Tuoatilo's Palm

[Elric Galad]

9 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Given how late you get that shield an increase of 25% additive dmg for such low base damage as an enchantment that requires serious investment is a slap in the face in my opinion.

Do you think something could be done about Best Defense and Magran's Shield with the Community Patch ?

Not really a priority but...

[Wotcha]

9 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Given how late you get that shield an increase of 25% additive dmg for such low base damage as an enchantment that requires serious investment is a slap in the face in my opinion.

Or, for that matter, investing to bump your PEN from 8 to 10. For a Legendary-grade weapon, the PEN should already BE at least 10, straight out of the box, just to be barely equivalent to a low base-PEN one handed weapon. 

[Boeroer]

Idon't know if it's easy to scale the offensive capabilities of bashing with quality. I guess it would be no mechanical problem though.

[Wotcha]

18 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Idon't know if it's easy to scale the offensive capabilities of bashing with quality. I guess it would be no mechanical problem though.

I thought about trying my hand at that. Where I can see a problem is making sure you don’t double-bonus Tuatilo’s Palm, in the same fashion that there was double-bonus for monk fist combined with Woedica spiritual fists. Perhaps whatever they did to address that would transparently work also for hypothetical scaling bashing shields, but perhaps not. 

[Boeroer]

They simply removed the scaling with Transcended Suffering/MUT from Woedica's fists and kept the quality scaling.

Since Tuotilo's Palm seems to be a Monk themed shield it would be fair to just leave it as it is I guess. 

[Elric Galad]

Maybe the easiest way could be to change the numbers from Best Defense specific attack upgrade, so bonus would have nothing to do with quality.

[Boeroer]

 

3 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Maybe the easiest way could be to change the numbers from Best Defense specific attack upgrade, so bonus would have nothing to do with quality.

That would also work.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[Vonbek]

3 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Maybe the easiest way could be to change the numbers from Best Defense specific attack upgrade, so bonus would have nothing to do with quality.

 

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

 

That would also work.

Would that not mean a shield by shield Suitability pass though?

 

My thoughts are that Palm is specifically a "fist" shield if you look at the lore, same way Lantern would not be a suitable Bashing shield even though it's a small shield.

 

So what would define whether a Bashing Shield should benefit from TS/MUT or indeed any QoL pass edits at all?

 

Honestly curious which ones would be suitable as there's a few interesting mechanics out there I've avoided even on non TS/MUT ideas simply due to the lack of scaling vs the few scaling options.

[Boeroer]

Certain bashing shields - e.g. Magran's Blessing - don't necessarily need an upgrade for dmg and PEN and ACC - if it has other upgrades that make its use worthwhile. In this case the -3 benefical effect debuff.

It kind of makes sense that if you reinforce a medium heater shield with "quality" that it doesn't automatically becomes a better bashing weapon.

So... providing fitting and benefical enchantments (or buffing the existing ones) for each bashing shield could make them worthwhile without doing a rel. "boring" blanket-buff for all of them.

Afaik there are only 3 bashing shields anyway, right? And Tuotilo's Plam seems to be fine while Magran's Blessing is maybe more a "utility bashing" than dps bashing.

That leaves Best Defense:

• needs better PEN enchantment - or additional PEN enchantment that comes after the first one.
• needs WAY better dmg boost - or additional dmg (maybe even a lash) enchantment that comes after the first one

 

[Wotcha]

I have been dipping my toes in mod programming, and got bashing shield scaling working!  It's slightly less than perfect, because I wasn't able to find a way to leave Tuotilo's monk-based scaling alone.  If I didn't take away Tuotilo's Unarmed keyword, it would double-dip on scaling, and I couldn't come up with a way to have the Quality buffs selectively ignore Tuotilo.  I thought I had one by setting an InclusionCondition (for the item mod GUID of Magran's Blessing or The Best Defense) on the acc/dmg/pen scaling quality status effects.  That did work, at least right upon startup, but the buffs would fall off when you switched weapons or un/re-equipped them, and I couldn't figure out why that was happening.  If you're curious, Woedica spiritual weapon sidesteps the double-dipping issue by only giving the summoned fists the unarmed weapon type (which lets things like proficiency modal work), but doesn't attach the Unarmed keyword (which is what TS/MUT key off of), so the only scaling they get is from the summon's variable scaling.

So I took away the Unarmed keyword and left it scaling strictly with Quality.  That broke Pugilist/Precision Striker from buffing the shield bash itself (they still buffed your actual Unarmed attack if you were dual wielding with a fist).  I solved that by sticking an invisible second status effect on those enchantments which applies the identical bonus to the shield itself.

Once I get it cleaned up and properly tested, I'll put it up on Nexus so those who are interested can give it a shot.