[MECHANICS] Various Testing

[Elric Galad]

For your information, contrary to their descriptions, Superior Camouflage and Defensive/Strenghtened Bond don't apply to the pet, only to the ranger...

[Elric Galad]

18 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

For your information, contrary to their descriptions, Superior Camouflage and Defensive/Strenghtened Bond don't apply to the pet, only to the ranger...

Ok, some news :

- Same problem with Survival of the fittest. Marking Prey seems the only "passive" (it has a hidden passive part) stated to apply to both ranger and pet that works correctly.

- Based on the progression table, it is literally written in the code that pets should benefit from all these abilities. Except... it doesn't.

- I've found the source of the bug and a correction. Just tested it for Superior Camouflage and Survival of the Fittest and it works ! (EDIT : works also for defensive/strenghtened bond) Except it impacts directly the Progression Table file... Basically what should be done is to append the 27+ ranger progression tables were they appear (numerous NPC tables) with the 4 modified ability (technically adding 4 working ones in addition to the 4 non-working). @Noqn could be the kind of person who can do it (with a script ?) without becoming crazy. I have not this kind of skill for now 

 

Spoiler

For your information, it's because the gamedate are written this way, and the hard code does not like adding an ability when condition is having the exact same ability (even if it supposed to add ability to the pet after the ability has been checked on ranger) :

 

                            "Note": "CL 17 - Superior Camouflage Animal Passive",

                            "Category": "General",

                            "UnlockStyle": "AutoGrant",

                            "ActivationObject": "AnimalCompanion",

                            "AddAbilityID": "d06cafc3-cb9d-4aa8-91eb-a8bdd42a66f6",

                            "RemoveAbilityID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",

                            "Prerequisites": {

                                "MinimumCharacterLevel": 17,

                                "PowerLevelRequirement": {

                                    "ClassID": "1718929c-1faf-4292-b82c-7e2a7c20b3ab",

                                    "MinimumPowerLevel": 0

                                },

                                "RequiresAbilityID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",

                                "Conditional": {

                                    "Operator": 0,

                                    "Components": [

                                        {

                                            "$type": "OEIFormats.FlowCharts.ConditionalCall, OEIFormats",

                                            "Data": {

                                                "FullName": "Boolean ProgressionTableHasAbility(Guid)",

                                                "Parameters": [

                                                    "d06cafc3-cb9d-4aa8-91eb-a8bdd42a66f6"

                                                ],

                                                "Flags": "",

                                                "UnrealCall": "",

                                                "FunctionHash": -1793712019,

                                                "ParameterHash": -1935182004

                                            },

                                            "Not": false,

                                            "Operator": 0

                                        }

                                    ]

                                },

I'm glad I had this intuition after checking why Marked Prey freaking works...

 

I'm a bit sad, because it shows clearly these abilities simply haven't been tested. Like the most elementary tests were never run. I heavily suspect another bug to Defensive/Strenghtened bond because pet gets a copy of ranger abilities : in the code, pets should benefit from the bonus if they are within 4m... of their pet.

 

EDIT : also another bug : defensive/strenghtened bond applies even when pet is down, provided it is within 4m... (which is not the case for Stalker bonus)

Edited August 5, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

6 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

 defensive/strenghtened bond applies even when pet is down, provided it is within 4m...

ROFL

[Noqn]

"What is my purpose?"

"You play dead."

[Elric Galad]

2 minutes ago, Noqn said:

"What is my purpose?"

"You play dead."

Ishiza, best pet at fleeing.

[Svartypops]

On 4/30/2020 at 5:05 PM, Elric Galad said:

I just discovered that the new Summon is technically not summoned by the chanter but by the summon itself. 

Confirmed. These are all summoned from a wand that summons 2 duplicates of the caster (it's aloth and .. oh look, he died a while ago).

Edited August 10, 2021 by Svartypops

[Elric Galad]

Ninagauth Killing Bolt's conditional spectre does count as summon.

So it will remove any preexisting summon...

[thelee]

9 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

So it will remove any preexisting summon...

that sucks, but i guess is not typically an issue. still, *sad trombone noises*

[Elric Galad]

12 minutes ago, thelee said:

that sucks, but i guess is not typically an issue. still, *sad trombone noises*

Yeah but your loremaster is going to be suprised when his killing bolt will unsummon his ancient weapons...

Edited August 10, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Svartypops]

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Ninagauth Killing Bolt's conditional spectre does count as summon.

So it will remove any preexisting summon...

... unless you summon the first thing and then make that one summon the second thing ...? 

... or make a variant of it that summons both in the same Attack? Is that possible?

Edited August 11, 2021 by Svartypops

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, Svartypops said:

... unless you summon the first thing and then make that one summon the second thing ...? 

You can only have one "summon" (or pair/triple/qudruplet of the same spell), doesn't matter which comes first.

3 hours ago, Svartypops said:

... or make a variant of it that summons both in the same Attack? Is that possible?

You can mod a summon spell so it doesn't count for the limit. My issue is that I want to implement weapon scaling for this particular summon, and the way I implement it is by checking that the creature has been "summoned". Maybe I won't be able to do both.

[Svartypops]

6 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

You can only have one "summon" (or pair/triple/qudruplet of the same spell), doesn't matter which comes first.

You're right that "a character/actor" can only have one summon, but please see the image above, where I prove that a summon can have it's own summon.

 

Watching the behaviour of the clones created with the wand (they pop when they attack a second time because they can only have one spawn), you get a rippling pattern like the Conway's Game of Life. 

So after two(?) generations you get independence from the original creator. Those don't pop when the generation before the generation before them dies. Aloth is dead in the image, the clones don't just poof away.

If you were to spawn a creature (A) that spawns [whatever you want], you can spawn [your other thing] independently. The other spawn [whatever you want] isn't "your" spawn.

 

  

6 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

You can mod a summon spell so it doesn't count for the limit. 

I didn't know that, can you point me to more info on this, please?

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Svartypops

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Svartypops said:

I didn't know that, can you point me to more info on this, please?

It's a parameter in the attack component of the summon. You can find an example in the "Conjurer/Familiar" file of the Buff package from my mod :

Deadfire Balance Polishing Mod at Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Nexus - Mods and Community (nexusmods.com)

Really the easiest fix of the world.

[Svartypops]

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

It's a parameter in the attack component of the summon. You can find an example in the "Conjurer/Familiar" file of the Buff package from my mod :

Deadfire Balance Polishing Mod at Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Nexus - Mods and Community (nexusmods.com)

Really the easiest fix of the world.

I changed the "SummonType" value to NotSummoned - that seems to do it.

[Elric Galad]

6 minutes ago, Svartypops said:

I changed the "SummonType" value to NotSummoned - that seems to do it.

Yup, that's it.

[Elric Galad]

Whirling Strikes DoT Duration does not scale with PL.
It scales with INT though.
Damages scale with both PL and MIG.

(It was easy to correct on my local mod, will be included in next version. Not that Whirling Strikes is horrible without this scaling, but it felt a bit unfair.)

Edited August 12, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

Apparently, someone on my Nexus page found an use for SC Chanter Tekehu :

"Every proc of an empowered Avenging Storm will trigger the phrase refill from Sasha's Singing Scimitar, allowing Tekehu to regain phrases extremely quickly."

Maybe similar "features" can be found with other Empower items.

[Boeroer]

Every proc of empowered Avenging Storm will also trigger the Least Unstable Coil (usually leading to all tier-3 inspirations from one cast). 

For Chanter Thekehu it's not that important to have Brilliant, but still nice. Also SC Druid Tekehu can have Avenging Storm - just not 1/encounter. 

Usually a Chanter's Her Revenge or Eld Nary also does this (every proc counts as singular spell), so I guess it also works with the Scimitar.

Spells that behave the same (every proc counts as singular spell) and might do something with "moar power to empower"-items like Weyc's Wand or whatever: Storm of Holy Fire, Great Maelstrom, Magran's Might, M's Missile Salvo, Meteor Storm... I guess more but these I know for sure. I would look at Freezing Pillar etc. as well. 

Avenging Storm is very nice because it lasts for so long and you can control when the procs should occur (so you are not "wasting" the phrase refund as much).

The above example with SC Stormspeaker Tekehu is especially nice if you use Sasha's + Hand Mortar with Blinding Smoke (without CP because there BS triggering AS was removed: ((1+AoE_circle_HaMo)*(1+AoE_cone_BliSmo) procs) or Fire in the Hole (1+AoE_cirlce_FitH+1+AoE_cirlce_FitH_jump procs) or Blunderbuss (4 procs) or Sun and Moon (2 procs) or Keeper of the Flame (1+AoE_circle_KotF procs).

Edit: that's not entirely correct. The procs don't work per projectile but instead initial attacks, any kind of AoE blasts (as a whole) and all jumps work as separate procs of Avenging Storm which refund phrases (see test results down below). Blunderbusses don't yield multiple refunds, but mortars and Sun & Moon do.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Every proc of empowered Avenging Storm will also trigger the Least Unstable Coil (usually leading to all tier-3 inspirations from one cast). 

For Chanter Thekehu it's not that important to have Brilliant, but still nice. Also SC Druid Tekehu can have Avenging Storm - just not 1/encounter. 

Yep, bu Sasha's only works on Invocations.

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Usually a Chanter's Her Revenge or Eld Nary also does this (every proc counts as singular spell), so I guess it also works with the Scimitar.

Refund phrases each hit ? Coil works on Hit, but Scimitar works on Lauch Attack if I'm not wrong. Maybe I missed that.

[Boeroer]

7 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Yep, bu Sasha's only works on Invocations.

Yes, that's why I said that Druid won't empower 1/encounter. I worded that poorly. I meant that certain spells procs multiple times from one cast - I was mainly thinking about Least Unstable Coil.

7 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Refund phrases each hit ? Coil works on Hit, but Scimitar works on Lauch Attack if I'm not wrong. Maybe I missed that.

That's what the Reddit quote from you said: 

reddit said:

Every proc of an empowered Avenging Storm will trigger the phrase refill from Sasha's Singing Scimitar, allowing Tekehu to regain phrases extremely quickly.

Avenging Storm procs with every hit roll of a weapon's attack. But maybe the reddit person, you and me mean something different when we use the word "proc" here. And maybe the Unstable Coil works differently from Sasha's Siging Scimitar. I'm not sure, so time to test...
 

Edit: yep. You were right. It's launch attack. Only that AoEs and jumps count as separate lauches. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

I tested it:

Hand Mortar with Blinding Smoke: I went from 0 to 8 (max) phrases after one shot into a bunch of 5 dummies. Refund at least *3. Most likely Blinding Smoke.

Hand Mortar without Blinding Smoke: I only got 6 phrases. Refund *2. It seems the initial shot and the AoE couts as two "procs" or instances of Avenging Storm.

Fire in the Hole with Chain Shot: 8. Refund * 3. Most likely the jump.

Sun & Moon: got 6 phrases from one swing (two flail heads each count as proc I guess).

Blunderbuss: only 3 phrases. Different implementation than Sun & Moon's mutihit obviously.

Thuderous Report: only 3. Despite Avenging Storm doing multiple hit rolls. Only couts as one proc. 

---

So - we both were right and wrong - sort of. You got the exact right idea about the workings (lauches do refund not hits) but maybe didn't know that AoEs and jumps might count as separate lauches (I didn't know that)? And I remembered the multiple refunds from mortars correctly (had that some time ago but didn't pursue) but drew the wrong conclusions.

And yet again some weird mechanic we have to keep track of.   

Edited August 18, 2021 by Boeroer

[thelee]

12 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Every proc of empowered Avenging Storm will also trigger the Least Unstable Coil (usually leading to all tier-3 inspirations from one cast). 

i did not know this. along with this, venombloom, relentless storm, and returning storm, druid might be one of the prime classes able to abuse LUC. chanters do it pretty well, but they also don't benefit from brilliant as much (at least SC).

 

edit: also gr maelstrom.

edit 2: i suppose it actually doesn't matter how many LUC spells a class gets, so long as it gets at least one good one. density of procs is probably the better metric (e.g. venombloom [2x per target per tick] or relentless storm [1x per target at half tick] or missile barrage [lol]).

Edited August 18, 2021 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Reading my post again and thinking about Hunter's Claw while doing so. I think I now understand why mortars always gave me other outcomes than I expected. If not the hit rolls count but only "attack launch" - and initial Attack, every AoE blast of mortars and also Blindikg Some cones count as separate launches - the mechanics of Hunter's Claw seem to make more sense to me now...

I mean I knew Blinding Smoke is OP in the right hands (see Resonant Touch and Avenging Storm) but maybe it's even more OP than I knew. 

That also means that maybe Arcane Archer's Imbue effects not only proc off of jumps but also Blinding Smoke procs? I think I only ever used Fire in the Hole...

Edited August 19, 2021 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Reading my post again and think about Hunter's Claw while doing so. I think I now understand why mortars always gave me other outcomes than I expected. If not the hit rolls count but only "attack launch" - and initial Attack, every AoE blast of mortars and also Blindikg Some cones count as separate launches - the mechanics of Hunter's Claw seem to make more sense to me now...

I mean I knew Blinding Smoke is OP in the right hands (see Resonant Touch and Avenging Storm) but maybe it's even more OP than I knew. 

That also means that maybe Arcane Archer's Imbue effects not only proc off of jumps but also Blinding Smoke procs? I think I only ever used Fire in the Hole...

By the way, from my own observation, Hunter's Claw works strangely with Sun & Moon. Sometimes it provides 2 stacks (that's sure), sometimes not (on dual hit, pretty sure).

[Boeroer]

Yes, it is very weird ability once you start using "non-standard" weapons.