Help me guys, you are my only hope! Turn Based-Mode Party Questions

[DarkOne7777]

I have some basic knowledge about the mechanics, I finished POE1 and played PoE2 until halfway trough and now I want to play turn based mode on potd.

It's been 5 days of reading forums and I still can't decide on my party(it will only have custom characters). I simply don't have enough game knowledge to judge the builds.

Here's where I'm at and what my questions are:

1. I kinda want a pure bloodmage since from what I read, he is a beast I want him to have all those sweet power levels so I don't want any sublcass.

2. Someone suggest forbidden fist/shieldbearer as my MC but I don't know how strong he really is a damage dealer and how good he will be as a tank. Someone said that it will be boring to spam forbidden fist 2 rounds then heal. Stats are an issue here since I don't know how much STR to get, is INT any good for him ? If i -resolve, will the extra debuff time affect him ? Seeing as I probably I will have a priest in the party and maybe another paladin, is there a better subclass for him ?

3. Ghost Heart/Sharpshooter(still can't decide)/Ascendant is looking better and better. I can play him as a Ranger for the first rounds, summon the pet to a enemy mage/ranger char and go to town and then just play as a cipher when I ascend. My main question here is about the stats, should I max int in order to try to get to more rounds for ascendant and if so should i not max perception seeing as the ranger has high accuracy ?

4. Berserker/Bloodmage - I will only play the game once, and I don't have much time to play it, maybe 10 hours each week. I was thinking about this class since it will be more fun to play. Is he really that good ? Is the damage high? How good is his survivability ? How much should int be ? If I end up play forbidden, wizard, cipher, priest/something, is the berserker too greedy ? Can I pull off a party like that ?

5. I really want a priest, the wael one. The problem is I heard the chanter is good too so my problem is this: if I make blackjacket/priest I will have another tank and he will probably be busy priestiing  If i make him priest/chanter, he will probably lose his tank status and I don't know how to juggle useing priest abilities and the chanter ones.

MC Forbidden Fist/The Shieldbearers of St. Elcga - Berserker/Blood Mage - Wael/Troubadour - Ghost Hunter/Ascendant - Blood Mage -- Any chance I can make this party work in POTD ? Will it be fun to play ? What changes should I make based on what I wrote ? If it's ok, any specific tips for each class ? Stat distribution, what skills, what items, what playstyle ?

I really want to start playing the game this weekend, I am tired of this endless theorycrafting, If anything, what should be my MC ? I can change the custom companions along the way. I'm guessing I can delete one character and buy another mercenary.

[DarkOne7777]

I also have some questions about the Assassin/Skaen. So he will just go invisible 3-4 times max per battle and hard hit someone.

Will he be useless after ? How good is he on POTD ?

[thelee]

7 hours ago, DarkOne7777 said:

I really want to start playing the game this weekend, I am tired of this endless theorycrafting

Does your gut push you to go for a specific build? If you roll a dice with each side assigned to a particular mainchar build, do you kind of, ever-so-slightly want it to come out with a specific result? If so, I would just go for that and not worry about getting the "ideal" build the first time around and instead focus on getting through the game with something that you're partial to and sounds fun.

I have the same anxiety about not getting the right choice when I do a game (really maddening every time I pick up a new RPG), and I just have to remember to embrace the fact that I'm not going to get it right the first time and it's more important just to move forward.

 

As for your specific questions:

7 hours ago, DarkOne7777 said:

Someone said that it will be boring to spam forbidden fist 2 rounds then heal.

it'll mostly be tedious, but if you automate an AI script it'll take care of itself.

also for a forbidden first, you generally don't want that much intellect (but I wouldn't dump it completely), and you want resolve instead, which helps synergize it with it being a tankier build.

 

7 hours ago, DarkOne7777 said:

My main question here is about the stats, should I max int in order to try to get to more rounds for ascendant and if so should i not max perception seeing as the ranger has high accuracy ?

absolutely invest in intellect, it's the main way to extend ascendant duration since it doesn't scale with power levels. you'll eventually be able to use items/pets/spells like Meppu or Strand of Favor or Ooblit that'll lengthen the duration, but pound-for-pound intellect is super important.

perception is pretty unimportant, as you say, because the ranger has so many ways to generate tons of it. the only reason why i would stack on any perception at all for such a setup is if i planned on taking on the megabosses and my ghostheart/ascendant had an important debuff i needed to land, at which point every point of accuracy counts. but even then i wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

7 hours ago, DarkOne7777 said:

f i make him priest/chanter, he will probably lose his tank status and I don't know how to juggle useing priest abilities and the chanter ones.

i played a lot of priests, and the most challenging build i had to get right was a celebrant (priest/chanter). while you can certainly put one together, but in my opinion it's hard to put together a satisfying synergistic build since there's so much unsatisfying overlap in their roles. on the other hand, fighter/priest is a real easy way to get a good synergistic build. you don't have to be a tank - the fighter offers a *lot* for a caster build (e.g. tactical barrage gives you a recurring acute buff, adventurer/conquerer stance makes you hardier and lets you use debuffs and damage spells more effectively, armored grace means you can be a caster and still wear medium or so armor without hurting your spellcasting badly, etc.) i would go for fighter/priest over a priest/chanter.

if you want a priest/chanter i would just pick up vatnir. vatnir's unique priest subclass comes with a lot of acid/decay/frost damage spells that synergizes a lot better with a chanter's abilities (eg shield cracks, ben fidel's neck was exposed, the long night chant).

 

6 hours ago, DarkOne7777 said:

I also have some questions about the Assassin/Skaen. So he will just go invisible 3-4 times max per battle and hard hit someone.

yep, so it's better to use spells when you can to really max out the effectiveness of those 3-4 hits (assassinate bonus on a pillar of holy fire is pretty brutal). and you should use smoke veil instead of shadowing beyond if you can (cheaper, more generous for stealth attacks, but you need high intellect and PL scaling and low recovery to actually get a spell cast done before smoke veil runs out).

you can get potions of invisibility. but there's also slippers of the assassin later on, which will let you re-invis upon a kill.

 

by my count assassin/skaen will be able to go invisible alot. 11 guile -> 5 smoke veils, plus 2 shadowing beyonds from skaen. self-empower and then you get 3 more smoke veils and 1 more shadowing beyond. that's eleven invisibilities, not counting an opening stealth attack or procs from slippers of the assassin. more than enough for a typical mob fight.

Edited January 22, 2021 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Iirc Smoke Veil is not a free action in TB and only lasts 1 round. So you can't go invisible and then attack from invisibility. Is that correct? You'll need to use Shad. Beyond since that is a free action. That limits the amount of invisibility uses per encounter a bit more. Instead of 5 Smoke Veils you can only use 3 SBs. Devil of Caroc Breastplate can lift you up to 4. Somebody correct me if I'm talking nonsense, I didn't play TB mode and am only repeating what I (think I) read.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

That's correct. You want Shadowing Beyond for action economy efficient stealth attacks in Turn Based mode.

So better make sure to have that Devil of Caroc Breastplate.

A non-bloodmage at least can use Empower to squeeze some extra uses.

 

That or Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure spell for CC/debuffing.

[DarkOne7777]

So i'm playing as Berserker/Bloodmage MC, Wael/Troubadour tank, Assassin/Skael future melee 1 hitter, Sharpshooter with bear(maybe I will change to ghost heart if I still get stuck)/Ascendant and bloodmage.

Besides the devil of caroc breastplate for the assassin, what other items are good for my characters ? Should I use a 2h or dual wield on the berserker ?

[thelee]

3 hours ago, DarkOne7777 said:

Should I use a 2h or dual wield on the berserker ?

i think on balance you should probably go 2h. there are some good 2h weapons that will benefit bloodmage casting (e.g. chromoprismatic staff or shea's war staff). a barbarian also really wants morningstar, because the weapon modal will lower fortitude defenses by a lot, and combined with brute force means loooots of hits and crits; lower fort will also boost some of your magic casting as well.

 

the only downside is the longer recovery versus dual wielding, which is sort of an anti-synergy for a caster who wants to be very reactive and responsive with spells. but i think the benefits outweigh the downsides.

[Haplok]

Well, if its Turn Based, the Recovery / Initiative is rather moot. But one attack per round? Ugh.

[Boeroer]

How long does stuff like Body Blows (modal from Morning Star) last in TB mode with decent INT?

[Haplok]

Hmm, about 2 rounds AFAIR.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Haplok

[Boeroer]

Then it's quite tricky to lower enemies' fortitude with Body Blows and then cast a spell that targets fortitude so you profit from the lower defense yourself?

[Haplok]

I think its doable (not sure anymore). But 2 rounds to pull of 1 action? That's bad (and painful) action economy. Have another party member "enabler" IMO.

[Desmodeus]

Planning to try TBM myself so few questions just to make sure:

1. Is it true that DEX is absolutely useless in TBM? Basically you will notice no difference between 2 dex and 20 dex character after first round?
2. How useful is pushing INT in TBM? some guides say that having int above 14 is waste of points as duration barely progress(like difference between Swift strike at Int 14 and int 20 is just 1 round)
3. As a continuation of above - is it even viable to make selfbuffing character in TBM? I heard that despite being free action, buffs rarely lasts more that 2-3 rounds, which makes character to just run dry without achieving anything. For example Arcane knight focused on summoned weapon and buffs will run dry on buffs(as in both no spells on appropriate levels and no effects on character himself) at round 7 no matter its int?

[Haplok]

1 hour ago, Desmodeus said:

Planning to try TBM myself so few questions just to make sure:

1. Is it true that DEX is absolutely useless in TBM? Basically you will notice no difference between 2 dex and 20 dex character after first round?
2. How useful is pushing INT in TBM? some guides say that having int above 14 is waste of points as duration barely progress(like difference between Swift strike at Int 14 and int 20 is just 1 round)
3. As a continuation of above - is it even viable to make selfbuffing character in TBM? I heard that despite being free action, buffs rarely lasts more that 2-3 rounds, which makes character to just run dry without achieving anything. For example Arcane knight focused on summoned weapon and buffs will run dry on buffs(as in both no spells on appropriate levels and no effects on character himself) at round 7 no matter its int?

1. The usefulness of Dex is very dubious (outside of boosting Reflex defense). In theory you COULD make a fast, agile character, focused on going first and interrupting enemies. But in practice its difficult to pull off, as the game lacks controls over turn order (delay simply puts you at the end of the round queque). So you can't wait until an enemy wizard starts casting, then go in and interrupt him. 

In practice its much better to let enemies come to your party and then counterattack, place aoes AFTER the enemies have moved (can't change aoe target in Turn-Based mode!). And focus on damage, rather then speed.

The other use of Dex is that it will reduce the time to Cast spells = reduce the window of opportunity for enemies to interrupt. The value of this is difficult to measure however. Enemies in a given encounter often share similar Initiative values and everyone goes together, without a chance to react for your party. Might be helpful sometimes to be faster. Again, I suggest waiting after the enemies have moved and only casting then instead (and hopefully not being disabled before by enemy CC! - well, staying in the back under Stealth at combat start helps).

2. Haven't done the math, but I did enjoy high Int (boosted via Infuse with Vital Essence during combat). You say only 1 round difference, I say 1 round is huge. Most non-boss encounters should resolve (or at least be decided) in like 3 rounds.

3. Blatantly false. The duration of buffs grows really fast and Free Action buffs are simply OP. Most buffs last 10+ rounds (something like 14, I think). Some shortest ones can last like 3 (Eldritch Aim and Deltro's Cage lash mostly), but its still great. Also you're forgetting Wall of Draining and Salvation of Time.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Haplok

[Desmodeus]

7 minutes ago, Haplok said:

1. The usefulness of Dex is very dubious (outside of boosting Reflex defense). In theory you COULD make a fast, agile character, focused on going first and interrupting enemies. But in practice its difficult to pull off, as the game lacks controls over turn order (delay simply puts you at the end of the round queque).

Then it is better to just keep it neutral? So there is no penalty to defenses.

10 minutes ago, Haplok said:

2. Haven't done the math, but I did enjoy high Int (boosted via Infuse with Vital Essence during combat). You say only 1 round difference, I say 1 round is huge. Most non-boss encounters should resolve (or at least be decided) in like 3 rounds.

Well it is just a question what will provide bigger boost then - this one round of buff or up to +6 point to might + Perception for damage and crits. Anyway it doesn't seems at least from your words that boosting int isn't outright useless

15 minutes ago, Haplok said:

3. Blatantly false. The duration of buffs grows really fast and Free Action buffs are simply OP. Most buffs last 10+ rounds (something like 14, I think). Some shortest ones can last like 3 (Eldritch Aim and Deltro's Cage lash mostly), but its still great. Also you're forgetting Wall of Draining and Salvation of Time.

Well from what I heard that was with WoD and SoT in mind. Glad to hear that it isn't true. I actually thought, before starting to read up on TBM mechanics to make Nature godlike Bloodmage/Bleak Walker focused on Staff and Pike summoned weapon. Basically summon weapon in round 1 then Mersiless Gaze + IwVE + DAoM into Flame of Devotion maybe with some Sworn Rival before it xD Glad to hear that this type of character will actually be viable

[Haplok]

1. Yeah, neutral Dex sounds good for me. 

2. Regarding Int, don't forget it also affects aoe effect sizes.

3. I'd guess a summoned weapon specialist can work, but personally I'm not a fan of weapon attacks in Turn Based mode. Even if that weapon is a lance with an aoe effect. A one large area spell (say, Ninagauth's Freezing Pillar) can accomplish so much more then a single attack... and in Turn Based both will use the same time segment (round).

Also the lance sucks vs pierce resistant enemies.

Usually the reason to go a more gish-y path is to conserve spells, but its not like you're gonna run out of spells slots in Turn Based mode on a Bloodmage...

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Haplok

[Desmodeus]

17 minutes ago, Haplok said:

2. Regarding Int, don't forget it also affects aoe effect sizes.

But it also one of the most easily available inspirations and +Int items isn't that uncommon(+2 available as soon as you reach Neketaka so

29 minutes ago, Haplok said:

3. I'd guess a summoned weapon specialist can work, but personally I'm not a fan of weapon attacks in Turn Based mode. Even if that weapon is a lance with an aoe effect. A one large area spell (say, Ninagauth's Freezing Pillar) can accomplish so much more then a single attack... and in Turn Based both will use the same time segment (round).

On other hand it is also significally less of an annoyance to prebuff in TBM since instead of very short cast time buffs are instantenious so no unpause/pause on cast in the beginning of fight xD

Well, there is also skully pet staff. They both scale to legendary so shouldn't fall too far behind. Though yeah, caster is quite cool possibility as well since I doubt enemies will ever use wait and if wait indeed move to the end of movement order, it shouldn't be problem to optimise enemy coverage with spells

 

P.S I noticed that Frenzy instantenious... Does it mean that I can just leap with Sarafen into a bunch of enemies and unload all rage into spirit tornado at once xD That should be quite a damage burst

P.P.S. What about Psion and Chanters btw? I read in ione guide that they both are close to useless in tbm as a casters. Psion pretty much cant charge enough focus in sensible amount of time and chanter has the same problem with phrases - he just cant recharge them fast enough to do anything other then autoattack

[Boeroer]

41 minutes ago, Haplok said:

Also the lance sucks vs pierce resistant enemies.

? The dmg type of Citzal's Spirit Lance is crush.

[Desmodeus]

27 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

? The dmg type of Citzal's Spirit Lance is crush.

Strange

[Carys]

re: chanters in TB.

My first completed TB run had my watcher as a MC Skald/Bleak Walker, and I had no issues at all with phrase generation.  Admitted, that could have been due to the MC combo, as I was DWing in melee, and using chants like Thrice She Was Wronged as insta cast, point blank AoE.  I didn't try any summomings as that was not her role in the group.

My core party was my MC, Barb Serafen, Druid Tekehu, and 2 Geomancers, Maia and a hired adventurer, which also gave me two pets, so I didn't feel the need for chanter summons.

I found Skald to be very powerful in TB.   I would imagine a summoner chanter, or a caster chanter, would be equally powerful, but I haven't played one yet in TB, so I can't be 100% sure.  I suspect that the passive chants might be slightly weaker, due to what I think is slightly less linger, but the invocations were not weak in any way.

[Powerotti]

2 hours ago, Desmodeus said:

Strange

It's piercing base attack, that triggers crush aoe

[Desmodeus]

14 minutes ago, Powerotti said:

It's piercing base attack, that triggers crush aoe

Don't you need actual damage from base attack to trigger AoE though? Immunity to pierce on main means no crush on AoE

[thelee]

1 hour ago, Desmodeus said:

Don't you need actual damage from base attack to trigger AoE though? Immunity to pierce on main means no crush on AoE

is this true? i think the aoe is automatic.

some effects require a hit (carnage), or crit (some weapons), but i've never seen an aoe that actually relies on actual damage to trigger.

[Haplok]

Not sure. But I do remember the Lance being ineffective VS pierce resistant enemies. 

[Boeroer]

4 hours ago, Powerotti said:

It's piercing base attack, that triggers crush aoe

Right

4 hours ago, Desmodeus said:

Don't you need actual damage from base attack to trigger AoE though? Immunity to pierce on main means no crush on AoE

Wrong

3 hours ago, thelee said:

some effects require a hit (carnage), or crit (some weapons), but i've never seen an aoe that actually relies on actual damage to trigger.

Right

1 hour ago, Haplok said:

I do remember the Lance being ineffective VS pierce resistant enemies. 

Wrong

;)