Barbarian as a dps -Turnbased

[Osicat]

I kinda new to the game, just joined as the Turn based gamemode strated feel ready. I have tbh waited for it as I prefere turn based RPG (play D&D 5e live and want my pc rpgs to have about same feel) and must say im like it so far.

I trying to create a good barbarian dps thu and feel a little bit stuck in al guides and build ets. Alot of build and multclassing is based around non tunnbased builds and this confuses me. Atm I leaing towards a Berserker human  (as my dnd caracter) with battle axe ( 1 or dualwield). Not sure if its best to muticlass thu. I want the caracter as a pure dps not a offttank and not a one shot rogue.

Any good suggestions?

Shuld mention aswell that I play on hardest dificulty but with saves.

 

/Osi

Edited January 13, 2020 by Osicat

[thelee]

You definitely want to dual-wield, or use 2h weapons. 1h style is very bad for DPS and is only useful for specific niche approaches.

I don't have a lot of experience with turn-based, but am actually thinking that a lot of barbarian stuff is not going to be very useful for turn-based, because a lot of it is focused on action speed/recovery (frenzy, bloodlust) and action speed is much less useful in turn-based mode where you all have one turn per round regardless.

You might want to focus on the shouts and the straight-up damage and accuracy bonus passives (one stands alone). If you're single-classed, I think the dazing shout path is extremely good - you do a lot of decent area of effect damage and daze the enemies for a long time, which can be a huge survival boost.

@Boeroer seems to be the resident barbarian expert here, so I'm paging him.

[Osicat]

How about stats, So many guides etc tell setups who when i read more carefull seem to be bad for Turnbased as they focsued on haste etc. I Rp my caracter kinda heavy as its my live Barbarian from Live Riva Hornraven who joined Pillars of eterenty 2 universe. She prefere 1 wep over 2 so I guess I try find a 2h build that work for me.

Might constitution is gived, is hit chacne a big one to invest in awell?

and ty for answer mate.

/Osicat

 

[Boeroer]

I also didn't play Turn Based Mode but judging from what I read all the action speed and recovery buffs seem to be a lot less important than in RTwP Mode. Single Class Barbarian with late game Driving Roar is very potent. But I don't know if that's the type of Barbarian OP wants to play (Barb with axes and so on). Barbaric Retaliation is pretty nice with axes + modal (Bleeding Cuts).

A Barb multiclass I particularly like is Barb/Monk. Especially Berserker/Monk since the Berserker Frenzy fuels the Monk's wounds and Swift Flurry triggers quite often esp. with Barbaric Smash. Bleeding Cuts get applied by Swift Flurries as well iirc.

I you like 2handers better I'd vote for a Berserker/Monk with a Morning Star. It's the perfect synergy of class(es) and weapon.

Barb/Streetfighter is also nice as dps character. Even though the recovery bonus isn't so important in this case but the increased Sneak Attack dmg and the high crit chance + hit/crit damage when bloodied. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Boeroer

[thelee]

26 minutes ago, Osicat said:

How about stats, So many guides etc tell setups who when i read more carefull seem to be bad for Turnbased as they focsued on haste etc. I Rp my caracter kinda heavy as its my live Barbarian from Live Riva Hornraven who joined Pillars of eterenty 2 universe. She prefere 1 wep over 2 so I guess I try find a 2h build that work for me.

Might constitution is gived, is hit chacne a big one to invest in awell?

and ty for answer mate.

/Osicat

oh yeah, for barbarians, perception is real important especially since you said you play on harder difficulty. i would actually say it's more important to max perception than might for a barbarian.

it's because carnage only triggers on weapon hits (not grazes) and itself needs to at least graze enemies to do anything (and it's considered like a spell, so it doesn't get the same accuracy bonuses as a weapon attack). That essentially means that for a barbarian's main form of damage, each point of perception or accuracy does double-duty - increasing the chance you hit (to trigger carnage), and increasing the chance again that you get good carnage out of it. matters less when you have high chance to hit/graze but (more commonly on PotD) at lower accuracy, you essentially get exponential returns from perception.

it also helps that barbarians have an easy way to boost their damage capability (frenzy, one stands alone, blooded) but not their accuracy. so perception seems to matter a lot.

 

edit - actually, because of the above, 1h style might actually be decent for barbarian because of the +12 acc bonus, so long as it's a high-based-damage weapon (like an axe). i haven't run the numbers on this specific scenario before, and i've only played a couple of barbarians so can't say for sure. my hypothesis is that it works out extremely well early on, but might pale in comparison to dual-wielding or 2h by mid-late game (where your accuracy starts getting better and better).

Edited January 13, 2020 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Never had good results with a single handed Barb so far. Also because Barbaric Smash, Heart of Fury, Barbaric Retaliation etc. are all Full Attacks.

[Ascaloth]

Just for a reminder, Battle Axes are the one class of weapons in Deadfire that actually has 2H variants i.e. Amra and Oathbreaker's End. Both are solid choices for Barbarians too.

[UltimaLuminaire]

I played solo SC Barbarian in Turn Based Mode and it was very successful. I can tell you that a slow Barbarian does not suffer at all thanks to the initiative rules and how ranged kiting and switch hitting tends to work. For the most part, a SC Barbarian does not need any of their attack speed boosting passives. You need only take damage, movement, and survival upgrades each level. Frenzy and its upgrades are still indispensable for additional damage, but the important thing to note is that if you choose to upgrade into Spirit Tornado, the darn thing has no cast time in this mode. You can truly nuke an area at the cost of all your rage as a Free Action before your turn ends. As a SC Barbarian, the damage per point of Rage on Spirit Tornado is second only to the final tier of shout powers since it will scale off of your PL. With DoC plate, and a dip in the luminous bath, you'll be able to blast Spirit Tornado more than enough times to end entire encounters.

DPS for your SC Barbarian in Turn Based Mode will mostly come down to your build, and both Thelee and Boeroer's suggestions hold up in turn based. Just be sure to be flexible and kite enemies as needed with ranged weapons. Later on, you'll want to rethink your no-tank idea and spec into full armor/survival to abuse Barbaric Retaliation, as that will be the best way to maximize your enemy phase damage in turn based mode.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by UltimaLuminaire

[Boeroer]

Interesting with Spirit Tornado. How is Driving Roar implemented? In RTwP is takes even less time than Frenzy/Spirit Tornado. And right: it is so powerful because its base damage (which you see in the description) scales with Power Level. And since Driving Roar is in upgrade of a PL-1 ability it will scale right away from PL 1 to 9 once you pick it (meaning base dmg * 1.4, additional PEN and ACC and so on). Just mentioning it for players who don't know PL scaling yet.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Boeroer

[UltimaLuminaire]

Sadly, shout abilities didn't benefit a lot in this mode. While Turn Based Mode will truncate a lot of powers/spells with less than 1 sec cast time to a Free Action, all of the shout abilities are kept to a Standard Action. Might be something to do with it registering as an attack rather than a buff that has an attack on activation? The Driving Roar upgrade will still be powerful as a Standard Action and your actions are still refunded on kill with Blood Thirst, but it will simply be slower to cheese in real time until the refund triggers. Enemies will still be locked down from being knocked prone, letting you kite until the refund happens.

Also, as a minor note related to mechanics, the changes to hit and graze in Turn Based will see your Carnage rolls landing more often whenever your attacks do hit, since Carnage rolls cannot graze and will instead hit a majority of the time you would normally miss in RTwP. This should have a direct benefit on shout abilities because they are similar to Carnage in that they also cannot graze and will simply hit. I guess the way it's programmed is that a graze is still considered a type of hit, and the graze effect on a power/spell can be flagged with yes or no. Spirit Tornado can graze, so this will impact the damage per point of Rage, further cementing Driving Roar as the most cost efficient damage power available to SC Barbarian in both modes.

Edited January 14, 2020 by UltimaLuminaire

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, UltimaLuminaire said:

Might be something to do with it registering as an attack rather than a buff that has an attack on activation?

Good thought. I guess that's the reason.

Good point with Carnage and misses/grazes, too.

Another question: when playing a Monk/Barbarian and using Force of Anguish you will hit the "pushed" foe with Carnage as well which usually isn't the case. Normally only bystanders get hit by Carnage, not the initial target. This is because you will push the enemy into its own Carnage AoE before Carnage itself gets rolled. Carnage then handles the foe like any other bystander (flying by ;)). The question is: does this also happen in TB Mode? Since Carnage hits a lot more often in TB it should be an even better synergy.   

[UltimaLuminaire]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Another question: when playing a Monk/Barbarian and using Force of Anguish you will hit the "pushed" foe with Carnage as well which usually isn't the case. Normally only bystanders get hit by Carnage, not the initial target. This is because you will push the enemy into its own Carnage AoE before Carnage itself gets rolled. Carnage then handles the foe like any other bystander (flying by ;)). The question is: does this also happen in TB Mode? Since Carnage hits a lot more often in TB it should be an even better synergy.   

Push effects will still send an enemy into the AoE of your Carnage. You'll also be getting plenty of Carnage off your disengage attacks. The way TB handles enemy pathing, how engagement is checked as soon as Turn Based combat is initialized and not at the start of the first turn in combat (leading to some scripted movement cheese), and how you can continue to engage an enemy you've just Terrified... it's really powerful. Honestly, Carnage just comes up constantly in TB mode.

Edited January 14, 2020 by UltimaLuminaire

[Osicat]

Ty alot for the replys.

As I try Rp my caracter from my live game and at the same time dont want to gimp myself totaly I prob go with a  Berzerker Barbarian . Will try go for 2h axe or cause Boeroers suggestion I also get got a point in morningstar and will try it. Its never a wep I used in a a RP scenario before but Barbarians are versiable and can smash things with what ever they get their hands on.

As long Riva get her daily mead she ready to smash and Il try keep update how it al turns out.

I looking into streetfighter MC but also wonder about Brute, to be able to drop most defenses and ahve a free wep swap into big shield after hit anything looks interesting. Otherwice I go SC. Monk is a class I by soe reason in any RPG never like. I just dont like the feel or idea of monks/fists etc. Warrior monks/crusaders is a whole other part and I fully like that lore/caracter ideas.

For stats I prob go with might and chance to hit.

I will probobly not unless game brake have her tank. She never a tank in any other games I play but seems like its posible get  a solid dps build out of it.

 

Ty again all

/Osicat

Edited January 14, 2020 by Osicat
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