I have some questions (item - ability interactions)

[Zoda]

I want to try my hands at some new builds for my next playthroug, as my usual, well tested Watcher + Herald + Seer trio began to feel boring, but I'm not sure how some interactions work. I also want to take only 1 hired adventurer now (plus Edér, Serrafen and Maia).

So here we go:

Kind Wayfarer FoD heal proc + Frostseeker + Driving Flight: do I get 6 heal procs around the user? If so, I found my new healbot

Helm of the White Void + Spirit Frenzy: do I get the +10 ACC on auto attacks this way?

Refreshing Defense + any kind of self dot: anyone know what works here? Seems like the raw DOT from berserker frenzy does not.

Carnage + stuff: are secondary targets affected by modal abilities? does the prone proc from Burden work on secondary targets? Basically, anything but Lord Darryn's Voulge has any good combo with carnage?

This is it for now, but I'm sure I'll come up with more questions after I sit in front of character creation screen for another few hours

[dgray62]

I'm not sure about your first question, but you're right, if it works, you've found an incredible heal bot.

HotWV applies the +10 accuracy on any attack that applies an affliction, so I'm sure it would work with auto attacks while spirit frenzied.

Carnage, unfortunately, does not apply any modal effects or on-hit or on-crit effects, with the exception of Static Thunder from LDV, and also carnage hits with spirit frenzy apply staggered. It's the main reason this weapon is so great for barbs; definitely pick Spirit Frenzy if you're planning on wearing HotWV.

Edited August 11, 2022 by dgray62
Additional info.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Zoda said:

Kind Wayfarer FoD heal proc + Frostseeker + Driving Flight: do I get 6 heal procs around the user? If so, I found my new healbot

Frostseeker only procs one healing from White Flames. Multiprojectile/attack roll weapons like Blunderbuss, Frostseeker or Sun & Moon for example don't provide additional procs.
Driving Flight does not provide an additonal healing proc. The only way I know of from the top of my head to get more than one proc of White Flames' healing is to dual wield and execute a Full Attack (both weapon strike = two procs of healing). There was a thread once that explored the possibilities - and maybe there was some obsucure way to proc more heals... but if there was I forgot about it. Anyway: Frostseeker + Driving Flight procs just one healing. I tested it ingame right now just to be sure. 
 

1 hour ago, Zoda said:

Helm of the White Void + Spirit Frenzy: do I get the +10 ACC on auto attacks this way?

No. That's because Spirit Frenzy adds a second attack roll for the staggering which piggybacks on your auto-attack. The auto-attack itself is unchanged und thus doesn't profit - but the attack roll of Spirit Frenzy which staggers does profit. In order for the auto-attacks to profit from the Helm your original weapon attack itself must come with an affliction or affliction roll. For example a weapon like Concelhaut' Draining Touch or Caedebald's Blackbow will profit from the Helm. Iirc a Forbidden Fist attack also does. 

1 hour ago, Zoda said:

Refreshing Defense + any kind of self dot: anyone know what works here? Seems like the raw DOT from berserker frenzy does not.

DoTs only provide a single attack roll at the beginning at most (in case of self damage ther is none), the rest are ticks with no rolls. Refreshing Defense needs hit rolls to get triggered. Pulsing spells like Chillfog or Wall spells etc. which repeat an attack roll every few seconds will work, DoT effects won't (besides the initial hit roll if there is any). The best way to use Rfreshing Defene is to get grazed with -3 underpenetration a lot. So basically high but not too high defense and as high of AR as you can get. 

1 hour ago, Zoda said:

Carnage + stuff: are secondary targets affected by modal abilities? does the prone proc from Burden work on secondary targets? Basically, anything but Lord Darryn's Voulge has any good combo with carnage?

No. Carnage can be seen as a spell effect. The only things that come to mind that work with Carnage are effects on enemy that trigger on hit (see Combusting Wounds or Recall Agony and such) and also Spirit Frenzy (applies staggered to Carnage hits) and stacks of Lord Darryn's Voulge's Static Thunder. What also works is some universal draining effects like the Old Siec chant and Blood Ward (Furyshaper). Carnage cannot crit, so effects that happen on crit (see Blood Frenzy) are out in the first place. 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Boeroer

[Zoda]

Some more questions came to mind...

1. Instruments of Pain + Wotep: does it increase the cone by +500% to a giant cone? That'd be kinda nice with Soul Anihilation. Do the secondary AOE hits proc Hearthbeat Drumming? 

2. If I create a Fighter (not set on subclass yet)/Trickster that's focusigin on terrifying enemies to proc disengagment, how reliable would it be, would they actually have to move out of engagement range? I sort of know how the mechanics work on paper, but would like to hear about it from someone who has seen it in practice.

3. This is once again a question of how something works in practice. The build would be Steel Garrote/Streetfighter, with a chanter also chanting for additional 12% drain. I'd go human and aim for Voidwheel to get bloodied as soon as possible. Eventually only use Voidwheel until I get bloodied, then switch to Chromoprismatic. With all the recovery reduction, it could activate qstaff modal for +20 deflection (Nalvi on Edér + Abraham + probably Contender's armor and Helm of the Falcon). Reasonably high CON so being bloodied is still not horribly low hp. Could a build like this function as a main tank with proper setup?

Edited August 20, 2022 by Zoda

[Boeroer]

5 hours ago, Zoda said:

Some more questions came to mind...

1. Instruments of Pain + Wotep: does it increase the cone by +500% to a giant cone? That'd be kinda nice with Soul Anihilation.

Nope. It's a bit weird: the initial target can be attacked from ~7m distance (1.2 reach*6), but funnily enough the cone will stay close to you and not change at all. Some spells which are tagged melee do work with Instruments of Pain and give them 6 times their range. At this point I only remember Sunlance - but there were more. Maybe a Cipher spell was among them. I tested it all myself - but my old dried-up brain forgot most of it.  

Shared Nightmare does enlarge the cone though. But it's not accessible to multiclass Ciphers. 

5 hours ago, Zoda said:

 Do the secondary AOE hits proc Hearthbeat Drumming? 

This changed several times during the patching cycle but I believe they can? But Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming only procs the rel. weak single target attack, not the additional cone. Also Swift Flurry/HBD don't generate focus.

Offensive Parry however does generate focus (just saying). It also procs Swift Flurry/HBD. Which is a pretty cool feature for a Soul blade because it means he can gather focus while being in recovery just by getting missed by melee enemies.

5 hours ago, Zoda said:

2. If I create a Fighter (not set on subclass yet)/Trickster that's focusigin on terrifying enemies to proc disengagment, how reliable would it be, would they actually have to move out of engagement range? I sort of know how the mechanics work on paper, but would like to hear about it from someone who has seen it in practice.

It works and is strong if you can terrify enemies often enough - but it's not 100% reliable because the movement of terrified enemies is random. Sometimes they just crouch down, sometimes they just crawl around you. They have to actually leave the break the engagement by walking away too far, yes. But that's a very short distance so it happens often enough. Sometimes they leave, catch a disengagement attack and come right back and leave again to catch another. The best Fighter subclass for this combo would be the Unbroken. Especially later with Deathblows and Overbearing Guard the disengagement attacks become superbrutal. Of course best done with a high-dmg per hit weapon (so, basically two handers - although that prevents you from using one of the Unbroken passives that work with a shield). 

5 hours ago, Zoda said:

3. This is once again a question of how something works in practice. The build would be Steel Garrote/Streetfighter, with a chanter also chanting for additional 12% drain. I'd go human and aim for Voidwheel to get bloodied as soon as possible. Eventually only use Voidwheel until I get bloodied, then switch to Chromoprismatic. With all the recovery reduction, it could activate qstaff modal for +20 deflection (Nalvi on Edér + Abraham + probably Contender's armor and Helm of the Falcon). Reasonably high CON so being bloodied is still not horribly low hp. Could a build like this function as a main tank with proper setup?

I don't think this can work too well as a main tank. First of all it would lack engagement. Then the Quarterstaff modal doesn't stack with active deflection buffs and it doesn't work against ranged attacks. Gunshots etc. from enemy rangers and rogues are one of the biggest problems imo (see Boarding fights). You will be slower than with a shield setup so your defenses and your dps will be worse than with a weapon & shield setup.

Relying on hitting and dealing damage and then draining health to stay sturdy can be tricky. One hard-CC or a slowdown (Disoriented, Blind) or even an enemy with very thick armor which you can't penetrate well and the survivability will go down severely.

Maybe one can make it work with the right party composition. 

But a good off-tank it would be I think. 

I did a run with an Unbroken/Streetfighter as main tank - and that totally works and is a nice mix of defense and offense. I mean when we talk about Streetfighter as an ingredient for a tank. But this guy had a large shield and didn't rely on bloodied to speed up. Just got flanked a lot because: main tank.  

[Zoda]

10 hours ago, Boeroer said:

It works and is strong if you can terrify enemies often enough - but it's not 100% reliable because the movement of terrified enemies is random. Sometimes they just crouch down, sometimes they just crawl around you. They have to actually leave the break the engagement by walking away too far, yes. But that's a very short distance so it happens often enough. Sometimes they leave, catch a disengagement attack and come right back and leave again to catch another. The best Fighter subclass for this combo would be the Unbroken. Especially later with Deathblows and Overbearing Guard the disengagement attacks become superbrutal. Of course best done with a high-dmg per hit weapon (so, basically two handers - although that prevents you from using one of the Unbroken passives that work with a shield). 

I played an unbroken/trickster as a hired adventurer, but that build focused on pumping deflection and procing Riposte and since Riposte is a full attack, I used Tuotilo's Palm. I actually regret not going Devoted on that build in hindsight. Now obviously focusing on both terrifying enemies and deflection/riposte at the same time is a pretty big nonbo, so lower deflection would sufice.

As for the subclass, Unbroken's +10 pen is surely huge, however I can't terrify everything, and I would already have a lot of engagement slots + persistent distraction. At that point Tactician starts to become appealing, as it would allow to spam abilities. On the other hand, Unbroken could turtle up very effectively when terrifying is not an option. I think both have their merits. The Tactician/Trickster is more universal though, and could completely change layout without respeccing, if terrifying is not an option.

As you said, high damage per hit weapons would be most beneficial, and I remember reading your post about acquiring Citzal's great sword. Now normally I don't like to exploit the game engine, but this time, I might make an exception, as it feels like the ideal weapon here. Overbearing Guard + One Dozen Stood + great sword modal would resul in huge (and accurate!) disengagement attacks. Now that I mention it, a greatsword devoted/trickster focusing on riposte could be fun, and could also use WOTEP to change it up

Voidwheel + Refreshing Defense should also be a fine combo.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Zoda

[Constentin Lévine]

11 hours ago, Boeroer said:

It works and is strong if you can terrify enemies often enough

Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage can be casted several time in the same moment, to increase the chance to proc. Of course, an enemy already terrified will see the Terrified affliction refreshed, it is not bad because the effect has a short duration. 

You can take, as a shield, The Best Defense : the enchantment Terrifying to Face work on any weapon kill and, well, terrify nearby enemies. As Bashing Shield, that can be useful for you. 

I dont know why, but I thought Riposte only proc a primary attack.

[Zoda]

47 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage can be casted several time in the same moment, to increase the chance to proc. Of course, an enemy already terrified will see the Terrified affliction refreshed, it is not bad because the effect has a short duration. 

You can take, as a shield, The Best Defense : the enchantment Terrifying to Face work on any weapon kill and, well, terrify nearby enemies. As Bashing Shield, that can be useful for you. 

I dont know why, but I thought Riposte only proc a primary attack.

I never really considered The Best Defense. Honestly I haven't even read it properly it seems, just dismissed it as yet another bashing shield that's not Tuotilo's (I think I only ever did the Seeker path on one playthrough). Never noticed that it has damage scaling instead of deflection. Also Terrifying to Face seems super convenient for such a build, I think you might have just sold me on this one, and then Unbroken it is. The occasional riposts being being better is just icing on the cake. Shame that it comes fairly late.