How does disintegrate work ? IT doesnt seem to work as descibed

[Teclis23]

I sometimes land heaps of disintegrates on enemies and it appears to hardly do any damage. The description says 240 raw per ??? sec. If i was doing this much damage the enemy should be melting but this is not happening

 

Anyone no why this is?

[grasida]

As far as I understand, 240 damage per 3 seconds is a display bug. Actually, it does 240 damage over the entire duration of the ability. It's strongly in the running for best single target DoT (maybe losing out to toxic strike), but 240 damage per 3 seconds would just be insane.

[Boeroer]

The damage that is mentioned is the overall damage which will be done over all ticks. It's an UI bug.

 

Afaik Disintegrate still has fixed damage when it comes to duration - no matter the INT, the overall damage will stay the same. But but drops/raises with MIG. So a low INT character would do more dps with it than a high INT character. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Gfted1]

It looks like it attacks Fortitude. Do certain mooks have better Fort than others?

[Clerith]

It looks like it attacks Fortitude. Do certain mooks have better Fort than others?

Yes. Many enemies have much higher Fortitude than Deflection, to the point of almost ridiculousness.

 

@OP, to be sure, check the combat log if you landed the spell and how much damage it's doing per tick.

[grasida]

The damage that is mentioned is the overall damage which will be done over all ticks. It's an UI bug.

 

Afaik Disintegrate still has fixed damage when it comes to duration - no matter the INT, the overall damage will stay the same. But but drops/raises with MIG. So a low INT character would do more dps with it than a high INT character. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That's consistent with my understanding, but I haven't tested it very thoroughly. I think grazes and crits also only influence the duration, not the damage, so it does more damage per tick on a graze and less damage per tick on a crit.

It looks like it attacks Fortitude. Do certain mooks have better Fort than others?

The received wisdom of the community is that fortitude tends to be the highest defense among things that are hard to kill in the first place. If something has low fortitude, usually it also has low deflection and low HP and therefore dies quickly to weapon attacks. But since disintegrate can be made to do hideous amounts of damage anyway, it's still good. The fact that it's better on a graze and worse on a crit also contributes to the fact that accuracy isn't a huge concern.

[Boeroer]

More dps on a graze or moer overall damage? Because the latter would be totally weird for me.

 

Since there is Body Blows high fortitude usually isn't a problem. And since you get drwwend in weapon proficiencies anyways (with a party) it doesn't hurt to bring a guy who can also do Body Blows.

 

Actually a cipher with Morning Star isn't so bad either. Hit an enemy with body blows yourself and then cast Soul Ignition or Disintegration or what ever targets fortitude. Pairs well with a Fighter who uses Mule Kick (targets fort) or a Monk who uses Force of Anguish (dito). In a party or multiclass. I played a Helwalker/Cipher for half a playthrough an concentrated on Soul Ignition rahter than Disintegrate because it works with the Ring of Focused Flame and scales with high INT. Instruments of Pain: throw your morning star + Body Blows + Enervating Blows at somebody's head, then follow up with Soul Ignition (best case: eq. of +45 ACC against fortitude), then Force of Aguish - repeat with somebody else. It's fun. The High INT gives you very long lasting Body Blows and a nice duration of FoA and afflictions.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Boeroer

[grasida]

More dps, definitely not more overall damage. But I tested it a few weeks ago and I can't remember exactly what I did and what the numbers were.

[Clerith]

Since Graze reduces both the damage and duration by 50%, wouldn't it be exactly the same dps as a regular Hit if it worked like old PoE dots?

 

Or do I just fail at math...

Edited August 17, 2018 by Clerith

[Teclis23]

Im pretty certain that it isnt even doing 240 damage over its entire duration. That alot of damage and im not noticing it.

[grasida]

More dps, definitely not more overall damage. But I tested it a few weeks ago and I can't remember exactly what I did and what the numbers were.

Okay, no scratch what I said, it does more total damage on graze with lower int. The reason seems to be that the damage presented in the description is the total damage after the first tick. The first tick that applies as soon as the spell lands doesn't count. So with a bigger first tick, you do overall more damage.

 

With 10 might and 1 int, on a graze and with no other damage boosts, I did 175, 175, 65 with a listed duration of 4.5 seconds.

 

On a crit, I did 70, 70, 70, 70, 31 with a listed duration of 10.3 seconds.

 

On a hit, I did 87, 87, 87, 65 with a duration of 8.3 seconds.

Edited August 17, 2018 by grasida

[Dr <3]

Yes, with low ont + graze basically become a nuke

[grasida]

Since Graze reduces both the damage and duration by 50%, wouldn't it be exactly the same dps as a regular Hit if it worked like old PoE dots?

 

Or do I just fail at math...

 

Graze only influences the duration of DoTs. Most DoTs adjust their total damage according to duration, so if you graze and roll a shorter duration, you do less total damage. For those DoTs, reducing damage on a graze as well would be overly punishing, since you'd multiply the total damage twice. Similarly, crits only affect the duration -- if they applied to damage as well, that would be overpowered, since total damage usually scales with duration.

 

But there are a good number of DoTs that do the same amount of damage regardless of the duration (or actually, more damage with a lower duration, though I've only checked that specifically with disintegrate). For those, reducing the duration means you apply the total damage over a shorter duration and deal more damage per tick.

 

The way to tell the difference seems to be DoTs that have a bugged description and state their total damage in the description as per tick don't scale their damage according to duration. DoTs with a normal description do. Going from other threads, not my own personal testing, "wounding" type DoTs that do a percent of your damage over time don't scale with duration, and therefore are the "stupid" type.

Edited August 17, 2018 by grasida

[grasida]

Okay, things get really wacky with cleansing flame. Cleansing flame is a "stupid" DoT, in that it states its total damage up front. And it works like disintegrate, in that the first tick is "free" and not covered by the description.

 

But, cleansing flame has a very short duration, short enough to go under 3 seconds with low int or on a graze. So testing cleansing flame with 1 int, I got:

 

1) On hit -- 87 damage, 80 damage, 2.8 second duration.

2) On crit -- 175 (!!) damage, 80 damage, 1.4 second duration.

[Boeroer]

That screams for a bug reports.

 

And not with Silent Screams...

Edited August 17, 2018 by Boeroer

[1TTFFSSE]

Though it is not really practical to dump intelligence on cipher for disintegrate/soul ignition because too many other things will suffer for it like your debuff durations.

I could see going 20+might, 20+dex something like 12-14 intelligence though. You can't really use Aloth's robes or the overseeing rings because there are better options for armor and rings. 

[Boeroer]

As a damage-focused Soulblade you don't need debuffs (I mean not necessarily). You could dump INT to 1 and just use Shred powers without any duration and AoE (Mind Blades, Mind Lance, Disintegrate and so on). The upside would be that you could put a lot of points into other attributes. 

[thundercleese]

So based on these observations do you think it will do more total damage against characters with a high resolve?

[Boeroer]

Seems like it.

[InsaneCommander]

The damage that is mentioned is the overall damage which will be done over all ticks. It's an UI bug.

 

Afaik Disintegrate still has fixed damage when it comes to duration - no matter the INT, the overall damage will stay the same. But but drops/raises with MIG. So a low INT character would do more dps with it than a high INT character. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Yes, with low ont + graze basically become a nuke

 

This is insane.