Beast of Winter writers?

[xzar_monty]

Does anyone know whether the Beast of Winter DLC was written by the same people as the official Deadfire campaign? My guess is that it was not, or if it was, they had a lot more time and a lot more focus.

 

I mean, the difference in quality is really something. Beast of Winter is so much better.

[AndreaColombo]

Alex Scokel was the narrative lead. Paul Kirsch, Josh Sawyer, and Kate Dollarhyde all contributed. Not sure about Megan Starks.

 

Carrie moved to another project and Eric wasn’t contracted for the expansions.

[Wormerine]

Is quality different? I can't say I noticed that. 

But BoW is far more focused, making for a more engaging and impactful adventure. BoW writing has many of the same strength as base game does (deep attention to culture and world building, individual characters with personality, place in the world, motivations, backstory) but here its just more linear experience, which makes for more natural narrative. It even has some setpieces, which help storytelling and it's something they probably weren't able, didn't have time to do for base game due to sheer scale. Say what you want but seeing all the cool dragon animations does help.

Good stuff. 

[bigbazoopa]

Is quality different? I can't say I noticed that. 

 

But BoW is far more focused, making for a more engaging and impactful adventure. BoW writing has many of the same strength as base game does (deep attention to culture and world building, individual characters with personality, place in the world, motivations, backstory) but here its just more linear experience, which makes for more natural narrative. It even has some setpieces, which help storytelling and it's something they probably weren't able, didn't have time to do for base game due to sheer scale. Say what you want but seeing all the cool dragon animations does help.

 

Good stuff. 

Its a completely different feel i think.

 

Maybe this is becasue of the setting though? Finaly out of the Mediterranean and back to reality?

[xzar_monty]

Mediterranean is reality, though, Beast of Winter is pure fantasy, hopping through realms and time frames.

[xzar_monty]

Say what you want but seeing all the cool dragon animations does help.

 

Good stuff. 

 

It is good stuff.

 

The dragon animations do help, but what I was most impressed by was the narrative teasing. It is really, really well done. Goes like this (POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD!):

 

1) The BoW loading screen informs you that you're going to fight a dragon. Undead one, by the looks of it.

2) Upon arriving at the island, you encounter a dragon, but since it's only a "messenger" and relatively easy, you understand it's not the real thing.

3) You eventually arrive at the place depicted on the loading screen and think you're going to fight it now. After all, the arena is clearly big enough for a dragon battle. But no, the dragon gets sucked away. At this point, you realise that the loading screen actually depicts the dragon being sucked away.

4) Then, you arrive at another, even bigger arena that looks just perfect for a dragon battle. But no, the dragon dives through the ice and disappears.

 

Further than that I have not got with the dragon, so please do not spoil the rest.

 

But boy they've played well with the dragon so far. Tip of the hat!

[Wormerine]

Good point @xzar. Again, such tease would be difficult to design with multiple areas not connected to each other, and when not knowing in what order players will visit them (if not at all). Being as open as Deadfire does present narrative challenges. Something like Witcher 3, while open, did have linear self contained narratives within. Deadfire do as well, but they are much shorter and no individual quests gets as much attention as BoW. Maybe Deadfire bit more than it could chew.

[xzar_monty]

You are quite correct. The game world is both open and large, and the storyline doesn't really dictate where you must go next (also, we wouldn't like it if it did), so it is basically impossible to create suspense in the way I described for BoW.

 

I think the basic Deadfire is pretty good as a whole, except for the main main story which seems a bit on the silly side. It's just that BoW feels so much better, probably because of tighter focus.

[Franknstein]

except for the main main story which seems a bit on the silly side

 

I'd really like to know the reasoning and arguments for this kind of criticism. The end of the story I liked best, the beginning was "ouch, them god stepped on my Watcher, that's gotta hurt". Quite enjoyable the whole stuff.

 

Are there any good reviews out there or something?

[xzar_monty]

 

except for the main main story which seems a bit on the silly side

 

I'd really like to know the reasoning and arguments for this kind of criticism. The end of the story I liked best, the beginning was "ouch, them god stepped on my Watcher, that's gotta hurt". Quite enjoyable the whole stuff.

 

The round table discussions between gods that you get to witness are extremely cringeworthy, since all the participants act like teenagers who have studied early 21st century negotiation strategies in the U.S. There is positively nothing medievally (or otherwise) godlike about them at all. Given the power deities wield, they become implausible the moment they start justifying or rationalizing themselves like considerate humans. It just rings hopelessly false.

 

I am fairly confident that this fault of the main storyline has attracted a lot of people's attention.

Edited November 21, 2018 by xzar_monty

[Franknstein]

But they are false, that's the whole point? =)

[Wormerine]

But they are false, that's the whole point? =)

Then let me have a go. 

 

Personally, my struggle with liking the story of Deadfire is it's lack of clear focus. It is fine to get distracted and let the player get involved in side activities (or even force him to). The problem is when the goal is getting muddled down or when what games wants the player to is in odds with what player wants to do.

 

I think Witcher3 handled this well (being an RPG with defined character it was somewhat easier as writers and narrative designers could depend on what Geralt wants to do, rather than the player.) The overall goal for the game (find and rescue Ciri) was clear throughout, and "distractions" on the way were always an obstacle in reaching this goal. Additionally, the narrative was switching between urgent and loose, providing encouraging both exploration and focus on main story and even game player an excuse to finish other sidequests at certain points of the story (hey, if you do it **** will hit the fan, so make sure you are ready for it, wink, wink). 

 

Deadfire's overall structure and ideas are solid. Chase Eothas, get back your soul. On the way there you need to navigate through tense political tension of Deadfire. But there is so much focus on factions, who pay no mind to reincarnated God, and you spend so little time chasing the God, that I personally felt like the conflict of Deadfire took over as a main story of the game. Which would be fine, except our character has little reason to engage in the conflict (unless for your made up roleplaying reasons) and it is difficult to care about their conflict, knowing the bigger destruction coming. It could work if you were more engaged with Eothas and factions served as background, but in Deadfire they take over. And then we get to the ending, which:

1) doesn't provide satisfying payoff to the faction storyline (I believe the game needed something on the level of Battle of Hooverdam in Fallout:NV considering how massive factions were) and as the result doesn't properly finish what is the main focus of the game for the majority of its runtime. 

2) Doesn't properly explain meaning and consequences behind Eothas' plan which made me confused about how some of the basic laws of Eora.

3) Due to not doing anything Eothas related for tenths of hours before doing straight Ashen Maw and finale, I wasn't nearly as engaged in the Eothas' thread as I should have been.

[Franknstein]

 

But they are false, that's the whole point? =)

Then let me have a go. 

 

Personally, my struggle with liking the story of Deadfire is it's lack of clear focus. It is fine to get distracted and let the player get involved in side activities (or even force him to). The problem is when the goal is getting muddled down or when what games wants the player to is in odds with what player wants to do.

 

I think Witcher3 handled this well (being an RPG with defined character it was somewhat easier as writers and narrative designers could depend on what Geralt wants to do, rather than the player.) The overall goal for the game (find and rescue Ciri) was clear throughout, and "distractions" on the way were always an obstacle in reaching this goal. Additionally, the narrative was switching between urgent and loose, providing encouraging both exploration and focus on main story and even game player an excuse to finish other sidequests at certain points of the story (hey, if you do it **** will hit the fan, so make sure you are ready for it, wink, wink). 

 

Deadfire's overall structure and ideas are solid. Chase Eothas, get back your soul. On the way there you need to navigate through tense political tension of Deadfire. But there is so much focus on factions, who pay no mind to reincarnated God, and you spend so little time chasing the God, that I personally felt like the conflict of Deadfire took over as a main story of the game. Which would be fine, except our character has little reason to engage in the conflict (unless for your made up roleplaying reasons) and it is difficult to care about their conflict, knowing the bigger destruction coming. It could work if you were more engaged with Eothas and factions served as background, but in Deadfire they take over. And then we get to the ending, which:

1) doesn't provide satisfying payoff to the faction storyline (I believe the game needed something on the level of Battle of Hooverdam in Fallout:NV considering how massive factions were) and as the result doesn't properly finish what is the main focus of the game for the majority of its runtime. 

2) Doesn't properly explain meaning and consequences behind Eothas' plan which made me confused about how some of the basic laws of Eora.

3) Due to not doing anything Eothas related for tenths of hours before doing straight Ashen Maw and finale, I wasn't nearly as engaged in the Eothas' thread as I should have been.

 

 

That's refreshing. Much better than "the whole thing is stupid". And – I don't mean to be dismissive – very subjective. I didn't like the Witcher, for example (ah, the heresy!!!11). Boils down to my dislike of the protagonist, but the whole "I am about to save my loved ones, just you wait, do stuff first" story made me sad. In my book "save loved ones" – is highest priority, while "save the world" is no priority at all, 'cause ain't plausible possible. May do stuff while the doom lingers.

 

And yes, a comprehensive guide to to the mechanics and laws of Eora wouldn't hurt. God's, gods and souls stuff 101. M.b. in the p.n.p. game there will be some basic explanations?

 

Can't say much about the factions finale, just skipped to the end before things became terminal. But a nice battle royale never hurts.

[AndreaColombo]

There’s stuff about the gods and the Wheel in the first lorebook, though it’s mostly about what the people of Eora know about it—not overly detailed.