WIP Melee Mindstalker (Trickster/Soulblade) - Single Target DPS/Off-Tank

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hey guys! So, after doing a bit of experimenting with different Cipher builds, I've come up with an idea for a Mindstalker melee DPS that I want to try out on PotD (MAYBE with Deadly Deadfire installed and 1TTFFSSE's "Better Cipher" mod). I ran a bunch of tests with different builds, and this one offered the best blend of survivability and damage (Albeit single-target rather than AoE like the Ascendant single class or Transcendent). I'd like to share my rough notes so far and get feedback on stats, abilities, and equipment. 

 

I tried to take staple Cipher spells that work well in melee, with (fairly) low casting times. 

 

Race: Pale Elf - For both aesthetics, naming conventions, and the Burn/Frost armor resist. 

 

Class: Soul Blade/Trickster

 

Culture/Background: Old Vallia - Aristocrat 

 

Attributes: 

 

17 Might (13 Base + 1 Gift of the Machine +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Permanent Stat Boost)

10 Con (8 Base +2 Berath's Blessing)
17 Dexterity (12 Base +1 Chameleon's Touch +1 Pale Elf +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Aegor's Swift Touch)
20 Perception (16 Base +1 Pale Elf +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Chameleon's Touch)
21 Intellect (18 Base +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Old Vallia)
10 Resolve (8 Base +2 Berath's Blessing)

 

Abilities:

 

Note: I don't remember the exact order you get all of the Trickster stuff, and the Wiki hasn't been updated properly. So, it's accounted for. It's just not 'here.' 

 

Level 1: (a) Soul Annihilation/Escape/Whispers of Treason

Level 2: Crippling Strike

Level 3: Iron Will

Level 4: Two-Weapon Style/Draining Whip

Level 5: Dirty Fighting

Level 6: Recall Agony

Level 7: Secret Horrors/Riposte

Level 8: Finishing Blow

Level 9: Hammering Thoughts

Level 10: Persistent Distraction/Greater Focus

Level 11: Body Attunement

Level 12: Combat Focus

Level 13: Borrowed Instinct/Deep Wounds

Level 14: Devastating Blow

Level 15: Ringleader

Level 16: The Empty Soul/Slippery Mind*

Level 17: Disintegrate

Level 18: Keen Mind

Level 19: Echoing Horror/Deathblows

Level 20: Ancestor's Memory

 

Not sure about Greater Focus and Keen Mind for a Soulblade and how much they really matter, if at all. I might take Tactical Meld for extra damage/engagements as opposed to Keen Mind if those traits are worthless. 

 

Equipment: 

 

Weapons - A couple of different ways to take this. For the melee set, Grave Calling and Rust's Poignard seem like a really good pairing - a hard hitting MH weapon with a fast attacking OH weapon for Finishing Blows and Crippling/Blinding Strikes. Also consider an opener set with Kitchen Stove/Thundercrack Pistol to quickly pump Focus for debuffing/SA. 

 

Armor - Devil of Caroc BP for extra Guile. Alternatively, GP for immunity to either Disengagement attacks (But not Engagement) or Flanked. 

 

Head - Fair Favor. Hit-to-Crit and bonus Crit damage with both melee weapons utilized. 

 

Neck - Precognition for extra crit damage on the first few attacks, and reduced crit damage on the first few attacks taken. Otherwise, not sure. I've also considered just going with the +2 Intellect generic necklace. 

 

Ring 1 - Chameleon's Touch. Very good MC ring, +1/+1 to two attributes depending on class, and +1/+1 to two skills depending on class. 

 

Ring 2 - Entonia's Signet Ring. +2 Diplomacy and +2 to all non-Deflection defenses per enemy engaged. Great when paired with Tactical Meld if I can work it in to the build. Might consider substituting for something else though. 

 

Back - Cloak of Greater Deflection or Cloak of Greater Protection - Standard, really. Not sure if there are any other cloaks that synergize well with this character. 

 

Hands - Bracers of Greater Deflection OR Aegor's Swift Touch for a bit of extra Dexterity and Action Speed with weapons (+5%, so ~2 Dexterity in regards to that)

 

Waist - Upright Captain's Belt, +1 Con and immunity to push/pull effects or Gwyn's Bridal Garter for resistance to Dexterity Afflictions (Leaning towards Gwyn's for more widespread applications)

 

Boots: Boots of the Stone (+1 Dex/Res, Resistance to Might afflictions) and then upgrade to Rakhan Field Boots through the Vallian questline for +3 Corrode AR and a per-Encounter mini Charge (Pre-nerf)

 

Disclaimer: When providing feedback, please keep the following in mind. 

 

I've experimented with a lot of different Cipher builds before getting to this point. This build, for me, offers the best combination of what I want in terms of DPS and survivability. It might not be the highest damage of all Cipher multiclasses, but it's definitely up there, even with the Full Attack dual wield nerf. There's a billion (Well, really 10 - or more like 7 since Priest, Wizard, and Druid are terrible MC options for a Cipher) different ways to run a Cipher multi, and I feel like they could be, and often are, all viable in the game's current state. This one just seems the most fun, even if it might not be the most varied. 

 

I'm also not going to min/max if I can help it. Stats will remain at 10 base, with Blessings, because playing as a timid, frail character is not fun for me from a roleplay sense. So don't just comment saying "Drop Resolve, you don't need it." Especially since this build is meant to engage enemies with Wizard defensive buffs. 

 

Do you have experience with a build like this? Great, your feedback is highly appreciated. 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[Metaturtle]

I agree with staying away from the talents that add initial focus.

If you have not read my recent rymgrand artist post, killing an enemy with soul annihilation while equipped with an on kill effect like Grave Calling will trigger the effects (chillfog or imp) even if the enemy is not a vessel and it doesn't matter even if Grave Calling is equipped on your offhand. So you could go around SA deathblowing enemies as you spawn clouds of death.

It's nice to know since you'll probably be noticing that as you kill stuff with Grave Calling. You also get focus back from the damage chillfog does too!

 

 

Edit: Post written before 2.1.  Won't proc on SA kill and works normally.  You still get focus.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Metaturtle

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

I agree with staying away from the talents that add initial focus.

 

If you have not read my recent rymgrand artist post, killing an enemy with soul annihilation while equipped with an on kill effect like Grave Calling will trigger the effects (chillfog or imp) even if the enemy is not a vessel and it doesn't matter even if Grave Calling is equipped on your offhand. So you could go around SA deathblowing enemies as you spawn clouds of death.

 

It's nice to know since you'll probably be noticing that as you kill stuff with Grave Calling. You also get focus back from the damage chillfog does too!

 

... Okay, that has to be a bug. Maybe because you're annihilating their soul? 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Oh, and is that why I was getting the effect on kill where the enemies would freeze and then shatter? Because that's a really cool effect, and I'd hate for it to be patched out. 

[Metaturtle]

 

I agree with staying away from the talents that add initial focus.

 

If you have not read my recent rymgrand artist post, killing an enemy with soul annihilation while equipped with an on kill effect like Grave Calling will trigger the effects (chillfog or imp) even if the enemy is not a vessel and it doesn't matter even if Grave Calling is equipped on your offhand. So you could go around SA deathblowing enemies as you spawn clouds of death.

 

It's nice to know since you'll probably be noticing that as you kill stuff with Grave Calling. You also get focus back from the damage chillfog does too!

... Okay, that has to be a bug. Maybe because you're annihilating their soul?

I do not doubt it might be changed at some point. :0 I do like to think that it just razes their soul so hard to basic components that it just finds a way to do its magical deal lol. Edited September 12, 2018 by Metaturtle

[Metaturtle]

Oh, and is that why I was getting the effect on kill where the enemies would freeze and then shatter? Because that's a really cool effect, and I'd hate for it to be patched out.

Ya

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

 

I agree with staying away from the talents that add initial focus.

 

If you have not read my recent rymgrand artist post, killing an enemy with soul annihilation while equipped with an on kill effect like Grave Calling will trigger the effects (chillfog or imp) even if the enemy is not a vessel and it doesn't matter even if Grave Calling is equipped on your offhand. So you could go around SA deathblowing enemies as you spawn clouds of death.

 

It's nice to know since you'll probably be noticing that as you kill stuff with Grave Calling. You also get focus back from the damage chillfog does too!

... Okay, that has to be a bug. Maybe because you're annihilating their soul?

I do not doubt it might be changed at some point. :0 I do like to think that it just razes their soul so hard to basic components that it just finds a way to do its magical deal lol.

 

 

Honestly, it's a neat little bug... And I don't think it's /that/ overpowered. We can just say narratively that you're essentially pulling a VERY rough Ydwin. 

 

Also, thoughts on race? It's a toss-up for me between Pale Elf (Nice armor bonus and some dialogue interactions) and Human. Is it possible to make a human-ish looking Pale Elf? Like a half-elf? 

[Metaturtle]

I think you can pull off a decent human look as pale elf. Pale elf kinda helps if you get confused inside a chillfog because of the +4 freeze ar though getting the bloodied bonuses from human is pretty sweet once you manage to lockdown the enemies in a heated moment.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Metaturtle

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

I think you can pull off a decent human look as pale elf. Pale elf kinda helps if you get confused inside a chillfog because of the +4 freeze ar though getting the bloodied bonuses from human is pretty sweet once you manage to lockdown the enemies in a heated moment.

 

Both are true!

[Haplok]

First of all, you're missing Draining Whip. That's kinda mandatory.

 

Definitely drop Greater Focus. Keen Mind has it's use on a Soulblade, mainly to be able to start combat with Borrowed Instinct. But If you plan to open with a high damage weapon aoe, like you suggest, then its kinda moot.

 

I still like Tenuous Grasp for a cheap -20 Will. Even funnier if the enemy is weak to one of its effects (see Giant Cave Grub).

Psychovampiric Shield would also be nice, but I have trouble fitting it in my builds also.

 

I'd probably skip Blinding Strike. With Persistent Distraction you'll apply a lower level Perception debuff passively. I'd very rarely use that for 2 Guile instead of Finishing/Devastating Blow. There are better options for aoe Blind: Chillfog, even Cipher's own Eyestrike. If I would pick it, I'd definitely pick the Confounding Blind upgrade to strongly debuff enemy Deflection.  But I typically give it to Eder - just to use a few times in the game for some annoying bosses.

Instead I'd pick Mental Binding. I know the focus isn't casting, but that's a nice hard CC. Plus aoe Immobilize can come in handy too - you don't really want to be surrounded with this character and melee enemies are kinda helpless for the duration (immobilize tends to last longer then the Paralyze effect).

Because you don't want to be surrounded and have multiple enemies focusing you, Entonia's Signet Ring seems to be a really bad choice. Get Ring of Greater Regeneration or something.

 

I'm not sure how much mileage you'll get from Disintegrate. I'd prolly just SA instead. Personally I like Mind Plague, with Dazed enemies I feel much safer with moderate armor being in the thick of things.

 

Race isn't that important really. I'd go with what I like. Probably not human though - with this build I feel safer not Blooded if I can avoid it. Probably Hearth Orlan is best, but I might go with Pale Elf for coolness factor + armor as well.

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and I feel obliged to keep advertising Ecto Echo for party play. It's cheap, targets a good defense (reflex) on each tick, rather then once or fail, can often affect 2 targets at a time (sometimes more).

Edited September 12, 2018 by Haplok

[Metaturtle]

I agree with staying away from the talents that add initial focus.

 

If you have not read my recent rymgrand artist post, killing an enemy with soul annihilation while equipped with an on kill effect like Grave Calling will trigger the effects (chillfog or imp) even if the enemy is not a vessel and it doesn't matter even if Grave Calling is equipped on your offhand. So you could go around SA deathblowing enemies as you spawn clouds of death.

 

It's nice to know since you'll probably be noticing that as you kill stuff with Grave Calling. You also get focus back from the damage chillfog does too!

 

Ah damn, so I just got home and patched 2.1.  Looks like they did something with SA and i'm even seeing some missing string stuff. I'm thinking that the issues that had essence interrupter spawning units weirdly could have been related with the whole SA deal.   Grave Calling still functions normally though and you still get focus from chillfog procs.  Continue on and build this like any rounded rogue class.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Metaturtle

[Verde]

You missed the most important skill silly, Draining Whip

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

You missed the most important skill silly, Draining Whip

 

'Doy. I didn't even realize... I guess I figured "I'll put it in later," and then never did. 

 

 

 

I agree with staying away from the talents that add initial focus.

 

If you have not read my recent rymgrand artist post, killing an enemy with soul annihilation while equipped with an on kill effect like Grave Calling will trigger the effects (chillfog or imp) even if the enemy is not a vessel and it doesn't matter even if Grave Calling is equipped on your offhand. So you could go around SA deathblowing enemies as you spawn clouds of death.

 

It's nice to know since you'll probably be noticing that as you kill stuff with Grave Calling. You also get focus back from the damage chillfog does too!

 

Ah damn, so I just got home and patched 2.1.  Looks like they did something with SA and i'm even seeing some missing string stuff. I'm thinking that the issues that had essence interrupter spawning units weirdly could have been related with the whole SA deal.   Grave Calling still functions normally though and you still get focus from chillfog procs.  Continue on and build this like any rounded rogue class.

 

 

So Soul Annihilation is completely broken now? Greeeeat. Hopefully they fix it before SSS comes out. 

 

Edit: Or, well, the interaction between it and Grave Calling that spawned Chill Fog on kill against non-vessels is broken, I mean. Which... I don't think broke the really cool on-death effect where enemies froze and shattered, which is cool. I think it's an on-crit thing for being killed with a frost lash. Which is good! I liked that. The damage is still more or less the same?

 

... You know, I was playing with 2.1 installed anyway, so I probably didn't even have it to begin with...

 

What do you mean by "Missing Stringtables"? I've seen those a few times with other stuff (Most especially the Ring of Prosperity's Fortune) and I can't stand them. 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

First of all, you're missing Draining Whip. That's kinda mandatory.

 

Definitely drop Greater Focus. Keen Mind has it's use on a Soulblade, mainly to be able to start combat with Borrowed Instinct. But If you plan to open with a high damage weapon aoe, like you suggest, then its kinda moot.

 

I still like Tenuous Grasp for a cheap -20 Will. Even funnier if the enemy is weak to one of its effects (see Giant Cave Grub).

Psychovampiric Shield would also be nice, but I have trouble fitting it in my builds also.

 

I'd probably skip Blinding Strike. With Persistent Distraction you'll apply a lower level Perception debuff passively. I'd very rarely use that for 2 Guile instead of Finishing/Devastating Blow. There are better options for aoe Blind: Chillfog, even Cipher's own Eyestrike. If I would pick it, I'd definitely pick the Confounding Blind upgrade to strongly debuff enemy Deflection.  But I typically give it to Eder - just to use a few times in the game for some annoying bosses.

Instead I'd pick Mental Binding. I know the focus isn't casting, but that's a nice hard CC. Plus aoe Immobilize can come in handy too - you don't really want to be surrounded with this character and melee enemies are kinda helpless for the duration (immobilize tends to last longer then the Paralyze effect).

Because you don't want to be surrounded and have multiple enemies focusing you, Entonia's Signet Ring seems to be a really bad choice. Get Ring of Greater Regeneration or something.

 

I'm not sure how much mileage you'll get from Disintegrate. I'd prolly just SA instead. Personally I like Mind Plague, with Dazed enemies I feel much safer with moderate armor being in the thick of things.

 

Race isn't that important really. I'd go with what I like. Probably not human though - with this build I feel safer not Blooded if I can avoid it. Probably Hearth Orlan is best, but I might go with Pale Elf for coolness factor + armor as well.

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and I feel obliged to keep advertising Ecto Echo for party play. It's cheap, targets a good defense (deflection) on each tick, rather then once or fail, can often affect 2 targets at a time (sometimes more).

 

Thanks for the advice, and for not telling me I'm dumb for picking this (Some people have)... 

 

Addressing your points;

 

1. I knooow. I felt so dumb, realizing I'd done that. I dropped Blinding Strike for it. 

 

2. I'll drop Greater Focus for Mental Binding - it comes late, but then better late than never, I suppose. When picking GF and KM, I was concerned with the maximum amount of focus I could get, for better Soul Annihilations. 

 

3. Tenuous Grasp instead of Iron Will, maybe? +15 Will is good, but since I'm not dumping Resolve it might be kind of moot. 

 

4. Will definitely reconsider the ring choice. Maybe Ring of Greater Regeneration, as suggested, or the Ring of Prosperity's Fortune for extra hit-to-crit. 

 

5. Will drop Disintegrate for Mind Plague, especially if I go with the aforementioned Cipher tweaks mod, because it makes Mind Plague a 0.5 second cast. 

[Metaturtle]

 

You missed the most important skill silly, Draining Whip

 

'Doy. I didn't even realize... I guess I figured "I'll put it in later," and then never did. 

 

 

 

I agree with staying away from the talents that add initial focus.

 

If you have not read my recent rymgrand artist post, killing an enemy with soul annihilation while equipped with an on kill effect like Grave Calling will trigger the effects (chillfog or imp) even if the enemy is not a vessel and it doesn't matter even if Grave Calling is equipped on your offhand. So you could go around SA deathblowing enemies as you spawn clouds of death.

 

It's nice to know since you'll probably be noticing that as you kill stuff with Grave Calling. You also get focus back from the damage chillfog does too!

 

Ah damn, so I just got home and patched 2.1.  Looks like they did something with SA and i'm even seeing some missing string stuff. I'm thinking that the issues that had essence interrupter spawning units weirdly could have been related with the whole SA deal.   Grave Calling still functions normally though and you still get focus from chillfog procs.  Continue on and build this like any rounded rogue class.

 

 

So Soul Annihilation is completely broken now? Greeeeat. Hopefully they fix it before SSS comes out. 

 

Edit: Or, well, the interaction between it and Grave Calling that spawned Chill Fog on kill against non-vessels is broken, I mean. Which... I don't think broke the really cool on-death effect where enemies froze and shattered, which is cool. I think it's an on-crit thing for being killed with a frost lash. Which is good! I liked that. The damage is still more or less the same?

 

... You know, I was playing with 2.1 installed anyway, so I probably didn't even have it to begin with...

 

What do you mean by "Missing Stringtables"? I've seen those a few times with other stuff (Most especially the Ring of Prosperity's Fortune) and I can't stand them. 

 

 

It's a good possibility that you were already playing 2.1 and I was just here talking crazy lol.  The paralyzation on crit from stacking the frost lash is probably the effect you are looking at where they all turn stony (icy?).  The string stuff just pops up a lot from artifact code and the damage is still the same.  Now you just gotta be on the lookout for undead vessels and make a beeline to them.

[Haplok]

Hmm, just a thought. With Ring of Prosperity's Fortune and Dirty Fighting you could have a semi-decent crit rate. Maybe if you managed to stack some more bonuses (Hearth Orlan?), you could take advantage of The Complete Self Focus refund on crits with spells like Ecto Echo (ticks every second, can hit multiple targets) or Secret Horrors (large aoe). It's just a little bonus anyway, but could be nice.

[Metaturtle]

Hmm, just a thought. With Ring of Prosperity's Fortune and Dirty Fighting you could have a semi-decent crit rate. Maybe if you managed to stack some more bonuses (Hearth Orlan?), you could take advantage of The Complete Self Focus refund on crits with spells like Ecto Echo (ticks every second, can hit multiple targets) or Secret Horrors (large aoe). It's just a little bonus anyway, but could be nice.

 

Do you know the chance rate of the passive?

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hmm, just a thought. With Ring of Prosperity's Fortune and Dirty Fighting you could have a semi-decent crit rate. Maybe if you managed to stack some more bonuses (Hearth Orlan?), you could take advantage of The Complete Self Focus refund on crits with spells like Ecto Echo (ticks every second, can hit multiple targets) or Secret Horrors (large aoe). It's just a little bonus anyway, but could be nice.

 

What would I replace for it, though? The problem with playing a build like this is that ability choice is going to be very tight. 

[Haplok]

 

Hmm, just a thought. With Ring of Prosperity's Fortune and Dirty Fighting you could have a semi-decent crit rate. Maybe if you managed to stack some more bonuses (Hearth Orlan?), you could take advantage of The Complete Self Focus refund on crits with spells like Ecto Echo (ticks every second, can hit multiple targets) or Secret Horrors (large aoe). It's just a little bonus anyway, but could be nice.

 

Do you know the chance rate of the passive?

 

 

Aww, it's a CHANCE for a whole of 5 Focus? Damn Obsidian...

Edited September 12, 2018 by Haplok

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

 

Hmm, just a thought. With Ring of Prosperity's Fortune and Dirty Fighting you could have a semi-decent crit rate. Maybe if you managed to stack some more bonuses (Hearth Orlan?), you could take advantage of The Complete Self Focus refund on crits with spells like Ecto Echo (ticks every second, can hit multiple targets) or Secret Horrors (large aoe). It's just a little bonus anyway, but could be nice.

 

Do you know the chance rate of the passive?

 

 

Aww, it's a CHANCE for a whole of 5 Focus? Damn Obsidian...

 

 

They really like their chances....

 

... I'm very sorry.

 

Anyway, yeah, I'm gonna pass if that's the case. Five focus really ain't worth it. 

[Verde]

Honestly it's one of the worst passives considering when you get it lol.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Also, how about pets? Abraham, for Recovery reduction/heal on kill? Or is there a pet that increases AoE size by a fair bit?

[Metaturtle]

Peter, corlagon, and Loki have some aoe buffs. Not sure about the new 2.1 pets though.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Peter, corlagon, and Loki have some aoe buffs. Not sure about the new 2.1 pets though.

 

I'm almost tempted to go with Loki 'cause it kinda fits the Mindstalker aesthetic. 

 

Edit: Loki grants +15% AoE range. I'm not sure if that would affect Ryngrim's Enervating Terror, which is the biggest thing that I'd want to use it for since the range on that seems pretty small, even with close to 20 Int. He also grants a Stride boost to the whole party, but that's relatively irrelevant. 

 

This is in comparison to Abraham, who more or less eliminates the DoC Breastplate's Recovery penalty, as well as the Recovery penalty for Gipon Prudensco, which is my secondary armor for this guy both in terms of looks and enchantments. 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[Verde]

Cyrus I'm looking forward to progress on this char because Mindstalker is my fav class but I've never been able to find that perfect chemistry.

 

Now in the long run will that -10% Sneak Attack add up? Is it worth taking a vanilla Rogue or is the utility simply that good for Tricksters?

Edited September 13, 2018 by Verde