Balance Polishing Mod Release 1.0

[Elric Galad]

54 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

It is a pretty unique effect (Xoti's Lantern is the only other source, yeah?), but I do think it's pretty powerful for specific builds that want the extra defense versus specific abilities (even though they are limited). Specifically, here, I'm thinking about Arcane Dampener/Cleanse for buff-dependent builds, and things like Disintegrate, Missile Salvo, etc. in the DLCs.  Elemental AR is very easy to acquire via Race & Gear. I would rather see it raised to a compelling level, e.g. +20%, or make it more dependable, but less frequent, e.g. 100% resist chance, but can only occur once every 45 or 60 seconds. It could also be changed to be more like Spell Reflect, resist 100% of spells up to x levels, where that is a reasonably small #, but enough to make the  difference at the start of a fight. 

Actually, something like 100% defense with a Cooldown was another idea I got. Not sure it would be easy to simplement, but it is way more useful for party build since it allows using the character as a safe decoy when dropping AoE. 

I will think about implementation. 

Another simple possibility would be a ~100% graze to miss. 

54 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Defense at the start of combat shifts the focus/use case to more of a melee bruiser or tank ability, rather than something you'd want to take on your light armor casters (Furrante Armor is a good example, as that's built for a frontline Paladin type).

I would be more interested in a modest constant +defense vs. Interrupts, instead (is that possible in the code)?

Another option would be to make it a weaker version of Resolute, where you gain 1 Concentration every 30 seconds, or so.

Yet another idea is to get a buff while you have concentration, e.g. +5 all defenses while you have concentration active. 

Concentration every 30s just make more sense than everything else I think. Super simple yet perfectly suitable. It would work similarly as my backlash rework that was change from once per encounter to a 60s cooldown. 

54 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

I agree that making the disengagement attacks better is not really worth it (arguably even if you are using a Terrify strategy - they already do enough on their own without the added boost).

Adding engagement based buffs is a great idea (though Accuracy is in abundance for Fighters already). I'd actually recommend removing the buffs to Disengagement attacks altogether and replace with another set of effects. 

Adding +1 engagement is actually not a bad idea, if you think about the trade-off with Mob Stance and promoting different builds (e.g. 2H single Class fighters). 

The best option, though, is a debuff a la Persistent Distraction. This would make other Fighter builds more compelling vs. Swashbuckler (though it would make Swashbuckler stronger, too, but not until very late). Some ideas:

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter have -5 Dexterity

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter gain a -25% penalty to Recovery

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter have -1 AR

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter take 5% of Primary Weapon damage as raw damage every 3 seconds (vs. Deflection? Reflex? Auto damage?)

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter take 10% more damage

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter have -5 all defenses

Well +1 engagement for Overbearing Guard makes sense indeed. Even if fighter has plenty of them, it gives the class more flexibility. One can either stacks engagements, or pick their favorite. 

I prefer that to other solutions. And it is consistent with "On Engagement abilities granting engagement" principle. 

54 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

I think the +AR for Unbroken is already pretty strong in terms of defense. I don't think Unbroken need more defensive buffs. If we are compensating for the lack of impact the Disengagement effect has, I'd recommend adding an offensive buff per engaged target. Maybe +2 Melee Weapon Accuracy or +.5 penetration with Melee Weapons per engaged target? 

Yes +2 melee weapon acc is good for unbroken, since it synergizes with the shield while helping the Unbroken compensating for the lack of offensive punch from wearing one. 

34 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Admittedly I haven’t played with an SC Ranger, but one thing that always struck me about this ability was how it was essentially a defensive CD with the mechanics feeling more about tactical retreat vs. lying in wait for a powerful ambush. 
Adding Intuitive is a great change, but I’d rather see it add more offensive potential. 

Ideas:

- Invis, untargetable (breaks on attack); while invis regain health, gain hostile effect reduction; gain stacking +accuracy, +damage, +penetration (have these effects last for fixed 10s, but apply a new stack every 3s while invis (effective max 3 stacks). 

There is a big intresic issue about Vibe vs Gameplay for Shadowed Hunters. 

Vibe is a prudent stalker that wait in the dark before lauching their attack. An offensive bonus based on time spent hidden would make sense. 

But with a party, Gameplay makes your companions fight alone while you wait in the dark. So an offensive bonus you'll get would have to compensate for the offensive power you loose while waiting. 

You would need a big Offensive buff to compensate for waiting. Which in turn could make the ability too good for solo. 

It is way easier to give a defensive bonus for the time spent in the dark, cause it makes sense to stay hidden when you need protection/healing. 

On top of this you can add an offensive bonus, but not based on the time spent hidden. So the 45s Intuition. 

 

Also I don't want to change too much the existing design unless needed. Basically, I think people were happy with the Tier 3 Per inspiration independant from how many time one remain hidden. 

Edited January 5 by Elric Galad

[Testlum]

9 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

You would need a big Offensive buff to compensate for waiting. Which in turn could make the ability too good for solo.

I admit I don't know much about solo play for Pillars, but would this be much of an issue? Single-classed Rangers aren't the strongest class already so I have a hard time seeing how they could dominate solo gameplay even if Shadowed Hunters received a big upgrade.

[Ivanfyodorovich]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

There is a big intresic issue about Vibe vs Gameplay for Shadowed Hunters. 

Vibe is a prudent stalker that wait in the dark before lauching their attack. An offensive bonus based on time spent hidden would make sense. 

But with a party, Gameplay makes your companions fight alone while you wait in the dark. So an offensive bonus you'll get would have to compensate for the offensive power you loose while waiting. 

You would need a big Offensive buff to compensate for waiting. Which in turn could make the ability too good for solo. 

I think you're right here. Looking at the other abilities at Tier 8 and 9, there are already a bunch of big attacks & buffs. This really seems to want to be a powerful escape / defensive power move. In that case, I'd recommend tuning the cost down and making it something you use more akin to Rogue Shadowing Beyond & Enduring Shadows. 

Cost: 2 Bond

Cast/Recovery: 0.5s / 0s

Effect: Self & Animal Companion: Untargetable, Invisible, +10hp and -3s Duration of Hostile Effects per 1 second for 10s; Swift for 20s, +15 all defenses for 20s. Untargetable, Invisible, heal, & hostile effect duration reduction are removed on first attack; Swift & bonus defenses persist. 

[Hoo]

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Proposed change for fighter disengagement abilties :

 

Overbearing Guard :

+15 accuracy, +50% damages for disengagement attacks -> +10 accuracy, +50% damages

To add : +2 Melee weapon accuracy per engaged target

 

Unbroken :

-15% movement speed -> -20% movement speed

To add : +2 Melee weapon deflection per engaged target

(other features unchanged)

First of all, I really thank you to keep enhancing your great mod with ceaseless efforts. 

I personally like the ability and the subclass, but... Unbroken is already a good Fighter subclass imo, at least comparing with Black Jacket, especially on BPM version, because several synergized things, like  Powder Burns, universal effects of some unique items and so on, have been nerfed. 

I do not say that Black Jacket needs to be buffed, though. The subclass is probably still interesting and has unique feature that the other classes/subclasses cannot achieve.

Edited January 6 by Hoo

[Ivanfyodorovich]

20 minutes ago, Hoo said:

First of all, I really thank you to keep enhancing your great mod with ceaseless efforts. 

Yes!! @Elric Galad - cannot say enough how wonderful your work on this is. 
 

Question for you (and others): what’s the easiest way to make traps worth using? If they had some added accuracy? A vendor to buy them from? 

The items that boost “effectiveness” make me want to go for it, but my recollection is that it is really isn’t useful/worth it, b/c they miss so much. 

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Yes!! @Elric Galad - cannot say enough how wonderful your work on this is. 
 

Question for you (and others): what’s the easiest way to make traps worth using? If they had some added accuracy? A vendor to buy them from? 

The items that boost “effectiveness” make me want to go for it, but my recollection is that it is really isn’t useful/worth it, b/c they miss so much. 

Ahem, @thelee, what advice can you give about this?

I've read the caltrop and fire trap issue from your faq btw. 

[Elric Galad]

8 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

I think you're right here. Looking at the other abilities at Tier 8 and 9, there are already a bunch of big attacks & buffs. This really seems to want to be a powerful escape / defensive power move. In that case, I'd recommend tuning the cost down and making it something you use more akin to Rogue Shadowing Beyond & Enduring Shadows. 

Cost: 2 Bond

Cast/Recovery: 0.5s / 0s

Effect: Self & Animal Companion: Untargetable, Invisible, +10hp and -3s Duration of Hostile Effects per 1 second for 10s; Swift for 20s, +15 all defenses for 20s. Untargetable, Invisible, heal, & hostile effect duration reduction are removed on first attack; Swift & bonus defenses persist. 

Consider my current proposal with a new twist :
For max 15s or until attack :
- Invisibility
- healing 16hp per 3s
- -5s hostile effect per 3s
For 45s after attack :
- healing 8hp per 3s
- Intuition
- no more hosile effect reduction

 

Feedback from your proposal :
- Intuition is great for ranger, I see no reason to change it to Swift
- Shadowed Hunters shall have a different vibe from Enduring Shadows. It shall reward staying invisible longer. My point above was about how problematic it would be to give it an offensive bonus for staying invisible longer. But defensive boost is OK.
- My proposal helps making Practiced Healer talent relevant for SC Ranger. Which is not very important but still a nice side effect.
- Your proposal wouldn't stack with Beast Claw. Which is IMHO an almost mandatory pick for a melee Ranger.
- As you can see, I think "minus duration per 3s" is a better idea than flat -50% cause it rewards staying invisible for longer duration. So I changed it based on your proposal.

7 hours ago, Hoo said:

First of all, I really thank you to keep enhancing your great mod with ceaseless efforts. 

I personally like the ability and the subclass, but... Unbroken is already a good Fighter subclass imo, at least comparing with Black Jacket, especially on BPM version, because several synergized things, like  Powder Burns, universal effects of some unique items and so on, have been nerfed. 

Unbroken isn't bad, it is just that their defining trait is a bit disappointing. As said before, their drawbacks are just so soft that they are an easy pick.

My proposal isn't a plain buff since I increase the speed malus from -15% to -20%.

The +2 Melee accuracy per engaged target is a nice, but not super strong either. Great stacking with Kapana Taga.

The idea isn't to buff them but to help making their subclass a bit more defining.

 

7 hours ago, Hoo said:

I do not say that Black Jacket needs to be buffed, though. The subclass is probably still interesting and has unique feature that the other classes/subclasses cannot achieve.

Black Jacket has just so much meta potential.

Edited January 6 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

For spell resistance, my proposal would be the following :

- 10% hostile spell resistance
- First hostile spell attack every 30s (need your feedback about the value) is guaranteed to fail. Note this isn't great vs multiple attacks, beams and ticking spells.

Note the wording : "guaranteed to fail", means that a spell which would have missed anyway still counts. It is AFAIK impossible to count only the times when the resistance would have been necessary to avoid the attack. The game can't distinguish "normal misses" from "misses because of ability".

That's why I propose to maintain also the vanilla game 10% resist.

As far as party build is considered, it allows a character to be caught in the middle of one "friendly" Freezing Rake, Wilting Wind, Smashing Wave or Embrace the Earth Talon. Which would help even during caster-free encounters.

 

Bonus fun-fact : I guess Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr is still the best way to protect your allies from a Freezing Rake or Smashing Wave AoE, since Fire status cancel Water/Ice attacks  

Edited January 6 by Elric Galad

[Ivanfyodorovich]

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Feedback from your proposal :
- Intuition is great for ranger, I see no reason to change it to Swift
- Shadowed Hunters shall have a different vibe from Enduring Shadows. It shall reward staying invisible longer. My point above was about how problematic it would be to give it an offensive bonus for staying invisible longer. But defensive boost is OK.
- My proposal helps making Practiced Healer talent relevant for SC Ranger. Which is not very important but still a nice side effect.
- Your proposal wouldn't stack with Beast Claw. Which is IMHO an almost mandatory pick for a melee Ranger.
- As you can see, I think "minus duration per 3s" is a better idea than flat -50% cause it rewards staying invisible for longer duration. So I changed it based on your proposal.

Ok, that all makes sense. The new version works fine, I think. 

-I didn't think about stacking w Beast Claw - good catch. Keeping the healing going works well and is a unique effect, so that works. 

-Glad you like -duration per 3, too. I like that change. 

-Would you tune it to 2 Bond for this version? 

-My thinking with Swift was to give it a short mobility boost to help get out of danger. Intuitive is great, though Ranger is already the most accurate class out of the box with things like Hunter's Mark and Stalker's Link. The thing I don't love about Intuitive for 45s after, is that this becomes an ability you really want use at the start of combat to get the buff, which is at odds with the use as a defensive survival button. 

-What if we go with that idea more, though, and make this a buff you use at the beginning of combat that vibes with the idea of the hunter moving through the shadows to stalk their prey, being harder to pin down? Would this be easier or harder to code? 

• Cost: 2 Bond
• Cast/Recovery: .5s/0s
• Duration: 45s
• Effect: Self & Animal Companion:
  • Intuitive (captures the ambushing from the shadows vibe), 
  • 15% incoming hit to graze, 15% incoming graze to miss, 15% incoming crit to hit (Potion of Insubstantial Form effect, captures the hard to hit while slinking between shadows vibe, could tune this up or down to adjust power level);
  • the first time either become Near Death, becomes invisible and untargetable, healing for 15hp per 3, -5s hostile effect duration per 3s (fixed 15s, breaks on first attack)

[Ivanfyodorovich]

7 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

For spell resistance, my proposal would be the following :

- 10% hostile spell resistance
- First hostile spell attack every 30s (need your feedback about the value) is guaranteed to fail. Note this isn't great vs multiple attacks, beams and ticking spells.

I think this is strong and accomplishes the intended effect well. 

8 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Note the wording : "guaranteed to fail", means that a spell which would have missed anyway still counts. It is AFAIK impossible to count only the times when the resistance would have been necessary to avoid the attack. The game can't distinguish "normal misses" from "misses because of ability".

That's why I propose to maintain also the vanilla game 10% resist.

This makes sense. I just tested, and that's how Spell Reflect works. There's still a roll to hit, but the spell is reflected even if it was a miss. 

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Ok, that all makes sense. The new version works fine, I think. 

-I didn't think about stacking w Beast Claw - good catch. Keeping the healing going works well and is a unique effect, so that works. 

-Glad you like -duration per 3, too. I like that change. 

-Would you tune it to 2 Bond for this version? 

-My thinking with Swift was to give it a short mobility boost to help get out of danger. Intuitive is great, though Ranger is already the most accurate class out of the box with things like Hunter's Mark and Stalker's Link. The thing I don't love about Intuitive for 45s after, is that this becomes an ability you really want use at the start of combat to get the buff, which is at odds with the use as a defensive survival button. 

-What if we go with that idea more, though, and make this a buff you use at the beginning of combat that vibes with the idea of the hunter moving through the shadows to stalk their prey, being harder to pin down? Would this be easier or harder to code? 

• Cost: 2 Bond
• Cast/Recovery: .5s/0s
• Duration: 45s
• Effect: Self & Animal Companion:
  • Intuitive (captures the ambushing from the shadows vibe), 
  • 15% incoming hit to graze, 15% incoming graze to miss, 15% incoming crit to hit (Potion of Insubstantial Form effect, captures the hard to hit while slinking between shadows vibe, could tune this up or down to adjust power level);
  • the first time either become Near Death, becomes invisible and untargetable, healing for 15hp per 3, -5s hostile effect duration per 3s (fixed 15s, breaks on first attack)

First I wanted to keep SH at 3 bonds so Play Dead stays the only "pet saver" ability at 2 bonds. SH may have other great effects, but Play Dead shall remain the most flexible of the two.

 

In additional BPM objective is to remain as close as possible from the original design. I don't hesitate to make changes when needed, but by default, I discard complete rework. Also I think it's better to remain as close as possible from previous BPM versions, since the mod changes are already quite complex to follow. 

Like most of PoE2 players apart on this forum don't even know the mod exist, so better not to discourage the few daring ones with infinite retweaks. Granted that I do retweaks

 

Also I think it's not bad if the ability isn't optimal to use at start of battle. There are enough self buff to cast at start (bonded fury, marked prey) to not add another one so your Bond pool would be half empty before even attacking. 

Active abilities used as pseudo passive isn't the best gameplay IMHO. 

Granted that the version above works well enough if used at start of battle. 

 

Finally, I'm not too sure about a Near Death trigger that isn't 100% aligned with the vibe (you hide initially, not at some point during the effect) and is slightly less relevant for an instant ability. 

Edited January 6 by Elric Galad

[Ivanfyodorovich]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

First I wanted to keep SH at 3 bonds so Play Dead stays the only "pet saver" ability at 2 bonds. SH may have other great effects, but Play Dead shall remain the most flexible of the two.

 

In additional BPM objective is to remain as close as possible from the original design. I don't hesitate to make changes when needed, but by default, I discard complete rework. Also I think it's better to remain as close as possible from previous BPM versions, since the mod changes are already quite complex to follow. 

Like most of PoE2 players apart on this forum don't even know the mod exist, so better not to discourage the few daring ones with infinite retweaks. Granted that I do retweaks

 

Also I think it's not bad if the ability isn't optimal to use at start of battle. There are enough self buff to cast at start (bonded fury, marked prey) to not add another one so your Bond pool would be half empty before even attacking. 

Active abilities used as pseudo passive isn't the best gameplay IMHO. 

Granted that the version above works well enough if used at start of battle. 

 

Finally, I'm not too sure about a Near Death trigger that isn't 100% aligned with the vibe (you hide initially, not at some point during the effect) and is slightly less relevant for an instant ability. 

That's fair. Given the design intent for the mod, I like your version. Carry on!

[thelee]

8 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Ahem, @thelee, what advice can you give about this?

I've read the caltrop and fire trap issue from your faq btw. 

w/out knowing what the actual cause of the bug is, i think those kinds of traps need much stronger up-front effects (maybe  long-lived durations for afflictions) [other traps have useful other effects i think] and all traps need significantly higher damage. the effects (was it jester's boots? and the sss soulbound rapier?) that increase trap effectiveness need to easily be 2x-ed IMO

[Elric Galad]

18 minutes ago, thelee said:

w/out knowing what the actual cause of the bug is, i think those kinds of traps need much stronger up-front effects (maybe  long-lived durations for afflictions) [other traps have useful other effects i think] and all traps need significantly higher damage. the effects (was it jester's boots? and the sss soulbound rapier?) that increase trap effectiveness need to easily be 2x-ed IMO

There was also a question above about trap accuracy. Is it... satisfying ? I mean, from what I've read it benefits a lot from mechanics which is... okay, no ?

I think traps should have damages comparable to equivalent Priest Seals (Priest seals having the benefit of NOT using consumables).

The 2 problematic traps should have a proper duration. Caltrops is supposed to have infinite duration raw DoT and Hobbled debuff. Something not working at all.

Not sure trap effectiveness effect should be changed if the traps are given okayish damages.

 

On another topic, I completely forgot Guardian stance. This one can't be fixed by +1 engagement. Some bonus per engagement could work. I have to think about one.

[thelee]

15 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

There was also a question above about trap accuracy. Is it... satisfying ? I mean, from what I've read it benefits a lot from mechanics which is... okay, no ?

I think traps should have damages comparable to equivalent Priest Seals (Priest seals having the benefit of NOT using consumables).

The 2 problematic traps should have a proper duration. Caltrops is supposed to have infinite duration raw DoT and Hobbled debuff. Something not working at all.

Not sure trap effectiveness effect should be changed if the traps are given okayish damages.

 

On another topic, I completely forgot Guardian stance. This one can't be fixed by +1 engagement. Some bonus per engagement could work. I have to think about one.

trap accuracy is a weird vestige from poe1 imo, but i think it's fine. ideally it should function like other skills and each point grant correct bonus PL to traps - i think that would fix some of the damage weirdness, but i doubt this is fixable with modding.

traps should do more than priest seals imo - traps are expensive and (essentially, excluding tedious vendor resets) finite, whereas seals are repeatable for every single encounter (even more than once/encounter w/out berath's challenge and you break up a fight)

i think there should be a pretty good payoff for using one of the trap effectivenss effects. since traps are one and done for a character (unlike seals can't be set in combat). if traps are upgraded to do decent damage across the board (basically not a complete rounding error), it's still good to basically give traps-oriented characters a capstone. 25% just for damage is not meaningful IMO (it'd be a whole other thing if it also boosted durations, or actually granted trap PL, that would be better since currently most of the value from traps IME are long-lived affliction durations [once you have tons of scaling] or interrupts at start for free)

Edited January 6 by thelee

[Ivanfyodorovich]

18 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

On another topic, I completely forgot Guardian stance. This one can't be fixed by +1 engagement. Some bonus per engagement could work. I have to think about one.

What about a flat % chance to prone w all melee weapon attacks on top of the 100% chance for disengagement attacks? 25%? 

[Elric Galad]

41 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

What about a flat % chance to prone w all melee weapon attacks on top of the 100% chance for disengagement attacks? 25%? 

Granted that 100% interrupt on weapon hit is a Tier 9, even 25% prone on Hit feels a bit OP. 

Also fighter already has KD to cause Prone, so it would feel a bit redundant. 

 

I would opt for a -8% action speed for engaged target. Always useful. And to be honest, way quicker to implement. 

[Ivanfyodorovich]

1 hour ago, thelee said:

trap accuracy is a weird vestige from poe1 imo, but i think it's fine. ideally it should function like other skills and each point grant correct bonus PL to traps - i think that would fix some of the damage weirdness, but i doubt this is fixable with modding.

traps should do more than priest seals imo - traps are expensive and (essentially, excluding tedious vendor resets) finite, whereas seals are repeatable for every single encounter (even more than once/encounter w/out berath's challenge and you break up a fight)

i think there should be a pretty good payoff for using one of the trap effectivenss effects. since traps are one and done for a character (unlike seals can't be set in combat). if traps are upgraded to do decent damage across the board (basically not a complete rounding error), it's still good to basically give traps-oriented characters a capstone. 25% just for damage is not meaningful IMO (it'd be a whole other thing if it also boosted durations, or actually granted trap PL, that would be better since currently most of the value from traps IME are long-lived affliction durations [once you have tons of scaling] or interrupts at start for free)

Ok - this is very helpful. I went back and re-read your FAQ (should have done that to start), and realize what I was mostly thinking about was the trap effectiveness items being underwhelming. Just to summarize for my own benefit: 

• +1 pt Mechanics = +3 Accuracy with Traps (no bonus damage)
• +1 Trap Power Level (+1 gained every character level after 1) = +1 Accuracy, +.25 Penetration, +5% Effect Duration (no bonus damage)
• Increased Trap Effectiveness Item Effect = + % damage (only on 2 items, Fool's Shoes & Seeker's Fang)

I think I was wrong in thinking that accuracy was the issue here. Using your design philosophy, @Elric Galad, what do you think about these changes: 

• Across the board buff to all trap damage / duration.
  • Suggestion: +100% damage, +25% duration on effects. Current effects below for reference.

  • Name		Current Effect (Hazard AoE)
    	Bear Claw Trap	10-15 crush/pierce, Immobilized for 6.0 sec | Accuracy vs. Reflex
    	Burning Ground Trap	5-11 burn | Accuracy vs. Reflex per 3.0 sec If successful: Shaken for 5.0 sec| Accuracy vs. Will per 3.0 sec
    	Caltrops Trap	Hobbled, 2 Raw Damage per 0.3 sec
    	Concussive Blast Trap	16-20 crush, 4m Push | Accuracy vs. Reflex
    	Corrosive Cloud Trap	8-12 corrode, Sickened for 9.0 | Accuracy vs. Fortitude
    	Freezing Spike Trap	10-15 pierce/freeze, -20% Action Speed for 15.0 sec | Accuracy vs. Reflex
    	Shock Chain Trap	7-10 shock | Accuracy vs. Deflection If successful: Disoriented for 9.0 sec | Accuracy vs. Will

• Fix Hazard AoE traps (Caltrops, Burning Ground): 
  • I'm poking around in the gamedata to see what I can find. So far it looks like the AoE Hazards are set to 9.0 sec duration. Not sure what's overriding that. Will poke more. 
  • If we can't fix them to generate a hazard, we could just make it a 1 time attack like the other traps and increase the effect to compensate. Should be easy to do. 
• (Edit) Change Trap Effectiveness Effect to be: +5 Trap PL, +25% trap damage

 

Edited January 6 by Ivanfyodorovich

[Ivanfyodorovich]

8 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Granted that 100% interrupt on weapon hit is a Tier 9, even 25% prone on Hit feels a bit OP. 

Also fighter already has KD to cause Prone, so it would feel a bit redundant. 

 

I would opt for a -8% action speed for engaged target. Always useful. And to be honest, way quicker to implement. 

That works. 

I'm still brainstorming something that fits closer to the original design goal of making the fighter "stickier". The real problem situations here are when the fighter is forced to drop engagement, or when you cause an effect on the enemy like knock-up. Something that slows them down even after they are no longer engaged would be awesome. Not sure how to code that, though, since it's not being proc'd by an attack. 

[thelee]

9 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Something that slows them down even after they are no longer engaged would be awesome. Not sure how to code that, though, since it's not being proc'd by an attack. 

isn't there some armor that has this effect riding on a disengagement attack?

[Ivanfyodorovich]

29 minutes ago, thelee said:

isn't there some armor that has this effect riding on a disengagement attack?

One Dozen Stood has this effect on Disengagement Attack. Sort of has the same problem we are trying to solve for here. 

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Ok - this is very helpful. I went back and re-read your FAQ (should have done that to start), and realize what I was mostly thinking about was the trap effectiveness items being underwhelming. Just to summarize for my own benefit: 

• +1 pt Mechanics = +3 Accuracy with Traps (no bonus damage)
• +1 Trap Power Level (+1 gained every character level after 1) = +1 Accuracy, +.25 Penetration, +5% Effect Duration (no bonus damage)
• Increased Trap Effectiveness Item Effect = + % damage (only on 2 items, Fool's Shoes & Seeker's Fang)

I think I was wrong in thinking that accuracy was the issue here. Using your design philosophy, @Elric Galad, what do you think about these changes: 

Feels like a good basis.

3 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

• Across the board buff to all trap damage / duration.
  • Suggestion: +100% damage, +25% duration on effects. Current effects below for reference.

  • Name		Current Effect (Hazard AoE)
    	Bear Claw Trap	10-15 crush/pierce, Immobilized for 6.0 sec | Accuracy vs. Reflex
    	Burning Ground Trap	5-11 burn | Accuracy vs. Reflex per 3.0 sec If successful: Shaken for 5.0 sec| Accuracy vs. Will per 3.0 sec
    	Caltrops Trap	Hobbled, 2 Raw Damage per 0.3 sec
    	Concussive Blast Trap	16-20 crush, 4m Push | Accuracy vs. Reflex
    	Corrosive Cloud Trap	8-12 corrode, Sickened for 9.0 | Accuracy vs. Fortitude
    	Freezing Spike Trap	10-15 pierce/freeze, -20% Action Speed for 15.0 sec | Accuracy vs. Reflex
    	Shock Chain Trap	7-10 shock | Accuracy vs. Deflection If successful: Disoriented for 9.0 sec | Accuracy vs. Will

That's a good basis, but :

- if trap power level reach 19, duration as it is shouldn't be too much an issue.
- +100% trap damages is perfect.

3 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

• Fix Hazard AoE traps (Caltrops, Burning Ground): 
  • I'm poking around in the gamedata to see what I can find. So far it looks like the AoE Hazards are set to 9.0 sec duration. Not sure what's overriding that. Will poke more. 

Let me know if you find something. 

3 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

• • If we can't fix them to generate a hazard, we could just make it a 1 time attack like the other traps and increase the effect to compensate. Should be easy to do. 

Sure. Burning trap could be a Burning DoT and Caltrop an Arterial Strike type DoT. The strange thing is that it is supposed to be already.

3 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

• (Edit) Change Trap Effectiveness Effect to be: +5 Trap PL, +25% trap damage

Good. Usually I don't like changing items too much (unless they are really broken) but this change would make perfect sense given what is above.

 

Unbroken : I'm considering not changing anything. The subclass isn't weak, sure could be even better but changing it won't be very consistent with my design philosophy.

 

Guardian Stance : And what about adding "+3 ennemies required to be flanked" imported from One Stands Alone, to align with the +3 engagements. Granted the role of Defender/Guardian stance, this one would make perfect sense. This is a quasi-immunity to flanking (apart from Per Affliction and Phantom Foes) so it would be very valuable when engaging up to 4 foes at a time.

[Ivanfyodorovich]

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Guardian Stance : And what about adding "+3 ennemies required to be flanked" imported from One Stands Alone, to align with the +3 engagements. Granted the role of Defender/Guardian stance, this one would make perfect sense. This is a quasi-immunity to flanking (apart from Per Affliction and Phantom Foes) so it would be very valuable when engaging up to 4 foes at a time.

This is really solid. 

[Elric Galad]

13 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

• Across the board buff to all trap damage / duration.
  • Suggestion: +100% damage, +25% duration on effects. Current effects below for reference.

  • Name		Current Effect (Hazard AoE)
    	Bear Claw Trap	10-15 crush/pierce, Immobilized for 6.0 sec | Accuracy vs. Reflex
    	Burning Ground Trap	5-11 burn | Accuracy vs. Reflex per 3.0 sec If successful: Shaken for 5.0 sec| Accuracy vs. Will per 3.0 sec
    	Caltrops Trap	Hobbled, 2 Raw Damage per 0.3 sec
    	Concussive Blast Trap	16-20 crush, 4m Push | Accuracy vs. Reflex
    	Corrosive Cloud Trap	8-12 corrode, Sickened for 9.0 | Accuracy vs. Fortitude
    	Freezing Spike Trap	10-15 pierce/freeze, -20% Action Speed for 15.0 sec | Accuracy vs. Reflex
    	Shock Chain Trap	7-10 shock | Accuracy vs. Deflection If successful: Disoriented for 9.0 sec | Accuracy vs. Will

Damages +100% done for non-bugged traps.

For Corrosive Trap, I also set duration to 12s because it seems a bit low for a Tier 1 Affliction, even considering it is the trap with the biggest AoE (2.5).

13 hours ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

• (Edit) Change Trap Effectiveness Effect to be: +5 Trap PL, +25% trap damage

 

It seems complicated to do, since Trap isn't a KW, and Trap PL is based on level.

So I will listen to @thelee and buff damage bonus to +50% instead of +25%. Less elegant but enough.

Considering a 5 people party with 2 items, it's like having an extra trap, nothing broken here.

[thelee]

20 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Caltrop an Arterial Strike type DoT. The strange thing is that it is supposed to be already.

the strange thing is that this definitely used to work, i remember chaining caltrops together and doing a decent chunk of damage.

i wonder if it's one of the handful of things that got broken with the TB mode patch.