Thematically Revising Priest Special Spells...

[Stardusk78]

As I am not a Lord of the Technical, and as there are many far more qualified Lords of the Technical to address mechanical matters, I wanted to address the selection of Priest spells available for each deity. I think all of them could use some improvement, both in terms of utility and theme, some more than others. No comment means it is fine as is.

 

Berath

 

PL 1 Touch Of Rot

PL 2 Holy Meditation (Poor and should be replaced, Autumn's Decay would be a good alternative or Spiritual Weapon)

PL 3 Spreading Plague (Decent but I think again that Autumn's Decay would be a better choice assuming Spiritual Weapon for PL2)

PL 4 Divine Terror (OKish but I would like to see Infestation of Maggots instead)

PL 5 Rot Skills

PL 6 Salvation of Time

PL 7 Rusted Armor

PL 8 Symbol of Berath

PL 9 Hand Of Berath

 

Eothas

 

PL 1 Sunbeam

PL 2 Withdraw (Pretty bad imo and could be replaced by Infuse With Vital Essence; I think this is appropriate because of Eothas status as God of Renewal and Rebirth)

PL 3 Watchful Presence (not good, not bad, could stay but probably better alternatives that don't come to mind)

PL 4 Circle of Protection (OK but I would prefer to see something, however not much available at this level)

PL 5 Revive The Fallen

PL 6 Minor Intercession (OKish but I would like to see it replaced with Sunlance, which would be very appropriate)

PL 7 Ressurrection (OK and appropriate, can stay)

PL 8 Symbol of Eothas

PL 9 Light Of Eothas

 

Magran (Might probably requires the least revision imo)

 

PL 1 Fan Of Flames

PL 2 Spiritual Weapon (Not terrible but has little synergy, would prefer to see Burst of Summer Flame)

PL 3 Ray Of Fire

PL 4 Shining Beacon (OKish but I think Deleterious Alacrity of Motion would be better; Magran is the Goddess of Consumption and Transformation so I think this would be appropriate)

PL 5 Flame Shield

PL 6 Pillar Of Holy Fire

PL 7 Torrent Of Flame

PL 8 Symbol Of Magran

PL 9 Magran's Might

 

Skaen

 

PL 1 Barbs Of Condemnation (Get rid of it, instead give penalised (akin to Trickster), Sneak Attack)

PL 2 Escape

PL 3 Divine Mark (Get rid of it, replace it with Blinding Strike)

PL 4 Finishing Blow

PL 5 Shadowing Beyond

PL 6 Spiritual Ally (feels inappropriate, replace with Deep Wounds)

PL 7 Minor Avatar

PL 8 Symbol Of Skaen

PL 9 Revenge of Skaen

 

Wael

 

PL 1 Arcane Veil

PL 2 Iconic Projection (Rubbish, replace with Curse Of Blackened Sight)

PL 3 Mirrored Image

PL 4 Llengrath's Displaced Image

PL 5 Confusion (Meh, replace with Ryngrim's Enervating Terror)

PL 6 Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment

PL 7 Gaze Of The Adragan

PL 8 Symbol Of Wael

PL 9 Blessings Of Wael

 

Feel free to improve or add suggestions!

 

Partial Credit To Max Quest For Some Inspiration!

Edited August 20, 2018 by Stardusk78

[mosspit]

The MaxQuest has quite a comprehensive list in this post. Maybe you might wanna check it out.

[Dorftek]

Shining Beacon being one of very few priest spells I rank very highly, I'm curious to know why u think it is only "OK'ish" and should be replaced on Magran?

 

Same with Salvation of time.

[grasida]

Regarding priests of Eothas, I’d like to see more off-class spells for them. Infuse with vital essence might be okay, but sun lance would compete with pillar of holy fire, which does more damage and in an AoE at the same level.

 

Personally, I’d like to see them get some Paladin powers, like lay on hands, hands of light, inspired beacon and maybe even sacred immolation. As Maxquest pointed out in the other thread, a fun thing about priests is the ability to get powerful abilities from other classes. It makes for strong synergies and it’s fun, but priests of Eothas miss out on that, which kind of sucks.

[Boeroer]

In which scenario can Salvation of Time be poor?

[Stardusk78]

In which scenario can Salvation of Time be poor?

Poor compared to something else. Perhaps I should revise it?

[Stardusk78]

Regarding priests of Eothas, I’d like to see more off-class spells for them. Infuse with vital essence might be okay, but sun lance would compete with pillar of holy fire, which does more damage and in an AoE at the same level.

 

Personally, I’d like to see them get some Paladin powers, like lay on hands, hands of light, inspired beacon and maybe even sacred immolation. As Maxquest pointed out in the other thread, a fun thing about priests is the ability to get powerful abilities from other classes. It makes for strong synergies and it’s fun, but priests of Eothas miss out on that, which kind of sucks.

This guy has already upgraded Eothas and it is a decent improvement:

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/72?tab=posts

[Boeroer]

 

In which scenario can Salvation of Time be poor?

Poor compared to something else. Perhaps I should revise it?

I think it's one of the best spells there is (when using smart combos). With decent INT you can extend Barring Death's Door for quite a lot of time - just one example.

[Stardusk78]

 

 

In which scenario can Salvation of Time be poor?

Poor compared to something else. Perhaps I should revise it?

 

I think it's one of the best spells there is (when using smart combos). With decent INT you can extend Barring Death's Door for quite a lot of time - just one example.

 

I bow to the wisdom of the Lord God Boeroer.

[Dorftek]

Lord God :D

[Boeroer]

Yeah yeah...

 

I also think the spell fits a Priest of Berath thematically very well. Of course on itself it's not very useful. You have to combine it with something else. For example it can extend stuff like Ascended and I also believe it prolongs Spiritshift(?). Too bad you can't cast it to prolong Citzal's Martial Power (I mean on yourself if you are a priest/wizard).

Edited August 20, 2018 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

On the other hand, a properly geared Ascendant shouldn't take much longer to reach Ascension again then it takes to cast SoT and recover...

Even less if he's a strong multiclass with something other then a Priest...

[gkathellar]

My two (three?) pand:

• I'm fond of the "mini multi-class" model used by Wael (illusionist), Skaen (rogue), and Berath (druid), and think it should be extended and universalized. I generally think that priests can pick out their own priest spells - non-priest spells are what they really want.
• This leaves open the question of what classes, exactly, Eothas and Magran should ape. In the former case, I guess you could go paladin, but that feels wrong to me - Eothas is never really characterized as a warrior god. For Magran, I could see either of two routes: either play up the warrior-goddess bit and give her a bunch of fighter abilities (plus maybe FoD?), or alternately load her up with fire spells from wizard and druid as a mini-evoker. Some of both could work, but I think role focus is desirable here.
• No passives. Yes, that rules out minor Sneak Attack for Skaenites, but I don't think it's a good idea to decouple these abilities from the caster resource system at random.

[Stardusk78]

My two (three?) pand:

• I'm fond of the "mini multi-class" model used by Wael (illusionist), Skaen (rogue), and Berath (druid), and think it should be extended and universalized. I generally think that priests can pick out their own priest spells - non-priest spells are what they really want.
• This leaves open the question of what classes, exactly, Eothas and Magran should ape. In the former case, I guess you could go paladin, but that feels wrong to me - Eothas is never really characterized as a warrior god. For Magran, I could see either of two routes: either play up the warrior-goddess bit and give her a bunch of fighter abilities (plus maybe FoD?), or alternately load her up with fire spells from wizard and druid as a mini-evoker. Some of both could work, but I think role focus is desirable here.
• No passives. Yes, that rules out minor Sneak Attack for Skaenites, but I don't think it's a good idea to decouple these abilities from the caster resource system at random.

I am not sure what is fundamentally wrong with passives. In POE Priests of Skaen got a mini Sneak Attack. Seems fine to me.

[gkathellar]

 

My two (three?) pand:

• I'm fond of the "mini multi-class" model used by Wael (illusionist), Skaen (rogue), and Berath (druid), and think it should be extended and universalized. I generally think that priests can pick out their own priest spells - non-priest spells are what they really want.
• This leaves open the question of what classes, exactly, Eothas and Magran should ape. In the former case, I guess you could go paladin, but that feels wrong to me - Eothas is never really characterized as a warrior god. For Magran, I could see either of two routes: either play up the warrior-goddess bit and give her a bunch of fighter abilities (plus maybe FoD?), or alternately load her up with fire spells from wizard and druid as a mini-evoker. Some of both could work, but I think role focus is desirable here.
• No passives. Yes, that rules out minor Sneak Attack for Skaenites, but I don't think it's a good idea to decouple these abilities from the caster resource system at random.

I am not sure what is fundamentally wrong with passives. In POE Priests of Skaen got a mini Sneak Attack. Seems fine to me.

 

It's not really comparable. That was a deeply different system of abilities and progression, in which priests of different gods didn't receive bonus spells by default and in which all priests had access to all of their spells at all times.

 

Consider the main casters in Deadfire - priest, druid, and wizard. Every priest and druid receives a bonus spell for each PL, while wizards have grimoires. This ensures that, by design, a main caster will always have at least one spell of every available PL, meaning that they never have a section of their resources that they simply can't use. I don't object to priests having access to more passive abilities on principle, but I also don't think they should come at the expense of those bonus spells, which are effectively there as a baseline and fail-safe.

 

Now that said, Barbs of Condemnation is totally inappropriate and it should go. But I'd rather replace it with an active ability.

Edited August 20, 2018 by gkathellar

[Stardusk78]

 

 

My two (three?) pand:

• I'm fond of the "mini multi-class" model used by Wael (illusionist), Skaen (rogue), and Berath (druid), and think it should be extended and universalized. I generally think that priests can pick out their own priest spells - non-priest spells are what they really want.
• This leaves open the question of what classes, exactly, Eothas and Magran should ape. In the former case, I guess you could go paladin, but that feels wrong to me - Eothas is never really characterized as a warrior god. For Magran, I could see either of two routes: either play up the warrior-goddess bit and give her a bunch of fighter abilities (plus maybe FoD?), or alternately load her up with fire spells from wizard and druid as a mini-evoker. Some of both could work, but I think role focus is desirable here.
• No passives. Yes, that rules out minor Sneak Attack for Skaenites, but I don't think it's a good idea to decouple these abilities from the caster resource system at random.

I am not sure what is fundamentally wrong with passives. In POE Priests of Skaen got a mini Sneak Attack. Seems fine to me.

 

 

It's not really comparable. That was a deeply different system of abilities and progression, in which priests of different gods didn't receive bonus spells by default and in which all priests had access to all of their spells at all times.

 

Consider the main casters in Deadfire - priest, druid, and wizard. Every priest and druid receives a bonus spell for each PL, while wizards have grimoires. This ensures that, by design, a main caster will always have at least one spell of every available PL, meaning that they never have a section of their resources that they simply can't use. I don't object to priests having access to more passive abilities on principle, but I also don't think they should come at the expense of those bonus spells, which are effectively there as a baseline and fail-safe.

 

Now that said, Barbs of Condemnation is totally inappropriate and it should go. But I'd rather replace it with an active ability.

 

We'll see what the guy does but I do like the Eothas changes he made, rolled a Universalist with the new Priest of Eothas and it works well.

[FailGeek]

Hello. I reading the topic and was thinking of modding the priest spells, so I made a table of the current priests' (including the cut Woedica) bonus spells, where they came from, and the power level difference between when the priests get them and when the other classes can get them. Some thoughts :

• The Berath, Eothas and Woedica are the only priests who have a positive Power Level difference in their bonus spells.
• Berath's Rot Skulls and Wael's Arcane Veil are the only bonus spells that are obtained earlier.
• The Harvester gets a raw deal. A full -7 difference, and it's capstone is originally PL 7.
• I did a quick check on the ability tool tips and it seems the Power Level scaling of the ability is based on the level it was set as, so Vile Thorns, while a PL 1 spell for druids, is PL scaled as a PL 3 spell for Harvesters. The base is still the same, so priests gets abilities later, and they are weaker for the PL they are obtained.
• Wizards essentially get their spells for the small, small cost of a trinket cost and a Grimoire switch cool down time. Priests get Wizard spells by giving up one of their bonus slots and often get them later.
• Priests who get martial class abilities (that is, Skaen) are in a bit of a weird state. Martial classes draw from a combined pool, so using their abilities means they can use less of their other abilities. Priests can cast two spells of a single level per encounter, not impacting the other spell levels. A priest of Skaen can use Escape only twice per battle but can still can cast 16 other spells, but a single class Rogue can use Escape theoretically 11 times, and then do nothing else but auto attack. However, the ability version can be upgraded; the spell version is stuck being the same.

I too like the idea of making the priests mini Multiclasses, but I don't like the idea of removing priest spells entirely from the bonus pool although I do see the argument). The full question is how much of the theme-effect-role triangle the bonus spells fit in because I don't like any of them having any common spells between them (except for Eothas and Gaun, as they're different aspects of the same god). I have Eothas, Gaun and Magran at a level I'm satisfied with (edit: actually the more I look at them the less I'm satisfied with them):

• Eothas: Light, benevolence. Support Paladin Cross class.
  1. Sunbeam
  2. Lay on Hands
  3. Watchful Presence/Consecrated Ground
  4. Glorious Beacon
  5. Revive the Fallen
  6. Sunlance
  7. Healing Chain
  8. Symbol of Eothas
  9. Light of Eothas
• Magran: Fire, struggle. Got two sets: Fighter mid-line cross |OR| Paladin frontline cross.
  1. Disciplined Barrage |OR| Flames of Devotion
  2. Spiritual Weapon |OR| Infuse with Vital Essence -the one I'm iffy on. DAoM at least requires a cost to it
  3. Vigorous Defense |OR| Deleterious Alacrity of Motion
  4. Wall of Flame |OR| Triumph of the Crusaders
  5. Torrent of Flame |OR| Flame Shield
  6. Pillar of Holy Fire |OR| Torrent of Flame
  7. Cleansing Flame |OR| Sacred Immolation
  8. Symbol of Magran
  9. Magran's Might
• Gaun: Plants, Instant Death and Eothas mirror. Plant Druid cross class.
  1. Blessed Harvest
  2. Vile Thorns
  3. Watchful Presence/Consecrated Ground (Can also be Purge of Toxins if you want to lean Full Druid)
  4. Wicked Briars
  5. Wall of Thorns
  6. Garden of Life
  7. Lashing Vine
  8. Symbol of Eothas
  9. Touch of Death

Berath, Skaen, Rymrgand and Wael have a weird overlap concerning Damage over time effects, causing afflictions and corrode damage, so they'll need more work.

Edited August 23, 2018 by FailGeek

[Stardusk78]

Hello. I reading the topic and was thinking of modding the priest spells, so I made a table of the current priests' (including the cut Woedica) bonus spells, where they came from, and the power level difference between when the priests get them and when the other classes can get them. Some thoughts :

• The Berath, Eothas and Woedica are the only priests who have a positive Power Level difference in their bonus spells.
• Berath's Rot Skulls and Wael's Arcane Veil are the only bonus spells that are obtained earlier.
• The Harvester gets a raw deal. A full -7 difference, and it's capstone is originally PL 7.
• I did a quick check on the ability tool tips and it seems the Power Level scaling of the ability is based on the level it was set as, so Vile Thorns, while a PL 1 spell for druids, is PL scaled as a PL 3 spell for Harvesters. The base is still the same, so priests gets abilities later, and they are weaker for the PL they are obtained.
• Wizards essentially get their spells for the small, small cost of a trinket cost and a Grimoire switch cool down time. Priests get Wizard spells by giving up one of their bonus slots and often get them later.
• Priests who get martial class abilities (that is, Skaen) are in a bit of a weird state. Martial classes draw from a combined pool, so using their abilities means they can use less of their other abilities. Priests can cast two spells of a single level per encounter, not impacting the other spell levels. A priest of Skaen can use Escape only twice per battle but can still can cast 16 other spells, but a single class Rogue can use Escape theoretically 11 times, and then do nothing else but auto attack. However, the ability version can be upgraded; the spell version is stuck being the same.

I too like the idea of making the priests mini Multiclasses, but I don't like the idea of removing priest spells entirely from the bonus pool although I do see the argument). The full question is how much of the theme-effect-role triangle the bonus spells fit in because I don't like any of them having any common spells between them (except for Eothas and Gaun, as they're different aspects of the same god). I have Eothas, Gaun and Magran at a level I'm satisfied with (edit: actually the more I look at them the less I'm satisfied with them):

• Eothas: Light, benevolence. Support Paladin Cross class.

  • Sunbeam
  • Lay on Hands
  • Watchful Presence/Consecrated Ground
  • Glorious Beacon
  • Revive the Fallen
  • Sunlance
  • Healing Chain
  • Symbol of Eothas
  • Light of Eothas
• Magran: Fire, struggle. Got two sets: Fighter mid-line cross |OR| Paladin frontline cross.

  • Disciplined Barrage |OR| Flames of Devotion
  • Spiritual Weapon |OR| Infuse with Vital Essence -the one I'm iffy on. DAoM at least requires a cost to it
  • Vigorous Defense |OR| Deleterious Alacrity of Motion
  • Wall of Flame |OR| Triumph of the Crusaders
  • Torrent of Flame |OR| Flame Shield
  • Pillar of Holy Fire |OR| Torrent of Flame
  • Cleansing Flame |OR| Sacred Immolation
  • Symbol of Magran
  • Magran's Might
• Gaun: Plants, Instant Death and Eothas mirror. Plant Druid cross class.

  • Blessed Harvest
  • Vile Thorns
  • Watchful Presence/Consecrated Ground (Can also be Purge of Toxins if you want to lean Full Druid)
  • Wicked Briars
  • Wall of Thorns
  • Garden of Life
  • Lashing Vine
  • Symbol of Eothas
  • Touch of Death

Berath, Skaen, Rymrgand and Wael have a weird overlap concerning Damage over time effects, causing afflictions and corrode damage, so they'll need more work.

 

Have you considered sharing the files if you choose to alter the Priest spells? The biggest overlap is between Berath and Rymrgand, which is I think natural as they both represent aspects of death. Berath is cyclical and Rymrgand is final. IF I had amazing modding powers like some do I would made Berath mostly about DOT and Rymrgand mostly about straight up damage. I posted a Rymrgand build I was using that was a spellcasting powerhouse in this light. I would focus more on entropy with Rymrgand and do the following:

 

Rymrgand: Entropy, Final Death, Winter

 

PL 1

 

Touch Of Rot (I think this is a good spell and appropriate even if there is some overlap with Berath but as we move up PL we should see some diversification)

 

PL 2

 

Necrotic Lance (I think that as much as Rymrgand represents Winter, entropy and finality are stronger aspects so I would swap to this spell)

 

PL 3

 

Deleterious Alacrity Of Motion (This spell has great utility but it comes at a cost, an entropic one, which is well suited to Ryrmgand's portfolio)

 

PL 4

 

Noxious Burst (No Problem here)

 

PL 5

 

Noxious Cloud (I think for continuity's sake this is more appropriate than Blast Of Frost)

 

PL 6

 

Ningauth's Freezing Pillar (This spell is fairly amazing and there is not entropic alternative, so I say keep it)

 

PL 7

 

Death Ring (excellent spell)

 

PL 8

 

Fine

 

Pl 9

 

Fine

[FailGeek]

Have you considered sharing the files if you choose to alter the Priest spells? The biggest overlap is between Berath and Rymrgand, which is I think natural as they both represent aspects of death. Berath is cyclical and Rymrgand is final. IF I had amazing modding powers like some do I would made Berath mostly about DOT and Rymrgand mostly about straight up damage. I posted a Rymrgand build I was using that was a spellcasting powerhouse in this light. I would focus more on entropy with Rymrgand and do the following:

 

Rymrgand: Entropy, Final Death, Winter

 

PL 1

 

Touch Of Rot (I think this is a good spell and appropriate even if there is some overlap with Berath but as we move up PL we should see some diversification)

 

PL 2

 

Necrotic Lance (I think that as much as Rymrgand represents Winter, entropy and finality are stronger aspects so I would swap to this spell)

 

PL 3

 

Deleterious Alacrity Of Motion (This spell has great utility but it comes at a cost, an entropic one, which is well suited to Ryrmgand's portfolio)

 

PL 4

 

Noxious Burst (No Problem here)

 

PL 5

 

Noxious Cloud (I think for continuity's sake this is more appropriate than Blast Of Frost)

 

PL 6

 

Ningauth's Freezing Pillar (This spell is fairly amazing and there is not entropic alternative, so I say keep it)

 

PL 7

 

Death Ring (excellent spell)

 

PL 8

 

Fine

 

Pl 9

 

Fine

 

 

I'll put the file up on the Nexus when I'm done with it, I just work slowly and am never satisfied.

 

Rymyrgand I feel suits DoT more than direct damage. Yeah he'll kill you outright, but I feel like he's really more into grinding you down. Remember his PoE 1 quest where he essentially goes to the Pale Elves "Sure you've done the whole shebang a lot of times, but you know what would be great? A lot MORE times." So I've got him down as:

1. Chill Fog (replacing Touch of Rot - Lean into the Winter side of things and gives a way to inflict PER Affliction)
2. Blizzard
3. Spreading Plague
4. Infestation of Maggots (replaces Noxious Burst - Avoiding direct damage. Spreading Plague also inflicts a stronger CON Affliction.)
5. Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring (replaces Blast of Frost - Avoiding direct damage.)
6. Ninagauth's Freezing Pillar
7. Got a few candidates for this one, each with their one Pros and Cons:
   1. Death Ring: Cool, but I've already leaned away from Corrode damage
   2. Rot Skulls: Has a DoT, but likewise for Death Ring
   3. Ninagauth's Killing Bolt: Serves as a Raw Damage upgrade to Infestation of Maggots, but is Direct Damage
   4. Rusted Armor: Entropic, but flavour wise it affects the person's armor and not the person themself.
   5. Tayn's Chaotic Orb: Direct Damage but comes with Afflictions

For Berath I've been leaning into a different direction entirely: Buff/Debuff control. Berath has control over living and dying, especially when someone lives or dies. She can stall it or make it go faster, and if you think you've got your life under control she'll rob you of that view very quickly. To that end, I'm giving the Priest Arcane Dampener, and Wall of Draining from the Wizard spell list and two out of Suspend Affliction, Barring Death's Door, and Salvation of Time from the Priest's spell list. It's all the other Power Levels that I'm stumped at.