Would you consider Max INT on a Single Class Rogue ?

[Elric Galad]

The question was: would you consider maxing INT on a rogue? Of course.

 

 

To be fair, the thread initial question was specifically about Single Class Rogue, this is the reason why I'm so focused on Vanishing Strike.

 

Toxic Strike was referred as a secondary effect.

In order to specifically max Toxic Strike effects, it is clear that INT is incredibly important. It is probably even worth to go Monk Multi in order to max INT to maximize toxic strike damages.

 

As a result, IMHO :

1) For passive DPS : DEX=PER>>MIG

2) For usual DoT : MIG=INT>PER (because dealing damage faster is as important as dealing more damages. If only damages are considered INT>MIG>PER. Using AoE makes INT even more interesting.)

3) For Toxic Strike : INT>>PER>MIG (as long as you hit, the exponential nature of Toxic Strike damages will benefit much from INT)

4) For Gouging Strike : MIG>PER, INT doesn't matter

5) For Vanishing Strike burst : INT>DEX>PER>>MIG

 

So, for a Single Class Rogue, given that my priorities would be 5 then 1 or 3, my stat choice would be INT=DEX>PER.

Given the protection provided by invisibility, I would be able to dump a bit CON and RES, so I would have enough points for a bit of PER.  

Edited December 30, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

Don't think that fairness was compromised.

 

For the statements like "INT is the better stat than MIG for a DoT rogue" or "Would you consider max INT for a rogue?" (and the objections we are facing) it doesn't really matter if multiclass or single class. In both cases there are situations where you would want to max INT if you want to optimize your build.

 

Not every build, mind you! There will be rogue builds where MIG is more important. Can't think of any clear example atm but there will be.

 

This is a discussion that shows that you shouldn't discard anything just by reflex. Just because your instinct tells you something's not worth considering doesn't mean it really isn't.

 

In this case there are multiple examples that show that "XY is superior than INT on a rogue" might be a strong opinion, but not a very informed one (no offense).

Edited December 30, 2018 by Boeroer

[Yosharian]

I'd rather do more damage quicker than do average damage for a longer period

[Elric Galad]

I'd rather do more damage quicker than do average damage for a longer period

 

Yup, but the whole point of Vanishing Strike is to increase damages for a short time. (while being semi-invincible as a "side effect").

The problem in that case is that this period is SO short that increasing it a bit through INT becomes critical if you don't want the burst duration to become too short.

 

Doing damages "fast" is not specific enough if one doesn't specify a duration.

 

 

 

A Vanishing Strike build aims to optimize DPS over :

                                                                      3                                                         x                                     10s                                                  =       30s

(the number of Vanishing Strike which can be cast in 1 encounter, not counting Empower)      (estimate duration of invisibility per cast with high INT/PL) 

 

With more MIG and less INT, you might be able to do a bit more damages on a shorter duration, but the duration would be far shorter (because INT is basically 5% multiplicative) and the increased DPS won't be that great (because MIG is basically 3% additive with the crapload of bonus damages that Rogues already get).

 

 

Then as Boeroer said, high INT is also highly beneficial for Toxic Strike which is a "backup mode" of this build (or possibly its alpha strike).

 

 

This build doesn't aim to maximize the steady DPS of a Rogue, because I think there are better builds than Single Class Rogue for this purpose (Such as Mindstalker).  

Edited December 30, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Kaylon]

The reality is the stats matter very little for your overall dps (you gain maybe 1dmg/s for every 10p invested in a stat...). 

[Boeroer]

Or maybe not?

[Frog Man]

It's also highly benefical if you use rod+Blast or mortars etc. to apply Arterial/Gouging/Toxic/whatever Strike in an AoE.

 

Also Pernicious Cloud (PEN got fixed and it's good now).

This actually sounds crazy fun. Wanted a single class Rogue build for my boy Eder (though I’ll need to boost his int). Which Rod would be best for this build?

 

Haven’t had time to test but does Wayershaper focus cause toxic strike to bounce?

[Verde]

What would stats look like with maxing Dex Per and Int?

[Boeroer]

 

It's also highly benefical if you use rod+Blast or mortars etc. to apply Arterial/Gouging/Toxic/whatever Strike in an AoE.

 

Also Pernicious Cloud (PEN got fixed and it's good now).

This actually sounds crazy fun. Wanted a single class Rogue build for my boy Eder (though I’ll need to boost his int). Which Rod would be best for this build?

 

Haven’t had time to test but does Wayershaper focus cause toxic strike to bounce?

Yes, Toxic Strike will bounce. But the DoT will not stack (just add some duration). But of course all the direct damage (including Ondra's Wave which does crush damage) and then all the Deep Wounds from double AoE + Ondra's Waves will stack. One reason why my first build (Scout with WS's Focus) still does so much alpha damage if you lure enough enemies to one spot.

 

Using Arterial Strike this way (and add w Wizard with Pull of Eora) is also very good.

 

Boosting Edér's INT to acceptable hights for such an AoE/DoT build is hard.

[Verde]

 

Toxic Strike would greatly benefit but I think you're better off maxing Per and then Dex.

Toxic Strike was a secondary reason though.

 

The main reason was the duration of Vanishing Strike invisibility which is a basically a short duration god mode.

Assassination + backstab add + 25Per, +4Pen, +100% Damages and +50% critical damages so any way to increase the duration would provide a lot of benefit to the spike DPS which is the reason for a Single Class Rogue build.

 

Maxing Dex is anyway a priority if one wants to max the number of strikes while invisibile.

So this is about Per vs Int. Or maybe maxing both while dumping a bit other stats.

 

For a "normal multiclass rogue", I wouldn't prioritarize Int over Per.

So the very last ability you get is the main reason? Sorry I'm not buying that. There is too much game in between and too much anxiety waiting to reach that level to say it's the main reason.

 

Now if you were to argue that invisibility/ duration from all related abilities, sure I'll buy that. I like the idea of a high Int Assassin.

 

When you say normal multiclass, high Int is great on a Mindstalker.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Verde

[Elric Galad]

Well, that's because I'm implicitly comparing the endgame of Multiclass vs endgame of Single Class.

That's why I'm so concerned about a single ability.

A lots of powergamers are more concerned about endgame efficiency ^^ I won't pretend it is rational.

 

 

Single Class characters also gains abilities a lot sooner. So even if Toxic Strike is a secondary argument for the build, getting it a lot sooner would provide a lots of benefits to the Single Class midgame.