/or ranged - see Soul Mirror in combination with Riposte) while also being a heavy armor with high recovery penalty. If that's not slow enough you can check out the Patinated Plate. If you do it right you can spam Forbidden Fist non-stop, which nets more health than the curse will cost. All other afflictions and hostile effects (see Hylea's Talons etc.) will come on top. 

If you have a Druid or Wizard on the party then stuff like Tanglefoot or Binding Web are good sources of friendly-fire, short-lived afflictions. You can walk into the area where the foes are struggling with those spells and get some wounds in the process. 

 

 

[summatsupeer]

This kind of things frustrates me with POE games... so many hidden quirks that can have a major negative effect.   I guess its yet another bug in the game and not intended.  So frustrating when its something you can't change and I'm so far in I don't want to restart, just makes me want to play something else.

[Boeroer]

Well, getting hit by Terrify is super annoying and the same goes for frighten (can't use FF ability then etc.) so it's not too bad of a tradeoff I think. There's plenty of other stuff that you can catch. And as said the main source of hostile effects should be your FF ability. The rest is cherries on top. 

Add Hylea's Talons and you will experience noticably more wounds for example. And do more dmg.

 

[summatsupeer]

I was trying to beat the Kraken in Cignath Mor (don't have enough Might to destroy it to complete it that way) which is adding to the frustration, it seems to be a "counter" to my character as it is. 

FF does no damage since they're immune to Crush, also means my Shield does no damage, not sure if worth switching to a bigger shield or duel wield a normal second weapon for this fight? 

My lowest resistance is FOR, which they seem to target to inflict injuries?

I was hoping the Persistent Distraction ability getting upgraded due to the Kraken's Perception Weakness would be enough for the Tentacles to miss my Shadowdancer but he was getting slapped and picked up so much.  Wiki doesn't tell you any info about the Krakens abilities which doesn't help figure this stuff out.  I guess I'll have to just try it again and go line by line through the log to figure it out 

[summatsupeer]

Am max level now, its a fun build, nothing else i've played melts bosses (dragons etc) so quickly. Working through the DLCs before end game so lots of fighting left but wondering how best to improve the build.  The damage dealing is great!  Single targets melt with Enfeebled and the different sources of raw damage.  Mobs beat themselves to death and/or get Terrified and break engagement to get themselves killed. Sometimes the defences aren't good enough so looking at what I could do different to improve that side.  Some abilities that I don't really use are very early on so took since wasn't anything better.

Most fights I start with: Mirrored Image -> Llengrath's Displaced Image (if being hit too much) -> Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage (if not RES immune) -> Swift Fury -> Enlightened Agony.  Then start hitting the harder enemies with FF and Ring The Bell and/or Toxic Strike.

Build currently

Monk:

• Swift Strikes -> Swift Fury (more attack on crits)
• Clarity of Agony -> Enlightened Agony (INT + Hostile Effect reduction)
• Soul Mirror (Reflect ranged attacks with my high DEF)
• Rooting Pain (Damage and interrupts just to slow damage taken a bit)
• DoMP -> Iron Wheel (CON + DR)
• Parting Sorrow (Disengage gives more wounds, good for Iron Wheel but I don't really use wounds currently)
• Heartbeat Drumming (crits on crits)
• Skyward Kick (Knock Up and big damage and pen bonus) - Picked to use wounds on, don't really need/use it.

Rogue:

• Escape (Teleport and short +DEF) - Don't use much, possibly a mistake even if do it on the spot?
• Dirty Fighting (Crit chance)
• Blinding Strike -> Gouging Strike (Blind and Raw damage) - Don't use much since its single target
• Riposte (Chance of free attack when missed by an attack)
• Persistent Distraction (More Engaged targets and Distract them for -PER)
• Strike The Bell -> Ring the Bell (Raw DOT)
• Withering Strike -> Toxic Strike (Corrode DOR)
• Deep Wounds (Raw DOT)
• Deathblows (Big damage buff)

I also currently have:

• Weapon and Shield (DEF + REF)
• Improved Crit (More damage)

I've highlighted the abilities in red that I don't use much so could save those points for something else if there's something to help the defensive side. 

1. Uncanny Luck should be one, maybe another on Tough but they're mid/late and abilities i'm looking to replace are earlier so not sure if i'd have spare points at that point.
2. Blade Turning - I don't think i've ever tried it, the description says "Hostile Melee Attacks redirected to another nearby target for 3.0 sec", does that mean enemies?  It has a long cast+rec time and short duration but wondering if it could be a good option early for wounds until enemies get Terrified / Riposted to death.  Do redirected attack count as a miss so could trigger Riposte?
3. The Dichotomous Soul - A bit of disruption to reduce damage early?
4. Keep Escape but use it to start the fight for a short boost of +DEF?
5. Smoke Cloud and/or Pernicious Cloud so can Distract more than just those I've Engaged?

Items

• One Dozen Stood for its DR and to synergize with the Terrify disengagements.  Just got it so giving it a try but it makes casting at the start take longer. 
• Using Mohora Tanga with Spear modal for extra engagement and Tuotilo's Palm.  Considering switching to Dagger (Marux Amanth?) with Modal + Tuotilo's Palm at start of fights for extra DEF.
• Cloak of Greater Def (+DEF) + Voidward (RAW reduction) + Ring of Greater Regen (HP/S) + Undying Burden (Damage reduction and CON) + Strand of Favor (Effects) + Whitewitch Mask (Illusion). 
• I'm open to swapping anything but the main two I'd consider swapping are Shorewalker Sandles (RES) + Woedicas Strangling Grasp (MIG and Fire DR). I need to pick up Hylea's Talons to give them a try.

If I was starting again I would change:

1. Keep INT default and add more CON to help with early part of fights.
2. Use a different race.

Any suggestions on how to improve the defences would be appreciated, be it abilities, items or just better use of abilities.  Just realised I'm not using any potions (except health) or drugs, though I don't tend to like drugs for RP reasons.

Edited October 8, 2022 by summatsupeer

[Boeroer]

3 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

• Blinding Strike -> Gouging Strike (Blind and Raw damage) - Don't use much since its single target

You could open combat with a mortar shot with Gouging Strike + modal and then switch to the melee setup. That way you will apply the neverending DoT on a bunch of enemies, not just a single one. In solo fights I find this very useful since they usually last a lot longer than with a party and the endless but low-ticking DoT pays off its cost. It works best from stealth when you first lure many enemies to a spot with Dazzling Lights (Guile gets refreshed if you don't start the fight too soon after casting it. Don't hit anybody with the AoE, just place it somewhere the enemies should go to).  

3 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

1. Blade Turning - I don't think i've ever tried it, the description says "Hostile Melee Attacks redirected to another nearby target for 3.0 sec", does that mean enemies?  It has a long cast+rec time and short duration but wondering if it could be a good option early for wounds until enemies get Terrified / Riposted to death.  Do redirected attack count as a miss so could trigger Riposte?

Basically enemies are hitting each other. It ends when you run - NOT when you use Escape or Flagellant's Path or Bounding Boots. You can prolong the base duration of 3 with INT and Power Levels and so on. The redirected attacks don't count as misses. It will prevent Ripostes entirely but can be a lifesaver if you can keep it up long enough.

[summatsupeer]

8 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You could open combat with a mortar shot with Gouging Strike + modal and then switch to the melee setup. That way you will apply the neverending DoT on a bunch of enemies, not just a single one. In solo fights I find this very useful since they usually last a lot longer than with a party and the endless but low-ticking DoT pays off its cost. It works best from stealth when you first lure many enemies to a spot with Dazzling Lights (Guile gets refreshed if you don't start the fight too soon after casting it. Don't hit anybody with the AoE, just place it somewhere the enemies should go to). 

Yeah I guess to solo on highest levels got to make most of everything like that.  When i've used this character solo (with other characters stealthed at distance) i've definitely noticed how much longer fights take, especially once Guile has gone.  It's one of the reasons I wanted a way of using Wounds since they're unlimited.

8 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Basically enemies are hitting each other. It ends when you run - NOT when you use Escape or Flagellant's Path or Bounding Boots. You can prolong the base duration of 3 with INT and Power Levels and so on. The redirected attacks don't count as misses. It will prevent Ripostes entirely but can be a lifesaver if you can keep it up long enough.

I've rerolled to try it. tbh i'd misread it last time I played a monk and thought it was redirecting to a team mate.  It is interesting, i'd describe it as a temporary 100% Reposte so makes sense you don't get your own additional attack.  I'm trying to tell if by Blade Turning deflecting a weapon strike that has an ability, such as Blinding Strike that can be applied to the enemy it hits instead of me? I'm guessing its not a guaranteed hit either, there accuracy vs redirected targets defence.  With more INT and DEX it would be a lot more valuable since it uses Wounds but I only get a few seconds of it that aren't just recovery.  Seems like Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage is the go to ability for disengagement attacks unless the enemies are RES immune or I'm out of Guile.

[Constentin Lévine]

10 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

I've rerolled to try it. tbh i'd misread it last time I played a monk and thought it was redirecting to a team mate.  It is interesting, i'd describe it as a temporary 100% Reposte so makes sense you don't get your own additional attack.  I'm trying to tell if by Blade Turning deflecting a weapon strike that has an ability, such as Blinding Strike that can be applied to the enemy it hits instead of me? I'm guessing its not a guaranteed hit either, there accuracy vs redirected targets defence.  With more INT and DEX it would be a lot more valuable since it uses Wounds but I only get a few seconds of it that aren't just recovery.  Seems like Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage is the go to ability for disengagement attacks unless the enemies are RES immune or I'm out of Guile.

Blade Turning redirect all melee attack including abilities, and some spells : if you are into a wall of Flame or a wall of Many Color, you are not affected by these per 1s attacks and redirect them to a closer enemy (or ally). An enemy wit Cloak of Death or Piercing Sigil will take is own reliatation when attacking him with Turning Blade!

[summatsupeer]

On 10/8/2022 at 4:06 PM, Boeroer said:

You could open combat with a mortar shot with Gouging Strike + modal and then switch to the melee setup. That way you will apply the neverending DoT on a bunch of enemies, not just a single one. In solo fights I find this very useful since they usually last a lot longer than with a party and the endless but low-ticking DoT pays off its cost. It works best from stealth when you first lure many enemies to a spot with Dazzling Lights (Guile gets refreshed if you don't start the fight too soon after casting it. Don't hit anybody with the AoE, just place it somewhere the enemies should go to).  

I found if you let Enfeebled drop or they remove it via Constituton buff, when you reapply it the +50% hostile effect is applied again.  If you time the application of long DOT when Enfeebled is nearly ended, you can get multiple +50% hostile time effects.  I had one application of toxic strike up to 80s when dragon died, not including time that it had already ticked down.  Need a little luck in graze/hit/crit, if the starting time of the DOT is too low to 50% buff might not get it significantly higher then the enfeebled time.  Might be a known thing but I didn't expect it to work like that. I thought it would be like if you refreshed the affliction.

As fun as it is to get high damage numbers from toxic strike, I think its better to take Gouging Strike since the raw damage sticks forever, no one is immune and 2 guile instead of 3.  As I have spare ability points at start I'll take the extra item slot and take Serafens blunderbusses.

Starting fight with blinds applied should be a big help.  Only other 'solo' source I can see is bombs which are pretty cool to just drop at your feet with 150+ reflex.

Edited October 11, 2022 by summatsupeer

[summatsupeer]

Having major problems with Sissak in The Forgotten Sanctum, even with all companions helping never mind solo.  Its not even close, pretty much get insta-killed even with all defences I can stacked up and trying to blind / paralyze as many as I can.  Only way I survive a little bit is by Barring Deaths Door.  I feel like i'm missing something with this area though. I've tried grouping them up for blinding spells / Mortar shots, boosting defences, blinding / stunning / terrifying but once they summon weapons it goes rapidly downhill.  Tried just dashing to Sissak to get DOTs on them then withdraw to kill them first, but that triggers other spawns so even more enemies to deal with.

I never even considered this area to be an issue until I got here, last game my SC Barb cruised through it.  Though he did have great AOE damage plus Nimnoks cloak and great Fort defence to stop the raw damage Disintegrate / 1000 Cuts spells.  This characters worst defence is Fort, even with high hostile effect reduction they do more damage than is healed.

I could just skip the area of course but if I have something to learn, i'd like to.

edit: nearest i've come is by abusing BDD and Salvation of Time and then just spamming abilities.  Ended up just my PC, 4 Moon Spiders and a Vithrack Brute but they healed for more damage I could do, and even with 150+ deflection killed me before I could kill one of them.

Edited October 14, 2022 by summatsupeer

[dgray62]

Have you tried spamming CoA to minimize the duration of DoTs like disintegrate?

[summatsupeer]

23 hours ago, dgray62 said:

Have you tried spamming CoA to minimize the duration of DoTs like disintegrate?

I've beat Sissak now, I think I just needed to spam different disabling spells to limit the incoming damage more.  I think switching to Kapana Taga helped massively, since most enemies are weaker to Crush, the chance of Daze and extra engage and Flanking Immune (to keep DEF up).

I forget about the -5s thing applying each cast, definitely helps for those long times even when i've got ~25 RES plus RoA -50% and ate wraps / rested in Tikawara / Drank Potion Of Cleansing Purge (+3 CON helps).

The final battle with Oracle of Wael with all the beams was difficult to since didn't seem like CoA affected how the time of the beams, I couldn't see them in the info panels to tell.  I think i'm missing something about that fight to, destroying Arcane Channels didn't seem to do anything, I thought they might stun like The Animancer's Folly Endurance Trial in Seeker, Slayer, Survivor.

No Time For The Lost (Foe AOE Distracted, -10s hostile effects, +10 beneficial effects, Steadfast) for long time really helped. Plus Awe of the Death Herald (target frightened, might+per inspiration for long time).

Edit:  Was doing a big update with the final build in detail... pushed Ctrl+R accidently and lost it 

Edited October 15, 2022 by summatsupeer

[summatsupeer]

Just in case anyone wants to try this build here is what I ended up with, including what I would change.

Shadowdancer: Monk (Forbidden Fist) + Rogue (Trickster).

The build really relies on Soul Mirror, Riposte and Disengagement attacks to deal with mobs whilst using Enfeebled affliction plus DoTs to deal with strong single targets. With high Deflection, high Crit rate and Rogues damage bonuses' you can kill anything.  The part I had issues with was surviving but I'll recommend a few changes that should help.

This build isn't really about using the Forbidden Fist ability for damage, its more for the Enfeebled affliction or providing an alternative damage type.  I never really stacked it up because it had such a short timer vs the characters recovery/action speed.  Most of the characters time was spent casting with the character doing damage automatically.

Race

Orlan is best for the extra RES but DON'T USE WILD ORLAN, or any sub-race that has a Resistance as this will affect your wounds and reduce the number of afflictions 

Attributes

Max PER and RES.

I wouldn't add anything to INT or DEX, if anything I'd steal a couple of points from DEX to add to MIG and CON.  

As we aren't stacking up the FF ability, the self damage is less of a concern whose damage scales with MIG and length with INT, but you do have to be aware of it.  Not putting points into INT will mean less time on your abilties and DoTs but we can add INT through an ability and items.

Abilities

• Weapon & Shield + Soul Mirror + Riposte + Persistent Distraction + Mirrored Image and/or Llengraths Displaced Image + Ryngrims Repulsive Visage (if enemies not immune to RES) + Deep Wounds - Get Deflection as high as possible and cause enemies to disengage create a lot of passive damage. Need more Engagement as those are the only targets that get attacked when they disengage. Lowering there PER helps make them miss more often. 
• Swift Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming + Dirty Fighting for more crits and more attacks on those Riposte and Disengagement attacks.
• Blade Turning - Help defend against Resolve immune/resistant enemies or redirect abilities applied by there weapons.  Long recovery and not very long effect time.
• Thunderous Blows - More MIG and Pen so those Riposte and Disengagement attacks hurt even more plus more healing.
• Enlightened Agony - Flat 5s removed from hostile effects and halved. Hence want to be hit (but not too hard) with Fort, Ref or Will targeting abilities.  Smart for more Int helps with ability length.
• Iron Wheel - More CON so aren't too weak on FOR defence, plus more HP and DR to give time to heal.
• Gouging Strike - Use blunderbuss (or two) to apply this to AOE for the Blind and small but never-ending RAW DoT.
• Deathblows - Lots of extra damage if can apply afflictions to the enemy (Terrify, Distract/Blind).  If not solo should be easy for companions to do this, even if they hit this character it shouldn't last long help heal.
• Ring The Bell - The main DoT ability.  I wait until Enfeebled is down to a few seconds on the target, then use RtB which gets the +50% time buff, then wait for Enfeebled to end and reapply, giving another +50% hostile ability time.  If you get RtB high enough doing this, you can repeat the Enfeebled trick, let it end and reapply, unless Enfeebled crits and ends up too long that 50% extra doesn't add very long to RtB.

Theres not many points left, mostly early as nothing "key" there, I tried at various times:

• Escape - Handy and only one point.  50 more DEF for ~5 seconds can help in a bad situation.
• Parting Sorrow - Helps keep wound generation up when enemies die or disengage.  If don't need more wounds then skip.
• Arms Bearer - For the 3rd slot for Blunderbuss' opener.
• Two Weapon Style - Really not needed, most damage is passive or DoTs.
• Rooting Pain - Due to cast times, i'd be at 10 wounds most of the time, so this wouldn't trigger.  Small damage but the Interrupt was probably more use but very optional.
• Uncanny Luck + Improved Critical - More damage done and less taken. +10% more crit damage isn't much when you have Deathblows but against bosses with lots of immunities its a bit extra to help.
• Force of Anguish - Rarely used, would Enfeeble and apply DoT then kick the enemy away, especially if immune to RES afflications.
• Raised Torment - Handy to Stun enemies behind your target and use some Wounds up if Enfeebled applied and don't need to cast Enlightened Agony, Thunderous Blows or Blade Turning.
• Skyward Kick - Helps with single target damage, interrupt and disable them for a bit.
• Arterial Strike - I didn't tend to use as wasn't using Blunderbuss at the time and Guile is limited and lots of other key abilities use it.
• Toxic Strike - Same trick as RtB, damage numbers get silly BUT so many boss enemies are immune to it and 3 guile is too much.  Weakened is also wasted because you have Enfeebled from the FF ability.

Two great Watcher ability that synergise well for harder fights (1/rest):

• No Time for the Lost - Foe AoE Distracted, AoE -10s hostile effects and +10s beneficial effects, Steadfast.  Extra RES which you can't do otherwise.  +10s is great to extend short abilities like Blade Turning.
• Awe of the Death Herald - Target Frightened,  MIG & PER Inspiration for long time, no other ability gives PER for Monk/Rogue.

Main Weapons

1. Fire In The Hole + Hand Mortar - For applying Gouging Strike.
2. Mohorā Tanga + Small Shield - More accuracy, spear modal for more engagement, RAW DoT, more pen + damage with Survival skill.
3. Kapana Taga + Small Shield - Chance of Daze, more engagement + damage, more raw damage, Immune to Flanking (protect that DEF!).

Shield is Tuotilo's Palm once can get it.  Counts as weapon so two hits on Full Attack abilities, riposte attacks and disengagement attacks, two chances of crit so more chance of triggering more attacks!  More riposte chance or more DEF+REF per wound, either is valid but DEF is hard to increase so i'd take that.

Early/Mid game options (I used)

• Xoti's Sickle - Best early game option, adds a bit of DEF, more damage per kill (religion increases), and Raw DoT on near death enemies to help finish them.  Possibly applied by a Riposte or Deflection attack, so good!
• Marux Amanth - Extra Accuracy, burn AoE chance and unique ability Worthy Sacrifice.
• Sun and Moon - Two hits so more chance of crit and triggering more attacks.
• Rannigs Wrath - Extra Accuracy plus more from the Rapier modal, chance to recover immediately and extra DEF if your crit.

Main Items

• Armour - Fleshmender / Cabalists Gambeson / Garari Cuirass.
• Head - Whitewitch Mask for better Illusion level and free Ryngrim's Enervating Terror when Bloodied.  Mine lost its abilities (not sure why) so I switched to Heaven's Cacophony for +2 INT and added Shock damage per weapon hit (see a theme, all those two weapon riposte and disengagement attacks).
• Boots - Shorewalker Sandals for +1 RES. Footsteps of the Beast can be a handy way of applying another affliction to enemies to enable Deathblows.  If your confused it will help with wounds and healing to!
• Cloak - Deflection +7, need all can get.  The Magnificent Escape Cape is an option, gives free Escape but I prefer the simple always active +7.
• Gloves - Hylea's Talons for more enemy RAW DoT damage. Could apply to yourself but its a short DoT with all the hostile ability reductions which is self healed when it ends and gives wound.
• Belt - Girdle of Mortal Protection for more CON and crit reduction. Another option is Undying Burden gives same CON but extra Second Wind and damage reduction as you lost HP rather when your crit.  Even with 150 DEF I was getting crit cos some enemies had 200 accuracy.
• Ring 1 - Greater Regeneration for HP/S
• Ring 2 - Voidward to reduce damage from FF ability, Hylea's Talons and any raw damage applied by enemies until you can remove it with Enlightened Agony and your other hostile effect reductions.

General Fights

1. If can group enemies then Gouging Strike them with Blunderbuss.
2. Apply instant cast defences Mirrored Image and/or Llengraths Displaced Image.
3. Swift Strikes.
4. Enlightened Agony.
5. Ryngrim's Enervating Terror OR Blade Turning.
6. Thunderous Blows when you can.
7. If all abilities up use FF and pick your Ring The Bell target carefully as don't have lots of Guile.

I'm sure better players than me could solo with this but it was fun.  Just don't try and do too much, I was so focused on maximizing DoT's I was struggling as the main tank (or solo attempts) hence the adjustments i'd make but couldn't to subrace and starting attributes.   I enjoyed it so much I might try a solo run with it, maybe not on PotD though...

Enjoy!

Edited October 15, 2022 by summatsupeer