What classes would you veterans here suggest for PoTD triple crown, and triple crown solo - if one does not want to - or intend - to use anything considered exploit'ish but beat the game with skill?

[Ouroboros226]

Currently PoTD - then trying triple crown.    

I only make my own builds, because I enjoy theorycrafting. But I always like to base this on all the information I can accumulate, and see what other people did in various guides of theirs etc. - simply to get deeper knowledge of interactions and systems to build my character around. The issue with trying to google and research characters for triple crown and triple crown solo, is that I mostly  found what I'd consider to be cheesy, abusive or exploitative. 

I'm basically asking those of you that are veterans here. What builds, would you recommend for triple crown and triple crown solo, where you need to use personal skill - and not rely on exploits, abuse of AI or cheesing the game?

What builds can beat these and feel EARNED?

Current plan for triple crown solo at least, is a shifter/assassin. Being able to stealth out of combat if it goes badly, but still being vulnerable sounds like an adrenaline rush. For triple crown - party. I was considering herald as with my current potd run, but It's very boring and passive - and feels too strong for being such. So I was thinking a priest support, as I'm sort of a masochist and consider priest the weakest healing class, or maybe a shifter/paladin shieldbearer, playing a shifter tank getting +engagement from the paladin subclass. In any case, just wondering if anyone has any advice on this. I like challenges being earned and when I googled triple crown characters etc. - most people seem to focus overly on boring and passive builds, or strategies that include exploiting the game mechanics.  

[Not So Clever Hound]

30 minutes ago, Ouroboros226 said:

The issue with trying to google and research characters for triple crown and triple crown solo, is that I mostly  found what I'd consider to be cheesy, abusive or exploitative

Interesting question, but it would be helpful to understand what you consider as cheesy, abusive or exploitative. I fear it’s going to be rough to find a strong contender without some kind of feature that some would consider cheesy one way or another. 

Also, in late game DLCs there are lots of encounters you can’t just sneak out of and reset. Encounters go on as long as enemies live, and you have little space to maneuver. And by then, everybody hit like absolute trucks on PotD, with thousands of health points. I do love Shifter/Assassin solo but in my very humble opinion based on a fair amount of solo runs with other builds I don’t think it’s triple crown solo material. Even using a ton of arcana, alchemy etc. it would be subject to a ton of RNG.

IMO the game is balanced so that late-stage PotD is meant for a decently optimized lvl20 party. You will hardly be able to solo against those odds without some kind of Uber-synergy or unexpected mechanic (i.e. cheesy to some) to balance things out . 

[Ouroboros226]

Thanks for the reply. Sorry - I should have clarified - that was a bit vague.

Pulling only part of a group I consider ok. Like the drake before the starting ruin, if you fire a bow and run the 3 smaller drakes won't aggro. Using any traps, scrolls and potions is fine. Positioning smartly and using choke points isn't just ok, it's strategy which should be used.  

What isn't cheating but I don't enjoy. Is using strategies which don't require skill. Like a herald  The summons and super strong perma regen trivializes everything. Opposed to say, an assassin which requires lots of battlefield awareness, positioning and strategy.

What I do consider cheating, abuse and exploits - is basically any and all "strategies" that involve using the game engine and combat system against itself in an unintended way. That is, not dealing with encounters as the developers intended to balance them.  

  

19 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

IMO the game is balanced so that late-stage PotD is meant for a decently optimized lvl20 party. You will hardly be able to solo against those odds without some kind of Uber-synergy or unexpected mechanic (i.e. cheesy to some) to balance things out . 

 

That is a good point... do you think the devs actually intended solo triple crown to be a use-anything-you-can scenario? I want the achievement to feel earned. But maybe the devs designed it kinda like "do ANYTHING you'd like to make it" sort of.

[Not So Clever Hound]

16 minutes ago, Ouroboros226 said:

That is a good point... do you think the devs actually intended solo triple crown to be a use-anything-you-can scenario? I want the achievement to feel earned. But maybe the devs designed it kinda like "do ANYTHING you'd like to make it" sort of.

I’m not sure honestly but I think it’s more like “hey all you masochistic hardcore gamers who are going to find a million ways to break the game left and right, show us what you can do against impossible odds”. After all, they created The Ultimate! So it’s like they keep raising the bar, and gamers keep finding new, smart, cheesy or less cheesy ways to pass it. 
 

Anyway I think you should seriously look at SC Monk if you haven’t already, maybe SC FF or SC Nalpazca. Or SC Helwalker if you like to suffer. Maybe it will fit your requirements! Or maybe you also find those late game Monk abilities cheesy… they are a bit indeed.
 

But hey on another thread you mentioned IWD. I’m curious: for example there how do you consider a Solo Dragon Disciple bathing in their own Incendiary Clouds? OK cheesy or too much? Because there are only so many ways you can solo IWD at high difficulty and this is one of the few possibilities. 

[thelee]

I think you'll be hardpressed to do triple crown solo without some form of cheese, or at least something that someone would consider cheese.

For example, SC Monk is eminently do-able, but afaict pretty much relies on ajamuut's stalking cloak's cheesy synergy with whispers of the wind.

As another example, ironically the strong inherent sustain and summons of a herald I don't consider cheese. There's no exacting metagame or itemization to exploit, just a very strongly complementary set of classes in one package.

 

To me, I think pretty much anything is fair game in terms of "gamer bushido" with the exception of outright cheating via console commands. Personally, I would not find the strand of favor exploit rewarding. But even the latter, triple crown solo is hard enough [and you still have to find the strand of favor!] that really I would say "if it felt rewarding to you, then do it and bask in your glory." if you do something and someone says "hey that doesn't count, you used something cheesy" your response should just be "ok, then, you try it."

Edited September 7, 2021 by thelee