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Hey guys, 

So, I'm running into a bit of a self-paralyzing logic error where I come up with a bunch of different concepts or ideas for builds, and they all seem to work just fine, so I'm not sure which one I want to devote my time to. Every one of them has very good skill synergies, both classes work together well, the weapons aren't terribly hard to come by, it's just a matter of... which one is worth 60+ hours of extensive questing and Faction questing and exploring? 

 

From process of elimination, I know I want to play a character that's considered heavy on the damage. 

 

I'm calling upon people who have done a lot of different experimenting with various options to lend their experiences with the four builds I'm about to post. Since roleplay can also be fun, I'll include a couple details about how I plan to play each character, or what archetype they'll represent/faction they'll support. 

 

1. Ranged Mindstalker (No-Subclass/Ascendant or Streetfighter/Ascendant): I made another thread discussing whether or not I could get away with a No-Subclass Rogue for a ranged build, but I'm really not a fan of how people try to get Streetfighter to work at range. Either get yourself beat almost to death and then rescued with BDD or use a Blunderbuss and constantly burn your hands to the point of serious nerve damage. So I'm hoping No-Subclass or Assassin would be at least workable. 

 

Build: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103907-characterroleplay-build-the-agent-mindstalker-streetfighterascendant/

 

This character is designed as an agent for the RDC, with ties to the Rauatai navy as an intelligence officer. He specializes in espionage, sabotage, and assassination, and is very much Lawful Neutral. That doesn't mean he's 'always on' though, and he's quite the mellow fellow when he's not working. 

 

Concerns: 

- Recovery Time (If not using Streetfighter)

- Balancing Rogue and Cipher abilities (And their Recovery Times)

- Low(ish) Might and the Cipher damage spells/whether I should even take the three that I have. 

 

2. Ranged Transcendent (Ascendant/Helwalker): This one trades out the Rogue's Sneak Attack damage for more of a focus on Cipher spells, with an easily obtainable 35 Might and 30 Int heavily boosting powers like Mind Blades, Disintegrate, Amplified Wave, and Ectopsychic Echo. 

 

This character's faction is a little more flexible. 

 

Concerns: 

- Overall squishiness with no real "Escape button"

- High vulnerability to damage with max Wounds

- Might's bonus damage not really affecting weapon damage all that much. 

 

3. Melee Marauder (Berserker/Streetfighter): A concept that's been very near and dear to my heart and brought about from a character I've been playing for some time in various media. Not a lot to say about him - he uses Frenzy (With a means of removing the Confusion) as well as other Barbarian passives to make the most out of being Bloodied and surrounded, while relying on defensive gear to help him survive. 

 

Build: None, but my notes about this character are buried in the forums SOMEWHERE

 

This character would be a pro-Principi pirate, and specifically a member of the new bloods. Deadfire born, but not fortunate enough to be in the good graces of either the VTC or the RDC, and not considered Huana because of his human blood, he's seeking to carve out a piece of the Deadfire for himself. Staunchly Chaotic Neutral. 

 

Concerns: 

- Overall squishiness, especially with being unable to see his health. Human flags when he's Bloodied though, but not when he's Near Death. 

- Poor defenses when Frenzied, even when I'm able to remove Confusion

 

4. Melee Sage or Spellblade (Shattered Pillar/Wizard or Streetfighter/Wizard): The same concept, more or less, with two different interpretations. Basically, the character would make use of the Wizard spell Citzal's Spirit Lance to do high damage to enemies in an AoE. The Monk variant would use Monk's Wound spending Primary Attack powers, while the Rogue would spread Afflictions and thus Sneak Attack damage around with Streetfighter, while using Wizard's Deflection buffs to stay safe while Flanked. 

 

This character would decidedly be either VTC or Huana

 

Of the four, right now I'm leaning most toward Mindstalker, simply because of the number of unique dialogue options Cipher offers and because the little bit of the Principi questline I've done hasn't really appealed to me. From a gameplay perspective, Rogue/Cipher also offers a much wider range of tools to play with - from enfeebling/ensnaring enemies to using Cipher spells to deal not-insignificant damage to wide areas (Though my character's somewhat low Might is of concern here). The synergy with Rogue is obviously there, more Afflictions means more ways to trigger Deathblows. 

 

Essentially... if you've played with multiple of these builds listed here, which one did you have the most fun with, and why? Are there any changes you'd make to my Mindstalker build?

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I'm not a huge fan of streetfighter dps builds. I don't think the damage they do above other rogue subclasses is worth messing around with the blunderbuss modal and there are plenty of other high damage builds. That said, marauder streetfighter can legitimately activate heating up, though it's usually through bloodied and not flanked because it's semi-difficult to flank a Barbarian. Frenzy should be okay to compensate for the looking for a fight penalty. Of the Berserker multiclasses, I like Brute (Berserker/Devoted). Lots of hit to crit, lots of pen (+4), armored grace, stack mob stance and reckless brigandine for speed (hold the line, thick skin, brigandine, barbaric shout) and the extra satisfying whirlwind cleanup when you get the kill and the mob stance AoE racks up kills for instant smashes on carnage weakened targets.

 

I've done two Sage builds (vet and PotD) and I think Citzal's is novel and enjoyable but a tier down from other damage builds. Monk lacks a full attack early and wizard doesn't provide it. Other monk builds do significantly more single target and later on full Wizards AoE better. I think it's probably the best 2h build not exploiting the broken Wahai Porga or the Confused + Deltro's Cage Helm + Lord Darryn's Volgue trick if that still works. For spellblade, I've read AoE blind on Citzal's is good but it wouldn't have anywhere near the area size that a sage does so I haven't tried it.

 

I like ascendants in general but I've only done the early part of the game with a melee transcendant. It worked fine but I play a lot of monk so I'm used to being pretty squishy. Use the constitution part of Duality until you get Turning Wheel, stack athletics, and get the Undying Burden. For ranged Cipher, I've spent more time with an ascendant/ghostheart using the engage immune pet as an echo target. If you want to do a mindstalker I don't see any particular reason it wouldn't work.

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I'm not a huge fan of streetfighter dps builds. I don't think the damage they do above other rogue subclasses is worth messing around with the blunderbuss modal and there are plenty of other high damage builds. That said, marauder streetfighter can legitimately activate heating up, though it's usually through bloodied and not flanked because it's semi-difficult to flank a Barbarian. Frenzy should be okay to compensate for the looking for a fight penalty. Of the Berserker multiclasses, I like Brute (Berserker/Devoted). Lots of hit to crit, lots of pen (+4), armored grace, stack mob stance and reckless brigandine for speed (hold the line, thick skin, brigandine, barbaric shout) and the extra satisfying whirlwind cleanup when you get the kill and the mob stance AoE racks up kills for instant smashes on carnage weakened targets.

 

I've done two Sage builds (vet and PotD) and I think Citzal's is novel and enjoyable but a tier down from other damage builds. Monk lacks a full attack early and wizard doesn't provide it. Other monk builds do significantly more single target and later on full Wizards AoE better. I think it's probably the best 2h build not exploiting the broken Wahai Porga or the Confused + Deltro's Cage Helm + Lord Darryn's Volgue trick if that still works. For spellblade, I've read AoE blind on Citzal's is good but it wouldn't have anywhere near the area size that a sage does so I haven't tried it.

 

I like ascendants in general but I've only done the early part of the game with a melee transcendant. It worked fine but I play a lot of monk so I'm used to being pretty squishy. Use the constitution part of Duality until you get Turning Wheel, stack athletics, and get the Undying Burden. For ranged Cipher, I've spent more time with an ascendant/ghostheart using the engage immune pet as an echo target. If you want to do a mindstalker I don't see any particular reason it wouldn't work.

 

They adjusted Lord Darryn's Voulge so it works (I'm assuming) as intended now - you no longer shock yourself (or your allies) to death when using it. That said, there's still the Wahai Porga or whatever for a good AoE Pollaxe option. 

 

Brute does sound like a lot of fun! It offers a bit more of a defensive toolkit, which is appreciated. 

 

I do agree as far as Streetfighter goes. Even if it's 80% bonus damage compared to 30%. 

 

How did Ascendant/Ghost Heart work in terms of damage? I've heard that it has the most unique dialogue options of any multiclass (40, 25 from the Cipher, 15 from the Ghost Heart, probably more from the Ranger), but I've also heard that Ranger's, well, ranged damage is somewhat lacking. 

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How did Ascendant/Ghost Heart work in terms of damage? I've heard that it has the most unique dialogue options of any multiclass (40, 25 from the Cipher, 15 from the Ghost Heart, probably more from the Ranger), but I've also heard that Ranger's, well, ranged damage is somewhat lacking.

I think rangers are fine in terms of damage. They're just kind of boring mechanically. All the power in the tree is concentrated into the passive accuracy boosts, accurate wounding shot, Driving Flight and Twinned Shot so if your script is set up to spam those and use a good weapon (Frosteeker, Red Hand, Dragon's Dowry) you'll have no problem ascending and from there you're a high accuracy caster so your spells tend to crit. Mind Blades from an ascendant is really strong in the early game and can carry most fights by itself. Having an extremely fast summon that's fairly beefy makes a lot of encounters easier because the AI will dump their initial damage burst/CC into the pet to kill it and it takes you half a second to re-summon. My biggest annoyance with ghostheart is having to set the pet's AI mode every time it gets summoned.

 

The Ranger reputation for low damage comes from comparison to builds that have since been nerfed. Accuracy is really strong, particularly when you're using weapons and equipment that get bonuses from crits. Without accounting for spell damage I expect the damage to be lower but in the same ballpark as the other builds you have listed and certainly not low enough to be a problem.

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Not necessarily the most effective or a power build, but I had lots of fun with my ranged Dual Pistol Beguiler/Trickster Mindstalker.  Basically a lot of crowd control and turning enemies against each other.  I think I had more fun with that build than my heavy damage dealers.

Edited by robogiffo
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Not necessarily the most effective or a power build, but I had lots of fun with my ranged Dual Pistol Beguiler/Trickster Mindstalker. Basically a lot of crowd control and turning enemies against each other. I think I had more fun with that build than my heavy damage dealers.

Did this build too. Once you get Borrowed Instinct and Ringleader, lights out. Played it both melee and ranged - check out Eye of Wael and Whale of a Wand if you want to dual wield two unusual but effective weapons.

 

It's actually been my most fun build from a RP perspective as well as team cohesion.

Edited by Verde
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