Returning player - inquisitor question

[superior987]

Hi All - I'm coming back after a few years and giving another shot at finally completing Deadfire.  I'm pretty set on MCing an inquisitor, soul blade and kind wayfarer (a little bit of RP seeping in - I struggle with non goody-goody paladins).  While it may not do the damage of some of the other soul blade multis, I like the idea of being more durable while still doing respectable damage.  I'm both curious as to how significantly relevant mechanics have changed since I last played around 3.0 and how badly those subclasses will be at odds with each other, given that KW kinda want dw while SA is a little better from 2h.  I'm leaning towards just using WotEP for cleaving SA - I assume that would be workable for Veteran even if it's not maximizing the damage/healing output from the paladin side?

[Boeroer]

WotEP also has the neat side effect that "Offensive Parry" generates focus which you can spend right away for Soul Annihilation. Paladin/Cipher can reach pretty high deflection due to Borrowed Instinct + Paladin's stuff.  

[superior987]

Well that's handy - thanks!

[dgray62]

If you'd like to use WotEP with an inquisitor you'd be better off choosing The Steel Garrote subclass rather than Kind Wayfarer, if you don't mind doing a "Dr. Evil" rational/cruel playthrough. This is because Steel Garrote paladins are healed when they damage an afflicted opponent, and Offensive parry not only damages and generates focus for you, but also dazes the opponent. This makes them extra sturdy. If you'd like to do Kind Wayfarer, you'll want to dual wield, to double the healing from white flames every-time you use Flames of Devotion. Naturally, there are many great one handed weapons to chose from, notably the Seeker's Fang.

[Kaylon]

One of the best weapons for a soul blade is Sun and Moon. With it you can spam Soul Annihilation without interruption (the second hit of the flail will recharge your focus lost) which will increase your dps greatly since the PL bonus will be applied to all your hits. If you add Tuotilo's Palm you can have the dps of a dual wielder and the defense of a shield user at the same time. On top you also get double healing from White Flames and free ripostes for more focus.

[Boeroer]

Which Riposte do you mean? From Tuotilo's Palm? Doesn't that have a major PEN issue?

[Waski]

 

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Doesn't that have a major PEN issue?

should be ok with MUT and hammering thoughts

[dgray62]

Doesn't either the Community Patch or the Balance Polishing mod fix the lack of PEN scaling on the bashing shields?

[Boeroer]

Only for the bash afaik, not for the counterattack. Besides the PEN the damage itself also isn't very high iirc. But I didn't even know it's good for focus generation so maybe I slept on this. 

[dgray62]

Thanks for the clarification, Boeroer.

[Kaylon]

 

16 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Which Riposte do you mean? From Tuotilo's Palm? Doesn't that have a major PEN issue?

 

12 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Only for the bash afaik, not for the counterattack. Besides the PEN the damage itself also isn't very high iirc. But I didn't even know it's good for focus generation so maybe I slept on this. 

 

Monastic Unarmed Training adds penetration and accuracy to its riposte too (since it's also a shield attack) and yes, it generates focus.

As for the damage it's comparable to stilettos. Maybe not great, but it's free and doesn't cripple your damage or your defense. Anyway, the WotEP hasn't great damage either (it hits like a dagger) and I would never use it as main weapon since its dps is below average if you hit less than 3 enemies.

PS. Other weapons worth using as a soul blade are Engoliero do Espirs and Grave Calling (their procs can refill your focus very fast vs multiple enemies, allowing quick kills with SA).

 

[Boeroer]

Ah thanks. I didn't know that Monastic Unarmed Training also influenced Outward Spikes. It's of course a no-brainer enchantment for non-Monks anyway.

WotEP's advantage is that Offensive Parry triggers on 100% of melee misses instead of only 20% and does generate focus + dazes. Soul Annihilation doesn't care about the weapon's base damage so that's not a hinderance. But even without SA: WotEP may have low base dmg due to the cone attack - but it also comes with a lash and +1 PEN which makes up for lower base dmg - at least a bit. Also it has reach (between normal melee weapons as pikes/quarterstaff) which sometimes helps to attack foes whom you wouldn't be able to reach with a normal melee weapon. 
 
The cone of WotEP does apply raw dmg to all enemies it hits with Soul Annihilation. It's not an equal number of raw damage though: the numbers will vary. The first enemy will get the usual raw dmg - but after that it's low and will climb up again with every attack roll. That is weird but quite good - espially if you can hit a lot of targets. It's true that this is not too easy: you need high INT or let's say a big cone to make good use of this, but if you get there then the combination of Offensive Parry (free focus generation on 100% of misses) and multiple target hit with raw damage is great. Paladin/Cipher can reach very good deflection due to the stacking of RES inspiration + Paladin passives + Borrowed Instincts so Offensive Parry works quite well imo. Especially with Steel Garrote/Soulblade.

Sun & Moon is also very good though. I don't disagree. A nice thing  of it is that it's very unlickely to completely miss with SA and waste all your focus for nothing - even if you're only attacking one single enemy; WotEP needs at least two enemies in the cone to have the same advantage.

I would say WotEP needs more setup and supporting items (deflection gear, INT stuff, AoE-size+ stuff) to be really fun. The setup with Sun & Moon is def. more hassle-free.

But still I would prefer WotEP with a Steel Garrote/Soulblade bc. of the 100% riposte + daze thing.

With a Kind Wayfarer I would opt for Sun & Moon + offhand weapon or bashing shield. Alternative for Tuotilo's Palm maybe: Magran's Blessing has that fire shield going on - it counts as melee weapon attack and thus also generates focus. Unfortunately it doesn't increase its PEN of 7 with shield quality. Scion of Flame and Hammering Thoughts add 2 PEN but that's still only 9 then (crits help but that's not too reliabe). Still adds a bit of focus when it hits and still is a bashing shield so good for attack speed and Kind Wayfarer's White Flames - but it would of course be better if it scaled properly. 

Speaking of Magran's Blessing (not related to Paladin/Cipher specifiacally) : the Fire Shield counts as weapon attack as I said and that also means it triggers Interrupting Blows, Stunning Shots, Swift FLurry, Heartbeat Drumming, Enervating Blows and stuff like that. For your next round of brainstorming build ideas...  

Edited April 2, 2021 by Boeroer

[superior987]

Super interesting discussion - if you use a 1h and bashing shield (specifically magran's blessing), is it affected by two weapon style? Or just sword and shield?  

[superior987]

Oops, nevermind.  Found the answer in another thread.

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, superior987 said:

Super interesting discussion - if you use a 1h and bashing shield (specifically magran's blessing), is it affected by two weapon style? Or just sword and shield?  

Both actually. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

On 4/1/2021 at 4:46 AM, Kaylon said:

One of the best weapons for a soul blade is Sun and Moon. With it you can spam Soul Annihilation without interruption (the second hit of the flail will recharge your focus lost) which will increase your dps greatly since the PL bonus will be applied to all your hits. If you add Tuotilo's Palm you can have the dps of a dual wielder and the defense of a shield user at the same time. On top you also get double healing from White Flames and free ripostes for more focus.

If a Kind Wayfarer attacks with Flames of Devotion wielding Sun & Moon and Tuotilo's Palm, will White Flames proc twice (as usual when dual wielding) or three times, given that Sun and Moon attacks twice, once with each head? If the latter is the case, that would be some serious healing.

[superior987]

Also curious - how essential is lay on hands if I'm a kind wayfarer?  Does it scale sufficiently higher than white flames to justify the non-offensive zeal?