True Love’s Kiss not showing?

[Griffonheart]

I’ve stealth attacked many times with the dagger and I’ve never seen the DoT show up on any mob. It is an invisible debuff?

On a side note, I also don’t see Ring the Bell DoT show up on mobs when I use a blunderbuss (aoe), while gauging strike works with the aoe.

[Boeroer]

You should see it on the enemy. It's not invisible. It would look a bit like Gouging Strike: a hostile effect on the enemy with an icon and without duration. Note that attack from invisibility do not work, only attacks from stealth. You must use it in the main hand, not the offhand because stealth will be gone as soon as the main hand hits. Never bump into enemies before attacking - this will lift stealth. You may think you attacked from stealth but you didn't because it broke a millisecond before. Don't move up to he enemy manually and then order the attack. Instead order the attack from a distance. Maving targets are harder to successfully attack from stealth with a melee weapon. Wait until they stand still for a bit. With the ability itself I never had any problems. 
Never use Shadowing Beyond with DoTs (it will break), always use Smoke Veil (which will niot break on DoTs) when you want to flee after hitting from stealth.

The DoT of Strike the Bell/Ring the Bell only works when you use one handed melee weapons. Ranged weapons want Pierce the Bell. Check the description of Strike the Bell and the upgrades. Ring the Bell is for melee one handers, Break the Bell is for melee two handers and Pierce the Bell is for ranged weapons of all kind.

[Reent]

14 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

You should see it on the enemy. It's not invisible. It would look a bit like Gouging Strike: a hostile effect on the enemy with an icon and without duration. Note that attack from invisibility do not work, only attacks from stealth. You must use it in the main hand, not the offhand because stealth will be gone as soon as the main hand hits. Never bump into enemies before attacking - this will lift stealth. You may think you attacked from stealth but you didn't because it broke a millisecond before. Don't move up to he enemy manually and then order the attack. Instead order the attack from a distance. Maving targets are harder to successfully attack from stealth with a melee weapon. Wait until they stand still for a bit. With the ability itself I never had any problems. 
Never use Shadowing Beyond with DoTs (it will break), always use Smoke Veil (which will niot break on DoTs) when you want to flee after hitting from stealth.

The DoT of Strike the Bell/Ring the Bell only works when you use one handed melee weapons. Ranged weapons want Pierce the Bell. Check the description of Strike the Bell and the upgrades. Ring the Bell is for melee one handers, Break the Bell is for melee two handers and Pierce the Bell is for ranged weapons of all kind.

Shadowing Beyond doesn't break because of DoTs, i used it with my character today all the time (one of my 6 runs i play) however, i tested it just now and found a bug...

with my Assassin/Cypher the first attack has 145 ACC from stealth (155 with Gouging Strike), if i attack normally after that its 120/130 everything correct, if i use Shadowing Beyond after Gouging Strike (or after an attack, doesn't matter), i am invisible, however i still have only 120/130 ACC...

if i use Smoke Veil i have 145/155 ACC.

 

Shadowing Beyond stealth is fine to run away or reposition (tested it just now again, with true love's kiss), but it doesn't work with the assassin passive...

[Haplok]

That is weird. Perhaps some other effect is revealing your presence to the enemies. In turn based mode I've exclusively used Shadowing Beyond to get the Assassinate bonus. However there were some cases where I'd loose it.

For sure ticking spells (but I think those reveal you entirely) but also very loud incantation spells - particularly Freezing Pillar - it was almost never possible to finish casting it without being revealed.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Haplok

[Boeroer]

You must distinguish between stealth and invisibility. Stealth is the "scouting" mode out of combat when your circle has a dashed line. Invisibility is from stuff like Smoke Veils, Shadowing Beyond etc. 

Shadowing Beyonds does break from DoT ticks. I don't know what you mean but as soon as a DoT ticks it will remove Shadowing Beyond's invisibility. This does not happen with Smoke Veil. I played several times with a solo Assassin and it always was like that. Shadowing Beyonds was impossible to use effectively with DoTs in place. 

True Love's Kiss only works from stealth, NOT invisibility. I did a test in another thread some months ago, maybe I can find it again and link here.

Ajamuut's Stalking cloak works from stealth, Whisper of the Wind and Vanishing Strokes iirc but not from other sources of invisibility. 

As one can see different invisibility effects are all implemented differently (which is bad but that's how it is). 

Pulsing spells like Freezing Pillar, Chillfog etc. are not DoTs in this regard. They do an attack roll with every pulse - unlike DoTs which only do an attack roll with the first hit. Pulsing spells that deal damage will  break invisibility with every pulse. Only exception: Wall spells will not break Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure. But they also don't profit from Assassinate, so...

If you see other behaviours it must be due to glitches or mods. It if you are playing turn based it's maybe different there. 

[Reent]

Okay...

not what happens in my run.

(and i never play with mods)

here some screenshots i took just now:

1) Started a fight

2) i used Gouging Strike after that

3) i used Shadowing Beyond and waited for a damage tick and took a screenshot, i wasn't revealed

4) i used Gouging Strike again to look at the assassin bonus, nothing (and i could do it without Gouging Strike and it would be the same)

5) reloaded and did 1) 2) again

6) i used Smoke Veil and Gouging Strike after

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Reent

[Boeroer]

So weird...

I just now tested this, too (Shadowing Beyond + Gouging Strike with an Assassin - also used Backstab as additional indicator) and Shadowing Beyond does NOT break like it did a few months ago. At least not with Gouging Strike. There were no official patches in between - so how...?

Then I tried to attack from Shadowing Beyond - but I retained Backstab as well as Assassinate bonuses unlike you. My Gouging Strike from Shadowing Beyond's invisibility got me +25 ACC just fine. I compared with Smoke Veil and it did the same. 

After that I used True Love's Kiss first, used Shadowing Beyond and then did a Gouging Strike from invisibility and that's wen I also didn't get the Assasinate Bonus and also no Backstab. I thought it may be the DoT that is on the targe that triggers this. But then I repeated the test again, same setup and suddenly I did get the bonus. What the heck?

Something's off. 

I now also remember that arquebuses had a problem in the past with Shadowing Beyond and Backstab, too. Maybe that's another issue you are facing? Could you try to repeat the test but use a pike or so? Then we could see if the combo arquebus + Shadowing Beyond has a problem, too. I tested this now but for me it works like it should.

I guess the best solution for now is to use Smoke Veil and skip Shadowing Beyond. It seems to be quirky still - Smoke Veil is a lot more reliable in its workings.

 

 

[Boeroer]

I just checked Steam and there was a "secret" patch on March 2 it seems. Maybe it was done because there were some alterations needed for the Epic Game Store. And maybe those also got applied to the other versions? No idea...

 

[Reent]

Well...

i tested invisibility a bit more just now... and invisibility works differently depending on the ability that grants it (shadowing beyond/smoke veil the difference was the assassin bonus):

with shadowing beyond i can't do anything (at least almost? i can move...), no summoning with chanter, everything that interacts with the enemy (long nights chant), borrowed instincts with cypher...

heck, shadowing beyond stops if i use second wind

everything stops the invisibility.

With my bloodmage/chanter (Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure) i can use summons, CC invocations... as long as i don't use any damage ability everything is just fine... invisibility almost unbreakable... 

The test bloodmage/assassin i created just now could use call to slumber with Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure and stay invisible... with smoke veil and shadowing beyond - invisibility broken.

[Griffonheart]

20 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You must use it in the main hand

Ok,THIS I didn’t know, XD

Guess the opening would be Stealth -> Gauge -> Bell for DoTs.

[Raven Darkholme]

@Boeroer

I tested this over a year ago (maybe closer to two years, it was in the early stages of the Ultimate).

Shadowing beyond from rogue never broke on dot ticks.

However shadowing beyond from skaen priest breaks on dots even tho it looks exactly the same, maybe you played a rogue/priest?

As to Brilliant Departure while its true that many non damaging abilities AND wall spells (even the damaging ones) won't break it, dots will break it, so it's not superior in every way to Shadowing beyond from rogue.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Raven Darkholme said:

However shadowing beyond from skaen priest breaks on dots even tho it looks exactly the same, maybe you played a rogue/priest?

I did (Assassin/Skaen)!

I assumed it's still a 1:1 copy of the Rogue's ability.

I suspect they "fixed" Shadowing Beyond of the Rogue at some point and forgut the Priest of Skaen's version. 

Shadowing Beyond did break on DoTs at release. Iirc all invisibility abilities did. There were several complaints about it. I think it's very likely that the devs tried to correct this behaviour quickly but overlooked some stuff in the process.

After I used the Assassin/Priest of Skaen I pretty much never looked at SB again because it prevented the use of Deep Wounds and all the other Rogue's DoTs which I thought was a bit stoopid.  Had I known that both version are different now...