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So Avowed is vaporware at this point


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It's not a disaster but I am getting a bit worried. Big project, new IP - it can take time. It is frustrating to not see anything after initial trailer, but it was also early trailer - XBOX showing off with stuff it has in works, without any of the projects ready to be shown. Bigger games can take a decent number of years to be completed and there can be changes in direction - it doesn't necessariily mean the game is in development hell.

I am not too worried just yet - it's been known that XBOX got a lot of games to show off, and they focused on the next 12 months, with big releases being Redfall and Starfield. We haven't seen Fable, Avowed nor Hellblade - from Hellblade at least we got gameplay(?) or in-engine footage.

I am disappointed, but didn't give up on the project just yet.

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I'm with you, @Wormerine, but the OP has a valid point. Apparently the game has been in development for almost five years. We got the vague announcement trailer two years ago. Then nothing. Complete silence. Not even tiny bits of info dropped here and there. Any and all comments about the game have come from either Xbox or from gaming journos and "insider" leakers. Obsidian has said literally nothing. And I for one believe that is not a proper way to do a game development. Yes, you don't reveal too much and you certainly don't make any promises. But you should definitely keep your diehard fans in the loop at least a little bit. This was Obsidian's way previously, to always be close to their fans, but after becoming part of Xbox seems to me like they've developed a certain arrogance and superiority complex and now see themselves as above their fans. :(

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1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

But you should definitely keep your diehard fans in the loop at least a little bit. This was Obsidian's way previously, to always be close to their fans, but after becoming part of Xbox seems to me like they've developed a certain arrogance and superiority complex and now see themselves as above their fans. :(

I don't see it that way - if anything I wish publishers/devs wouldn't advertise their games until they are close to release. See Bethesda - they tend to keep things to themselves until the game is at "coming together" point.

I don't know how old Obsidian acted - unless you mean crowdfunding Obsidian, which is a very different thing. We are not source of fuding during development so Obs can focus on making the game, rather then keeping fans engaged throughout the development process. They are also in the position to do course corrections - something that PoE1&2 would greatly benefit from. I don't remember hearing much about other not-crowdfunded Obsidian games - especially Outer Worlds were roumored for a long time before being shown. And Avowed is larger still.

Another thing is, that games like Avowed, Fable and Hellblade2 have a lot of importance to Microsoft - those will be first big budget productions made under Microsoft umbrella. A nieche unfinished cult classic just won't cut it. So far with Psychonauts2, Redfall, Starfield Microsoft didn't flinch from giving teams more dev time. I just hope everything is going alright there, as I really, really, really want Avowed to be good.

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12 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

I don't see it that way - if anything I wish publishers/devs wouldn't advertise their games until they are close to release. See Bethesda - they tend to keep things to themselves until the game is at "coming together" point.

Well, for me, that coming together point was two years ago when they released the trailer. That they didn't say anything the first three years of develoment I get and I agree with. But from the moment they released that trailer two years ago, they ought to have been more interactive with their fans about the game. That still doesn't preclude restructurings or changing directions; both Bethesda and Bioware have done exactly that with their big games even while maintaining a line of communication with their fans. That's why I never had any real concern or fear that I was not going to get my Starfield and my DA4.

Separately, when was the last time anyone from Obsidian bothered to post in this forum? I feel that interactiveness with us ended right about the time they folded into Xbox. We've not had an active community manager here in years. These things matter to me.

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43 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

Well, for me, that coming together point was two years ago when they released the trailer.

I see. To me that announcement meant nothing beyond Avowed being a thing Obsidian worked on - Like many announcements in that presentation I treated it as XBOX showing off their recent purchases rather then actual announcements. Specifically Avowed seemed like devs have nothing to show beyond a very basic pitch - very much like later Outer Worlds2 CGI trailer, or ElderScrolls6. 

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I'm not panicking yet, but I am moderately worried. If nothing new surfaces by the end of the year I'll start to wonder if Avowed will ever see the light of day.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sometimes it's better to just let it be and worry about it later. There's literally so many other things to do than worry about avowed. The less you think about it the better it will be(Probably)!

 

Edit: I definitely got obsessed and excited by the concept and trailer, but if they deliver they deliver if not then life will go on.

Edited by Katakinetic
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  • 1 month later...
6 hours ago, Vladale said:

Is Obsidian so big that it can work at two triple A games at the same time?

Avowed will be on the market years after The Outer Worlds, don't you think?

Depends what you mean by AAA. Neither Avowed nor Outer Worlds are humongous project by AAA standards. Last time I heard, Avowed had about 100 people working on it, which from what I understand is about Bethesda studio size, but well under something like Ubo project or Baldur's Gate3. If they indeed aim for AAA rather then something of Outer Worlds scale, then it is hardly surprising it takes that long. Look at Bethesda and how often they release new games.

Both Avowed and Outer Worlds2 got CGI trailers with no details and nothing to show. As far as I am concerned OW2 isn't that much farther in development then Avowed was when it was announced. I see no reason to believe that OW2 will release ahead of Avowed, unless the latter truly is in major troubles.

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11 hours ago, Ordo! said:

The Outer Worlds was out in 2019 so yes, if you are talking about TOW2 maybe it'll be the case.

Sorry, I mean TOW2.

5 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Depends what you mean by AAA. Neither Avowed nor Outer Worlds are humongous project by AAA standards. Last time I heard, Avowed had about 100 people working on it, which from what I understand is about Bethesda studio size, but well under something like Ubo project or Baldur's Gate3. If they indeed aim for AAA rather then something of Outer Worlds scale, then it is hardly surprising it takes that long. Look at Bethesda and how often they release new games.

Both Avowed and Outer Worlds2 got CGI trailers with no details and nothing to show. As far as I am concerned OW2 isn't that much farther in development then Avowed was when it was announced. I see no reason to believe that OW2 will release ahead of Avowed, unless the latter truly is in major troubles.

Screw the 3A definition. What I mean is I don't think Obsidian can make two games like PoE2 at the same time. I think the Outer World 2 and Avowed need more money than PoE2. And I have a feeling they are giving priority to The Outer Worlds 2.

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4 hours ago, Vladale said:

What I mean is I don't think Obsidian can make two games like PoE2 at the same time. I think the Outer World 2 and Avowed need more money than PoE2. And I have a feeling they are giving priority to The Outer Worlds 2.

Just so you know OW1 (80 staff?) was a bigger project then PoE2 (40 staff?), and both Avowed and OuterWorlds2 are bigger then OW1 (Avowed cenrtainly, not sure about OW2). 3D RPG will always be far more ambitious then retro isometric one. Obsidian has gained a lot of new staff after the acquisition, and have Microsoft backing to afford contractors if they need to. This of course might be a challenge in itself, but it is anyones guess how Obsidian is handling things.

What makes you feel they give more priority to OW2? All we got for either of the project is a CGI trailer screaming "we have nothing to show", quite literally in case of OW2. Granted, being a sequel OW2 should have an easier start as it has a baseline to build upon.

All until recently rumours about Avowed progress have been positive. Of course, that changed recently with no announcement being made, and Schreier's worrying tweet. Even so, it is not uncommon - unlike PoE1&2 Obsidian probably doesn't know exactly what they are making with Avowed so exploration, reboots etc. are to be expected. Some of the better game released had birthing pains, reboots and changes in direction. Change of directors is more worrying to me, as it means that something wasn't quite working out. Let's be honest, after PoE2 underselling this is Obsidian's chance to continue the IP they have created - they better get it right, even if it takes time to do it.

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3 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

Just so you know OW1 (80 staff?) was a bigger project then PoE2 (40 staff?), and both Avowed and OuterWorlds2 are bigger then OW1 (Avowed cenrtainly, not sure about OW2). 3D RPG will always be far more ambitious then retro isometric one. Obsidian has gained a lot of new staff after the acquisition, and have Microsoft backing to afford contractors if they need to. This of course might be a challenge in itself, but it is anyones guess how Obsidian is handling things.

What makes you feel they give more priority to OW2? All we got for either of the project is a CGI trailer screaming "we have nothing to show", quite literally in case of OW2. Granted, being a sequel OW2 should have an easier start as it has a baseline to build upon.

All until recently rumours about Avowed progress have been positive. Of course, that changed recently with no announcement being made, and Schreier's worrying tweet. Even so, it is not uncommon - unlike PoE1&2 Obsidian probably doesn't know exactly what they are making with Avowed so exploration, reboots etc. are to be expected. Some of the better game released had birthing pains, reboots and changes in direction. Change of directors is more worrying to me, as it means that something wasn't quite working out. Let's be honest, after PoE2 underselling this is Obsidian's chance to continue the IP they have created - they better get it right, even if it takes time to do it.

Thank you for the numbers.

I don't know why I have this feeling, I didn't try to analyze the real situation. Maybe because, if I'm correct, Obsidian announced Avowed before The Outer Worlds 2. Like someone saw how many copies sold The Outer Worlds and said "we have to make the second one now". 

I know nothing about videogame production. It just looks weird Obsidian announced The Outer Worlds 2 so soon considering Avowed exists.

 

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Actually we just don't have any infos on both Avowed and TOW2, and while Grounded and Pentiment are interesting (curious about the reactivity of Pentiment) I think it is strange that we don't know anything about the works of the majority of the studio. But if they need time they take it, I think this is a much healthier situation than crunch or anything else.

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4 hours ago, Vladale said:

Maybe because, if I'm correct, Obsidian announced Avowed before The Outer Worlds 2. Like someone saw how many copies sold The Outer Worlds and said "we have to make the second one now". 

 

Obsidian is definitely doing a lot of things at the same time. They have already worked on PoE2 and OW1 at the same time, so it’s more or less the same as before acquisition albeit with potentially bigger projects + two very small passion projects and some stuff that’s unannounced. 

Personally, I wouldn’t read too much into the trailers - they both have been vague CGI, meaning: we are not ready to show anything. Microsoft did a lot of purchasing and until this year had little to show for - so they filled their shows with announcements of projects their studios are working on for future release. I believe they showed Avowed and OW2 to bolster Microsoft brand (look at the cool titles you can expect from us on gamepass!) not because those titles were ready for official announcement (though for PoE fans it’s nice to know that Eora isn’t abandoned).

I was greatly disappointed to not see Avowed on this years E3 like, but then again with focus on upcoming year we really haven’t seen any of Microsoft heavy hitters (well there was Starfield, but it’s pre-acquisition project).

That said, by now I would like to know more - not release date but just what Avowed is supposed to be. I do think some worry is warranted at this point.

Edited by Wormerine
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5 hours ago, Vladale said:

Thank you for the numbers.

I don't know why I have this feeling, I didn't try to analyze the real situation. Maybe because, if I'm correct, Obsidian announced Avowed before The Outer Worlds 2. Like someone saw how many copies sold The Outer Worlds and said "we have to make the second one now". 

I know nothing about videogame production. It just looks weird Obsidian announced The Outer Worlds 2 so soon considering Avowed exists.

If your concern about these games is coming from a money/budget standpoint, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If there's anything clear about how MS is managing their game studios it is that they are giving them whatever resources they need to make their games. Not one of MS's studios has complained, or even had rumors coming out, that they are being shortchanged on resources.

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8 hours ago, Ordo! said:

Actually we just don't have any infos on both Avowed and TOW2, and while Grounded and Pentiment are interesting (curious about the reactivity of Pentiment) I think it is strange that we don't know anything about the works of the majority of the studio. But if they need time they take it, I think this is a much healthier situation than crunch or anything else.

I forgot about Grounded! I didn't read much about it, but I understood it was a big success.

I agreed, slow is way better than crunch. 

7 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Obsidian is definitely doing a lot of things at the same time. They have already worked on PoE2 and OW1 at the same time, so it’s more or less the same as before acquisition albeit with potentially bigger projects + two very small passion projects and some stuff that’s unannounced. 

Personally, I wouldn’t read too much into the trailers - they both have been vague CGI, meaning: we are not ready to show anything. Microsoft did a lot of purchasing and until this year had little to show for - so they filled their shows with announcements of projects their studios are working on for future release. I believe they showed Avowed and OW2 to bolster Microsoft brand (look at the cool titles you can expect from us on gamepass!) not because those titles were ready for official announcement (though for PoE fans it’s nice to know that Eora isn’t abandoned).

I was greatly disappointed to not see Avowed on this years E3 like, but then again with focus on upcoming year we really haven’t seen any of Microsoft heavy hitters (well there was Starfield, but it’s pre-acquisition project).

That said, by now I would like to know more - not release date but just what Avowed is supposed to be. I do think some worry is warranted at this point.

I would be happy if I knew which game they are giving priority. It isn't very important, but I'm curious.

6 hours ago, kanisatha said:

If your concern about these games is coming from a money/budget standpoint, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If there's anything clear about how MS is managing their game studios it is that they are giving them whatever resources they need to make their games. Not one of MS's studios has complained, or even had rumors coming out, that they are being shortchanged on resources.

It's more about why they announced both games. I guess one will come out in two years and the other in two or three more years.

But maybe Microsoft just push for announcements.

In anycase I'm playing Pillars of Eternity 2 for the first time right now and I haven't played the outer worlds yet. So, I'm not in a hurry.

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14 hours ago, Vladale said:

I would be happy if I knew which game they are giving priority. It isn't very important, but I'm curious.

It's more about why they announced both games. I guess one will come out in two years and the other in two or three more years.

So the question would be: how much, if any, overlap there is between the staff. Are they working off the same engine with needs of one game being prioritised over the other? Unfortunately, I have no clue.

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1 hour ago, Ordo! said:

MS clearly pushed for the announcement of Avowed I think, the entire conference of 2020 is just full of CGIs and promises.

I think you are right.

36 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

So the question would be: how much, if any, overlap there is between the staff. Are they working off the same engine with needs of one game being prioritised over the other? Unfortunately, I have no clue.

Yes, more of less.

What if Microsoft pushed for Avowed to show something and now is pushing The Outer Worlds 2 because good sales of first game?

The point is It will not be weird if we play Avowed in 2026.

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My expectation, from following all news sources pretty closely, is that Avowed will release in second half of 2023, and TOW2 in second half of 2024.

Obsidian has said they want to release at least one new game each year, starting with Pentiment (and full release of Grounded) this year.

Edited by kanisatha
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16 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

My expectation, from following all news sources pretty closely, is that Avowed will release in second half of 2023, and TOW2 in second half of 2024.

I hope you're right, and so maybe we would see Avowed at the TGA, or just a little blogpost to know what the game really is. 

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