Help with a Wizard Multiclass Build

[Khannis]

Hey, I just did a playthrough of POE1 and would like to recreate my character in POE2, but with a twist.

The basic concept I did was in the first game was a Lovecraftian-inspired Dwarf Wizard with a Scientist background. I liked summoning tentacles, dropping huge AoE spells damage and/or CC spells, and then Spirit Shield myself, and wade into the fray with my faithful Spirit Lance. Although I wasn't the primary tank (that was Éder), I was pretty hard to kill in combat thanks to heavy armor, Spirit Shield and Arcane Veil. I also loved spells like Tayn's Chaotic Orb, and Wall of Many Colors (which btw made the Adra Dragon fight a piece of cake).

Now, as I said, I'd like a twist, and that comes in the form of Multiclassing. I looked at plenty of builds and related stuff here and on Reddit, but a lot of stuff gets outdated quickly, as patches and expansions change so much. So, I'd like build advice on building a Sage, an Arcane Knight or a Loremaster (TB Mode, Veteran difficulty, companions as RP dictates, but either a full party or close to it probably).

For Sage I was looking at the synergies with my beloved Spirit Lance, and it seems that Shattered Pillar works very well with this. However, I've seen very few comments on the synergies between Forbidden Fist, Blood Mage and the plethora of bizarre AoE debuffs the Wizard has. That last concept interests me greatly, if it's viable. I like the concept behind the Nalpazca as well and greatly enjoyed Zahua as a companion, but the drugs thing maybe involves a little more crafting and bookkeeping than I'd like.

For Arcane Knight I thought about Bleakwalker. I like their fluff, and my run-in with then in a quest in the first game ended with a lot of mutual respect (they killed Cevestin for me, let the kid go and lauded my behavior). Plus, it would be an interesting RP twist as well, but I'm not sure about the mechanics. FoD would synergize well with conjured weapons? I assume it doesn't work if I summon a Phantom? Steel Garotte also seems mechanically awesome, but I hate Woedica and her minions. Not gonna make the same mistake as my past self.

For Loremaster, I thought about going more heavily into the "otherworldy summons" aspect, and going for Conjurer + Beckoner, thus having a Familiar, a conjured weapon-armed Phantom and some minions plus Chanter bonuses. Not too sold on the RP aspect though.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

Edited March 23, 2020 by Khannis
Misleading title

[Boeroer]

Sages can be pretty fun with Spirit Lance. Mostly because Forge of Anguish lets every enemy in the AoE fly away and get interrupted and because Stunning Surge nearly always refunds if you manage to hit several enemies at once with the Lance. The Forbidden Fist ability is not a weapon ability. That means it wouldn't use the Lance. It has its own base damage and will profit from Transcendent Suffering. So basically it's like using your fist (but it doesn't work with Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming because it isn't considered a weapon attack). Lance's AoE does not work with Swift Flurry. If you don't take Shattered Pillar (quite weak subclass to be honest) or Forbidden Fist you can generate wounds with Alacrity which will not end Enduring Dance. Combined with Nalpazca (not that much micro with the drugs) you will have a constant stream of wounds all the time. Helwalker's MIG will help with spell damage of course.

Arcane Knights can be sturdy as hell while dishing out good damage because the Paladin's defensive passives stack with the wizard buffs and Flames of Devotion works with Spirit Lance. You can wear the Ring of Focused Flames and get +10 Accuracy not only for your fire spells but also FoD. Bleak Walkers can even take Scion of Flame and Spirit of Decay and get +1+1=2 PEN for their FoD attacks (also the AoE with Lance). Another nice aspect of an Arcane Knight is that Eternal Devotion also applies its lash to your spells. You can also use Blightheart at the start of combat (before summoning Lance): it gives you a Corrosive lash for all your spells. Combined with Eternal Devotion this boosts your spell damage considerably. Then after casting and summoning Lance you can waltz in. You don't even have to switch weapons for that (because summoning). Of course Lay in Hands (and also Exalted Endurance) is great for a Bloodmage. Also Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon is great in that case (+1 PEN from Spirit of Decay, great healing for Blood Sacrifice).

Conjurer + Chanter summons is not a great synergy. General rule is: you can only have one summoned creature at all times. This includes the Conjurer's Familiar. So you can't have the Familiar and the Phantom or Chanter summons at the same time. Only exception: Many Lives Pass By (Chanter phrase) will automatically summon skeletons every few secs that don't count towards this limit. So I wouldn't pick Conjurer. In general I don't think Chanter/Wizard lancer is a particularly awesome combo, but maybe others have different experiences. Skald doesn't get phrases from Lance's AoE crits. Only intitial hit rolls that crit do count. 

Another nice combo is Fighter/Wizard because Vigorous Defense stacks with the Wizard's buffs and Mule Kick with Lance is fun as well as Clear Out with Lance is like an explosion: every AoE hit of Clear Out will produce a Lance-AoE.

Rogue/Wizard can apply stuff like Crippling Strike and Deep Wounds in an AoE with the Lance.

 

I personally like Arcane Knight best. It's a no-stress mix of good defense and offense and has some nice synergies. Helwalker and Nalpasca Sage is also nice but a bit more tricky.

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Boeroer

[Powerotti]

Sage is one of the most powerful and fun classes.

- Miasma + Draining touch (switch grimoire trick) + HBD/SF

- Turning Wheel bonus Int and AoE + Combusting Wounds + Pull of Eora + Spirit Lance + Stunning Surge

- Wall of Drainig + Blade Turning or Potion of the Last Stand

- Corrosive Siphon + Blood Sacrifice

[Boeroer]

Yeah - Draining Touch with Miasma and Swift Flurry is indeed cool - but it is out I guess because OP wants to use Spirit Lance mainly.

Corrosive Siphon + Blood Sacrifice is not specific to Sage. Every Bloodmage can do it.  However Corrosive Siphon with a Helwalker is very good. But Blood Sacrifice with a Helwalker is bad. It's tricky as I said.

But yes: can be lots of fun. 

I think Arcane Knight is a lot more forgiving though. Hard to kill even in the early game and good synergies and damage. Inspiring Triumph (stacks with everything) + Wall of Draining + Virtuous Triumph with Spirit Lance + Eternal Devotion is pretty great as well. You'll usually get enough refund to not run out of Zeal too early if you are the main damage dealer.

And I just love the Ring + FoD. +20 ACC attacks are great. 

Another nice alternative to Bleak Walker is Steel Garotte by the way: draining life with Spirit Lance (and also on the early game with Parasitic Staff) is very cool as a Bloodmage. 

I generally think that Sage needs a bit more knowledge to really shine. Maybe after a restart...

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Boeroer

[Khannis]

Wow, thank you for the detailed responses! Very good explanations and breakdowns.

A couple of last questions, about Forbidden Fist, there's a Community Patch that fixes the weapon attack question, correct? Is there a reason not to download it? Also, I get confused how exactly the interaction between FF, Instruments of Pain and Lance works. From what I understand FF does work ith IoP, right? And Lance works with it as well? It's a little confusing, to be honest.

Shame about the Loremaster, and that a Summoner character seems to not really be that viable. Oh well.

Mind you, I'm probably going Arcane Knight anyway, just for the RP flavor of being REALLY pissed off about being disintegrated and having my home blown up. Guess I'm determined to never get ****ed with again, and the mechanical synergies look very nice and straightforward.

[Powerotti]

Blood sacrifice with Hellwalker isn't bad if you are immortal (potion + wall) and it fits Death Godlike well in terms of both RP and powergaming

[Waski]

2 hours ago, Powerotti said:

Blood sacrifice with Hellwalker isn't bad if you are immortal (potion + wall) and it fits Death Godlike well in terms of both RP and powergaming

Not true, Healing Hands gloves are enough for healing, and thunderous blows are perfect to burn wounds(instacast and no recovery) before blood sacrifice. Considering that hel/bm can make himself invulnerable to melee attacks(blade turning), can have sky high deflection ( around 200 is easy to get, and 50 % of ranged attacks are bounced back), and other defences matched maybe only by arcane knight(+15 str,+10 to int translate into nice bonuses) most of damage is coming from blood sacrifice. More then good as nuker and as gish. But my experience comes from solo play so idk how he can perform with team.

[Powerotti]

3 hours ago, Waski said:

5 hours ago, Powerotti said:

Blood sacrifice with Hellwalker isn't bad if you are immortal (potion + wall) and it fits Death Godlike well in terms of both RP and powergaming

Not true, Healing Hands gloves are enough for healing, and thunderous blows are perfect to burn wounds(instacast and no recovery) before blood sacrifice.

But it is true. You don't need any healing if you can't die at all. Besides that Corrosive Siphon, Voidward ring and average con is enough to tank some blood sacrifices even with max wounds, if you're not under enemy fire

3 hours ago, Waski said:

50 % of ranged attacks are bounced back

I think Soul Mirror bounces back not only arrows and bullets, but beam and missle spells too

[Khannis]

Any ideas on attribute spread? I'm asking because of TB, I heard Dexterity works radically different and so should be... Average? And how much defensive stats do I need with Sage or Arcane Knight?

[Powerotti]

6 hours ago, Khannis said:

there's a Community Patch that fixes the weapon attack question, correct? Is there a reason not to download it?

CP makes Forbidden Fist ability tagged as weapon atk, so it can proc Swift Flurry and Hearthbeat Drumming.

 

6 hours ago, Khannis said:

Also, I get confused how exactly the interaction between FF, Instruments of Pain and Lance works. From what I understand FF does work ith IoP, right? And Lance works with it as well? It's a little confusing, to be honest.

Instruments of Pain just increase melee reach, so you can swing your weapon at grater distance. Like ranged atk, but it's still melee.

FF ability always uses its own base dmg which is equal to monk fists scaled with transcended suffering, even if you have equipped other weapon (works kind of like close range spell). So if you use Community Patch and add weapon tag to FF, the magic happens. Crits that you make with FF may proc SF and HBD, but those abilities always use your equipped weapon e.g. Lance and even bow or arquebus

[Khannis]

Thanks for the clarification!

[Boeroer]

20 hours ago, Powerotti said:

Blood sacrifice with Hellwalker isn't bad if you are immortal (potion + wall) and it fits Death Godlike well in terms of both RP and powergaming

That is late(ish) game stuff. I prefer to judge a class combo on the early game as well - if a new player is asking. And Helwalker's increased damage received + Blood Sacrifice is accessible right from the start which can lead to some nasty surprises. Of course: if you already know some stuff then it's no big deal. It's just so that such experiences can be pretty frustrating for a new player. Thus I recommend Arcane Knight.

Instruments of Pain is very good since all it does is to multiply your weapon's base reach with 6. A pike has 1.8 meters reach so you get a melee reach of 10.8 meters. This allows you to switch targets way more quickly without engaging and moving around which can raise your damage output considerably. It also prevents you from getting attacked too much. You can still use all melee abilites. So: no-brainer. 

Yesterday evening I did compare the two variants again in-game (also with Draining Touch and again my favorite combo with Swift Flurry/Stunning Surge atm: Sungrazer + Sun&Moon). Not at max level though because then the effect of Swift Flurry is of course way better when you are overleveled.

Sage can totally wreck weaker mobs and is super fun in those crowded encounters. But you have to watch out (without potion shenanigans). Several CRE_Tigers may overwhelm him quickly if you make a mistake. 

Arcane Knight also does a good job with mob damage but is slower - but at the same time is very sturdy. If placed against 6 or more CRE_Tigers he has a rel. easy time surviving. He also has an easier time against tougher foes. The +20 ACC on FoD and Brand Enemy do help a lot here. I wouldn't pick Sworn Rival with a Lance user I think - since he will hit several enemies most of the time anyway and you maybe don't want to spend your time applying Sworn Rival to all enemies you want to hit. So instead I would pick Brand Enemy for the hard-to-hit foes and give them the Death Sentence (Brand Enemy is an auto-hit).

Anyhow: I'd say it depends on the role in the party. If you need another sturdy body who also does good dmg and CC (also spell dmg due to burning lash from Eternal Devotion and potentially Blightheart) but can also heal and support then Arcane Knight. 

If you want to mop the floor with mobs (pun intended), be less sturdy for bigger parts of the game but have more offensive potential and have lots of fun when Swift Flurry procs then Sage. Needs more fiddling.

I like both combos a lot (with diverse subclasses).

By the way: a gamebreaking combo with Sage is to use Scordeo's Edge with Blade Cascade and Adaptive + Draining Wall. Once you have enough duration of Blade Cascade you can summon the Lance and attack with 0 recovery and +20 ACC. It's some micro though.

I totally recommend the Community Patch. Not only does it fix Forbidden Fist and several other weird things (like Backstab and proper keyword distributionfor Priests etc .) but it also has unique icons for all passives which makes leveling up way easier in the eyes and brain. Whoha... who may have drawn all those icons...  It is a conservative mod which means it doesn't induce powerful munchkin stuff. It fixes some stuff and it merely enhances the balancing and buffs stuff that is too weak and nerfs stuff that is gamebreakingly strong. But only moderately. I'd say it makes a great Deadfire even better. Without Munchkin vibes. But you can also switch on/and off individual parts of the "patch" and only use what you want from it. 

See my sig for download.

I would also highly recommend the Enhanced UI mod. I have nothing to do with it but it's superb - especially for new players. It doesn't alter the mechanics but only adds some very handy UI infos to popups and tooltips. I wouldn't want to miss it. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Boeroer