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I have been reading this forum and playing Deadfire for a long time. Really enjoy both :)

Not sure if this has been discussed before. I realised I don´t know how exactly the dmg formula of a monk/rogue multiclass sneak-attacking with fists would be (specially in terms of PL scaling). I am very curious about it since both are said to scale well with it. I have a few guesses based on TheLee´s guide and PL Compilation Thread, but I wanted to ask you guys if you knew about it.




SC monk, I believe the fists dmg scales like something like this?

BASE * (1.05+0.15*PL/2) * (1+STR...) * LASHES

Then SC rogue, the sneak attacks would be sth like this?

BASE * (1.3+0.05*(PL-1)) * (1+STR+WEAPON_QTY...) * LASHES


Finally the Monk/Rogue fist sneak attacks ... would it be like this?

BASE * (1.05+0.15*PL/2) * (1.3+0.05*(PL-1)) * (1+STR...) * LASHES

or would both PL be additive?

BASE * (1.3+0.125*PL) * (1+STR...) * LASHES


Thank you!

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Multiclass character caps at the base Power Level of 7 (Single Class can reach PL 9 and also take Prestige -> PL 10). You can add further "temporary" Power Levels with potions, items, inspirations and so on.

For the Rogue part in a multiclass that means Sneak Attack climbs from 30% (PL1) to 60% (PL7) additive damage. That's +5% per Power Level.

Monk's fists have a base damage of 14-19 crush (average 16.5) and 7 base PEN - but start right away with a bonus of +5% dmg (additive like Sneak Attack), +2 ACC and +1 PEN and then scale every even PL with +15% dmg, +4 ACC and +1 PEN:

  • PL1: +5% dmg, +2 acc, +1 PEN
  • PL2: +20% dmg, +6 acc, +2 PEN
  • PL4: +35% dmg, +10 acc, +3 PEN
  • PL6: +50% dmg, +14 acc,+ 4 PEN

..and so on. It's a bit like like enchanting a normal weapon with fine/exceptional/superb/legendary etc.

Note that nearly all damage bonuses besides lashes and PL-Bonuses for abilites (more about that later) are additive. That means you just take the base damage of the weapon (here 16.5) and multiply it with the added damage bonuses.

A Monk/Rogue at PL 7 would calculate his damage for auto-attacks like so:

DMG_1auto attack = 16.5crush *(1base damage itself + 0.6Sneak Attack + 0.5Tanscendent Suffering) = 35.65crush

Let's say you have MIG 15 and land a crit, then it looks like this:

DMG_2auto attack = 16.5crush *(1base damage itself + 0.6Sneak Attack + 0.5Tanscendent Suffering + 0.15MIG + 0.25crit)  = 41.25crush

With a 20% lash from Turning Wheel and a 15% lash from Lightning Strikes:

DMG_3auto attack = DMG_2auto attack + DMG_2auto attack * 0.2Turing Wheel + DMG_2auto attack * 0.15Lightning Strikes = 41.25crush + 8.25burn + 6.19shock


An abilities gets a +5% dmg bonus per PL (over its native one). That +5% is multiplicative. It raises the base damage. So if you are at PL7 and attack with Force of Anguish for example (native PL1,) your base damage will not be 16.5 like with an auto-attack but instead 6PL*5% = +30% base damage --> 16.5 * 1.3 = 21.45 base damage

So with Froce of Aguish at PL 7 the above calculation from DMG_2 would now be:

DMG_2Force of Anguish = 21.45crush *(1base damage itself + 0.6Sneak Attack + 0.5Tanscendent Suffering + 0.15MIG + 0.25crit)  = 53.63crush

with the lashes like above:

DMG_3Force of Anguish = DMG_2Force of Anguish  + DMG_2Force of Anguish * 0.2Turing Wheel + DMG_2Force of Anguish * 0.15Lightning Strikes = 53.63crush + 10.7burn + 8.04shock

Hope that clears it up. It looks more complicated as it actually is I guess. ;)


Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Boeroer said:
21 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Hope that clears it up. It looks more complicated as it actually is I guess. ;)

 That was very well explained indeed, thank you very much Boeroer :)

I guess it makes sense because otherwise the multiplier would get massive (it makes me sad too!).

My impression is then it is as if both the fist and the sneak-attack scaling are the same kind of "weapon base dmg rescaling" and therefore additive with each other.

8 hours ago, Winterheart said:

I've been running a Forbidden Fist/Trickster with great success lately.  Very tanky and deals very respectable damage,

Nice to hear it, I was thinking exactly about this combo, with rogue´s & Tuottilo´s riposte, and death godlike, surviving at 1/4HP thanks to its high deflection :)


Edit: damn it, got another one. Does the FF damage to the enemy scale with PL (+5%)? and the self-healing?

I think TheLee´s guide says the self-damage scales with PL ("+ 1 per PL every three seconds"), but not clear about the other 2:
- no details about the scaling of the damage to the enemy (but I suspect there is)
- the self-healing is said to scale like "+3 at every even unlocked AL"

However I believe in the PL Compilation Thread it was said all abilities & spells generally get +5% multiplicative PL scaling?


Edited by lewis_cb
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Yes, all abilities (that deal damage) do get a 5% multiplicative damage bonus per Power Level. Multiplicative because the base damage gets increased by 5%. Forbidden Fist (the ability) is no exception. 

In the unmodded game the Forbidden Fist ability is a bit quirky because it doesn't count as weapon attack but works like a "melee spell with attributes of fists" ;). It generates no focus and doesn't work properly with Swift Flurry. I don't know if it even profits from Sneak Attack and Deep Wounds (since those only work with weapon damage). Worth testing I guess - or maybe somebody knows the answer. 

I can't test it because my PC is in a box, ready for moving. :)


Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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22 hours ago, lewis_cb said:

However I believe in the PL Compilation Thread it was said all abilities & spells generally get +5% multiplicative PL scaling?

As the person who wrote that the key word is "generally". There are exceptions, annoyingly (chanter chants is another big one). In general if the gamefaqs guide mentions an alternate scaling, it was tested and explicitly different from normal PL scaling, such as the self-heal from forbidden fist. (Carnage is another one that doesnt follow normal scaling)

Edited by thelee
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