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Nalpazca and Alchemy


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15 replies to this topic

#1
Nssheepster

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This is hardly the first thread about Alchemy and Drugs... But I can't actually seem to google myself a recent list of what Alchemy does or doesn't do. Apparently it WAS OP, then UP because of an overnerfing... But I can't actually find a current listing. Am I missing some thread somewhere, or has it just not been cared about since this nerf I keep seeing threads about?



#2
djinnxy

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  • From 1.2 Patch notes
  •  
  • Consumables are no longer affected by Might, Intellect, or Perception bonuses
  • Consumables now only scale up from their respective skill and status effects that modify Power Level (they are longer affected by character level).
  • Consumable effects were also re-balanced to scale from base level 0 upwards (to match skill advancement from 0). This will also prevent penalties from appearing when using higher skill items.
  • Alchemy Skill no longer affects "Poison" keyworded spells and abilities. (It still affects applied poison consumables)
  •  
  • From 2.0 Patch notes
  •  
  • Halved the bonus PL poisons receive from Alchemy and status effect damage scaling has been reduced from +10% / PL to +5% (in line with other damage scaling bonuses).
  • (Hidden change: Potions potency is no longer changed by alchemy. The length of time is still changed on potions that have a timer. Drugs scale the same as poisons for time and bonuses iirc. I don't recall which patch it was in for certain any more.)
  •  
  • TLDR: The effect was cut in half after nerfing player level and preexisting buffs and it no longer effects spells. Healing pots are now the same no matter what alchemy is. Other pots potency isn't changed, but the length still  has half the bonus. Note that anything not taken directly from patch notes is from memory and I haven't much used alchemy since the 1.2 patch because it kind of sucks compared to Arcana now.

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#3
Boeroer

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Alchemy used to increase the effects of potions, poisons (including poison spells) and drugs dramatically. It was ridiculously overpowered.

Then it got tuned down as shown above.

Nalpasca gives a +10 Power Level bonus to drugs (not positions nor poisons). Like Alchemy also does - but for drugs only.

Alchemy- and Nalpasca-PLs improve the duration and potency of drugs and weaken the crash.

If you skill Alchemy high enough as Nalpasca your crashes will deminish until theyreach zero... and then give you bonuses instead. Too bad a crash on a Nalpasca still means it will prevent healing and drain wounds. So it's not really cheesable.

Boosting drugs by 10 PL just by taking a subclass is quite cool. But the crash is way more severe than with other classes.

Edited by Boeroer, 03 January 2019 - 11:21 PM.


#4
Nssheepster

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So Drug potency WILL eventually increase still?

 

Cuz my Nalpazca isn't actually getting that yet, the character sheet and the buff on my character are still showing the same. I'm not seeing a difference in the combat log either. How much, exactly, do I need to be throwing into Alchemy to get Drugs to start giving extra benefits?

 

I am getting the increased duration though, that's clear. Just... If it's ONLY increased Duration, I'm not 100% sure I care to keep spending all my points there.



#5
djinnxy

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So Drug potency WILL eventually increase still?

 

Cuz my Nalpazca isn't actually getting that yet, the character sheet and the buff on my character are still showing the same. I'm not seeing a difference in the combat log either. How much, exactly, do I need to be throwing into Alchemy to get Drugs to start giving extra benefits?

 

I am getting the increased duration though, that's clear. Just... If it's ONLY increased Duration, I'm not 100% sure I care to keep spending all my points there.

 

I loaded up the old save with my nalpazca that I abandoned after 1.2. No there is no increased potency from alchemy, only time. I don't recall when it changed. Probably was why I abandoned it. It went from the best monk class to the worst in 1 patch. Not to mention it was dual class with wizard focused on poison keyword spells. I haven't used it much since. I put a point or 2 sometimes on companions and often don't even use that companion so... I'm sure someone will argue it's the bees knees, but as i'm concerned alchemy is a waste of space when you can take arcana. I would consider any nalpazca combo a flavor or rp class (i.e. not very good.)



#6
Nssheepster

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Well drat. I guess I'm keeping going for flavor, but... Yech. We need good monk Subclasses. Forbidden Fist itself doesn't actually work out too well. Helwalker is insanely dangerous for not a ton of benefit. Shattered Pillar is the best we get, and it's not honestly needed IMO, just go no subclass.

 

... My god, is Monk another Wizard? One Subclass worth taking and the rest aren't?



#7
djinnxy

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Well drat. I guess I'm keeping going for flavor, but... Yech. We need good monk Subclasses. Forbidden Fist itself doesn't actually work out too well. Helwalker is insanely dangerous for not a ton of benefit. Shattered Pillar is the best we get, and it's not honestly needed IMO, just go no subclass.

 

... My god, is Monk another Wizard? One Subclass worth taking and the rest aren't?

I wouldn't say the other subclasses aren't good either by themselves or in dual class. No sub has it's uses too and is probably the best pure monk. It's still strong otherwise. There's more recent videos floating around showcasing monk pure in particular. It's still a good class. What I will reiterate is that I personally would not take nalpazca after the nerfs. Other opinions may vary. 



#8
nem0

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According to tool tips only the potency from hp/sec in whiteleaf gained a bonus. The rest just increase in duration.

It does however seem to reduce the crash penalty as the skill goes up. At 39 alchemy, coral snuff had 0% crash debuff and then began increasing to positive numbers. 


Edited by nem0, 04 January 2019 - 08:17 PM.


#9
Nssheepster

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According to tool tips only the potency from hp/sec in whiteleaf gained a bonus. The rest just increase in duration.

It does however seem to reduce the crash penalty as the skill goes up. At 39 alchemy, coral snuff had 0% crash debuff and then began increasing to positive numbers. 

That's... a LOT of investment, especially given that only Nalpazca really NEED drugs, and they aren't going to benefit from a 'positive' crash effect since the subclass brings its own. Seems like Alchemy has been dumped really hard and just left that way for a while now. Dissapointing, especially since the last DLC is out now so the chances of a patch to fix the issue isn't likely to come out any time soon.



#10
Boeroer

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Shattered Pillar is bad - because the max wound count is halved. You can only directly generate wounds (with much higher threshold) by auto-attacking already. Don't know why that lower wound capacity is still there.

Forbidden Fist is still a bit bugged/unbalanced right now.

Helwalker is amazing (if you play a second row char in particular). There are few things that boost non-weapon damage besides MIG. And for DoTs the combo of +10 MIG and +10 INT with increased ACC is just the best. Also great pick for healers.

Nalpasca is amazing as well. A drug lasts for a whole fight, there's enough of them so you will never have to fight without one, no matter the drug bonus (that's just a nice plus on top) you will get additional wound generation that stacks with Dance of Death and damage received. If you play a Nalpasca right you will have an endless stream of wounds with no real disadvantages (other than having to use a drug every now and then).

#11
Elric Galad

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If FF is debugged, it will ultimately be able to generate 1wd/per 5s or something like this by using his ability with high resolve and items, except in specific situation (arugably the most dangerous ones) where Hostile Effects rain from the sky.

The class will probably never be able to keep up with other subclasses about wound generation.

But it will probably be OKayish to store up wounds for the monk modals, and it provides a guaranteed way to trigger Crucible of Suffering which is nice.

 

However, FF abiliy is a huge advantage because Enfeeble is an incredibly rare and convenient status to inflict.

Only Rogue (through the very mediocre perishing stike), Single Class Ranger and Single Class Woedica Priest are able to inflict it.

I think this is a huge utility.

 

Mutliclass Monks don't get uber-awesome wounds spenders such as WotW or Resonant Touch, so it will probably be ok for them to trade wound spenders for ability to inflict enfeeble.

 

I imagine FF as a good multiclass with a High Res tanky support such as Paladin, Priest or Troubadour.

Paladin also has the benefit of good synergy between Faith&Conviction and guaranteed Crucible of Suffering.


Edited by Elric Galad, 05 January 2019 - 05:41 AM.


#12
drithius

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Sorry for the necro, but I felt this question belonged here: does alchemy currently affect [crafted] poisons in any way?

 

edit: I tested it with two characters whose alchemy was 1 and 5 (impressive, I know!)  The results are confusing... the accuracy for the higher alchemy went down?

Spoiler

 

edit: I had the the accuracy fighting stance on for the first.  woops.


Edited by drithius, 12 January 2019 - 07:16 AM.


#13
Boeroer

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Maybe you had an injury at that time or so? Or you removed Gauntlets of Accuracy?

Edited by Boeroer, 12 January 2019 - 02:16 AM.


#14
drithius

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Did some more casual testing regarding alchemy and crafted poisons.    The above confusion happened due to leaving a fighter's accuracy stance on (oops).

  • Poison accuracy starts at 20 and only scales off of character power level at a rate of +3/level, alchemy skill at a rate of 0.5acc/point and, seemingly, buffs that explicitly modify accuracy such as cleaving stance, exalted focus, deadeye, etc.
  • +5% damage / point
  • +2.5% duration / point

 

So, at character level 20,  with an average 10 point alchemy skill, that would be: 82 accuracy,  +50% damage, +25% duration.  Not terrible really, especially paired with blunderbuss.


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#15
Nssheepster

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Eh.... Outside of either more investment, or a multi projectile weapon, those stats really don't sound worth it the majority of the time. Which is sad, given that poisons seem like a really cool thing to use for the big bosses of the game, and have a decent variety on offer. Alchemy is indeed dissapointing now, it's not great for drugs or poisons.



#16
Cowdog53

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If you play a Nalpasca right you will have an endless stream of wounds with no real disadvantages (other than having to use a drug every now and then).

 

What do you mean by "[i]f you play [it] right"? 






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