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Cipher - Ranged (Spearcaster or Frostseeker) Multiclass Options? Is a DPS Cipher Viable?


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#1
Cyrus_Blackfeather

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Hey guys, 

 

So, after reading about a lot of the Cipher buffs on these here forums, I kind of wanted to give it another try. I had a lot of fun with a Ranged Cipher back in PoE1, for the lore, and thought it might be worth reviving that character in this game, especially considering it has the most dialogue options available to it of any class. It would probably be another approach to the Rauatai Spymaster character I've played around with. I had a few quick questions before I commit to trying to plan anything. 

 

1. Is it worth it to try to play a DPS Ranged Cipher? My character in the first game heavily focused on what would be called "Shreds" in this game - things like Mind Wave, Amplified Wave, Disintegrate, and so on. Now, either I was playing a poorly designed character from the start, or those skills were never all that great to begin with, because no one seems to talk about them anymore. Would it be possible/viable to play a character that focuses on offensive Cipher spells, with a few CC spells worked in? 

 

2. Multiclass Options: Multiclassing offers a lot of opportunities for the Cipher, especially because T8 and T9 don't really offer much that isn't already covered in the other tiers. I'd like to hear your thoughts on multiclass options in this most recent patch. Here are the ones I'm considering.

 

- Witch (Cipher/Berserker): Uses Barbarian's Frenzy and a few other abilities to deal high Weapon damage at range. Barbaric Blow can be used as a ranged attack, to build up a fairly massive chunk of Focus, and the bonus Penetration from Frenzy should help the damage of my abilities. 

 

- Transcendent (Cipher/Helwalker): Uses Dance of Death to gain wounds and, in the case of certain Ranged weapons, counteract the Accuracy penalty. Holds onto those wounds for high Might and Intellect, as well as a Burn damage lash, and uses Swift Strikes/Swift Flurry to boost cast time/reload speed. 

 

- Mindstalker (Cipher/Rogue): Another thematically appropriate option for the Spymaster character I've been considering. Ranged Damage with powerful Rogue attack powers to build up focus, and then unload Cipher spells on them. Honestly, the only issue really preventing me from going all in with this is that I hate the name. "Mindstalker" doesn't really fit with things like "Witch" or "Inquisitor." 

 

- Inquisitor (Cipher/Bleak Walker): Uses Black Flames at range for a powerful strike with added Corrode and Fire damage, as well as Paladin passives to help stay alive. Definitely the most thematically appropriate of the builds so far, considering the character type I'm considering playing with it. 

 

Right now, I'm heavily leaning towards the Inquisitor, followed by the Mindstalker, followed by the Witch, followed by the Transcendent, in terms of roleplay, but that's for another forum. I'd like to hear about how each of those would play, mechanically. 


Edited by Cyrus_Blackfeather, 11 July 2018 - 11:40 AM.


#2
1TTFFSSE

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with unlimited aoe damage spell spam cipher can top the damage scoreboard, just saying. but their cc spells are so good you end up using cc spells instead of dps spells a lot which makes dps numbers go down compared to a rogue or zerker which pretty much dps 100% of the time.

 

I'd actually also go inquisitor (melee) bleakwalker/ascendant, stack deflection+borrowed instinct, get insane defenses and retaliate/riposte with an aoe weapon to insta max focus. than spam more aoe damage spells.



#3
Cyrus_Blackfeather

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with unlimited aoe damage spell spam cipher can top the damage scoreboard, just saying. but their cc spells are so good you end up using cc spells instead of dps spells a lot which makes dps numbers go down compared to a rogue or zerker which pretty much dps 100% of the time.

 

I'd actually also go inquisitor (melee) bleakwalker/ascendant, stack deflection+borrowed instinct, get insane defenses and retaliate/riposte with an aoe weapon to insta max focus. than spam more aoe damage spells.

 

But... Arcane Blaster! 

 

Also, I just added Mindstalker as an option (Originally I was very meh about the whole thing just because of the name, compared to things like 'Inquisitor', but I can't judge an entire multiclass on the name), so if that changes your mind, there it is. 

 

I DO like the idea of a Bleak Walker/Inquisitor though, that's definitely my first choice. And by "Stack Deflection" do you actually mean "Stack Resolve"? Or is this another build where I dump Resolve in favor of something else? 



#4
1TTFFSSE

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with unlimited aoe damage spell spam cipher can top the damage scoreboard, just saying. but their cc spells are so good you end up using cc spells instead of dps spells a lot which makes dps numbers go down compared to a rogue or zerker which pretty much dps 100% of the time.

 

I'd actually also go inquisitor (melee) bleakwalker/ascendant, stack deflection+borrowed instinct, get insane defenses and retaliate/riposte with an aoe weapon to insta max focus. than spam more aoe damage spells.

 

But... Arcane Blaster! 

 

Also, I just added Mindstalker as an option (Originally I was very meh about the whole thing just because of the name, compared to things like 'Inquisitor', but I can't judge an entire multiclass on the name), so if that changes your mind, there it is. 

 

I DO like the idea of a Bleak Walker/Inquisitor though, that's definitely my first choice. And by "Stack Deflection" do you actually mean "Stack Resolve"? Or is this another build where I dump Resolve in favor of something else? 

 

Nah stats would be:

 

Max Int

Max Perc

Good Dex (maybe not max but fast)

Good Might

Flat Con

Flat Res

 

You use Psychovampiric shield+Borrowed Instinct to buff resolve/ defenses like deflection further if you want to be in melee

 

if you are ranged you can dump res and con at 8 but then you are squishy.



#5
Cyrus_Blackfeather

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with unlimited aoe damage spell spam cipher can top the damage scoreboard, just saying. but their cc spells are so good you end up using cc spells instead of dps spells a lot which makes dps numbers go down compared to a rogue or zerker which pretty much dps 100% of the time.

 

I'd actually also go inquisitor (melee) bleakwalker/ascendant, stack deflection+borrowed instinct, get insane defenses and retaliate/riposte with an aoe weapon to insta max focus. than spam more aoe damage spells.

 

But... Arcane Blaster! 

 

Also, I just added Mindstalker as an option (Originally I was very meh about the whole thing just because of the name, compared to things like 'Inquisitor', but I can't judge an entire multiclass on the name), so if that changes your mind, there it is. 

 

I DO like the idea of a Bleak Walker/Inquisitor though, that's definitely my first choice. And by "Stack Deflection" do you actually mean "Stack Resolve"? Or is this another build where I dump Resolve in favor of something else? 

 

Nah stats would be:

 

Max Int

Max Perc

Good Dex (maybe not max but fast)

Good Might

Flat Con

Flat Res

 

You use Psychovampiric shield+Borrowed Instinct to buff resolve/ defenses like deflection further if you want to be in melee

 

if you are ranged you can dump res and con at 8 but then you are squishy.

 

 

Hmm... That actually sounds pretty neat. Any good AoE melee weapon suggestions? I hear Whispers of the Endless Paths got a pretty bad nerf. 



#6
Zelse

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Hey guys, 

 

So, after reading about a lot of the Cipher buffs on these here forums, I kind of wanted to give it another try. I had a lot of fun with a Ranged Cipher back in PoE1, for the lore, and thought it might be worth reviving that character in this game, especially considering it has the most dialogue options available to it of any class. It would probably be another approach to the Rauatai Spymaster character I've played around with. I had a few quick questions before I commit to trying to plan anything. 

 

1. Is it worth it to try to play a DPS Ranged Cipher? My character in the first game heavily focused on what would be called "Shreds" in this game - things like Mind Wave, Amplified Wave, Disintegrate, and so on. Now, either I was playing a poorly designed character from the start, or those skills were never all that great to begin with, because no one seems to talk about them anymore. Would it be possible/viable to play a character that focuses on offensive Cipher spells, with a few CC spells worked in? 

 

2. Multiclass Options: Multiclassing offers a lot of opportunities for the Cipher, especially because T8 and T9 don't really offer much that isn't already covered in the other tiers. I'd like to hear your thoughts on multiclass options in this most recent patch. Here are the ones I'm considering.

 

- Witch (Cipher/Berserker): Uses Barbarian's Frenzy and a few other abilities to deal high Weapon damage at range. Barbaric Blow can be used as a ranged attack, to build up a fairly massive chunk of Focus, and the bonus Penetration from Frenzy should help the damage of my abilities. 

 

- Transcendent (Cipher/Helwalker): Uses Dance of Death to gain wounds and, in the case of certain Ranged weapons, counteract the Accuracy penalty. Holds onto those wounds for high Might and Intellect, as well as a Burn damage lash, and uses Swift Strikes/Swift Flurry to boost cast time/reload speed. 

 

- Mindstalker (Cipher/Rogue): Another thematically appropriate option for the Spymaster character I've been considering. Ranged Damage with powerful Rogue attack powers to build up focus, and then unload Cipher spells on them. Honestly, the only issue really preventing me from going all in with this is that I hate the name. "Mindstalker" doesn't really fit with things like "Witch" or "Inquisitor." 

 

- Inquisitor (Cipher/Bleak Walker): Uses Black Flames at range for a powerful strike with added Corrode and Fire damage, as well as Paladin passives to help stay alive. Definitely the most thematically appropriate of the builds so far, considering the character type I'm considering playing with it. 

 

Right now, I'm heavily leaning towards the Inquisitor, followed by the Mindstalker, followed by the Witch, followed by the Transcendent, in terms of roleplay, but that's for another forum. I'd like to hear about how each of those would play, mechanically. 

Cipher in general doest get many great damage spells BUT...

 

disintegrate and https://pillarsofete...ctopsychic Echo ectopsychic echo in particular are quite good.

 

If you bring Maia as companion (ranger / rogue is quite good) You can ectopsychic echo her bird "ishiza" . Ishiza is immune to engagement and this allows you to move her around to really maximize the value you get out of every cast of ectopsychic echo. 

At 100 base damage in a line FoeAoe and fairly high pen its one of the better damage spells in the game.

 

Ciphers should always be multiclassed. Lots of good options there. Bring something that has good physical damage to quickly accumulate focus and maximize the value from your free +30% physical damage with soul whip (that you get at friggin level1 how op is that? :) )


Edited by Zelse, 11 July 2018 - 12:20 PM.


#7
Dorftek

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with unlimited aoe damage spell spam cipher can top the damage scoreboard, just saying. but their cc spells are so good you end up using cc spells instead of dps spells a lot which makes dps numbers go down compared to a rogue or zerker which pretty much dps 100% of the time.

I'd actually also go inquisitor (melee) bleakwalker/ascendant, stack deflection+borrowed instinct, get insane defenses and retaliate/riposte with an aoe weapon to insta max focus. than spam more aoe damage spells.


But... Arcane Blaster!

Also, I just added Mindstalker as an option (Originally I was very meh about the whole thing just because of the name, compared to things like 'Inquisitor', but I can't judge an entire multiclass on the name), so if that changes your mind, there it is.

I DO like the idea of a Bleak Walker/Inquisitor though, that's definitely my first choice. And by "Stack Deflection" do you actually mean "Stack Resolve"? Or is this another build where I dump Resolve in favor of something else?

Heh Arcane Blaster, what a piece of garbage it is :p

#8
Cyrus_Blackfeather

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with unlimited aoe damage spell spam cipher can top the damage scoreboard, just saying. but their cc spells are so good you end up using cc spells instead of dps spells a lot which makes dps numbers go down compared to a rogue or zerker which pretty much dps 100% of the time.

I'd actually also go inquisitor (melee) bleakwalker/ascendant, stack deflection+borrowed instinct, get insane defenses and retaliate/riposte with an aoe weapon to insta max focus. than spam more aoe damage spells.


But... Arcane Blaster!

Also, I just added Mindstalker as an option (Originally I was very meh about the whole thing just because of the name, compared to things like 'Inquisitor', but I can't judge an entire multiclass on the name), so if that changes your mind, there it is.

I DO like the idea of a Bleak Walker/Inquisitor though, that's definitely my first choice. And by "Stack Deflection" do you actually mean "Stack Resolve"? Or is this another build where I dump Resolve in favor of something else?

Heh Arcane Blaster, what a piece of garbage it is :p

 

 

Is it? It sounds so cool though. 



#9
Dorftek

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with unlimited aoe damage spell spam cipher can top the damage scoreboard, just saying. but their cc spells are so good you end up using cc spells instead of dps spells a lot which makes dps numbers go down compared to a rogue or zerker which pretty much dps 100% of the time.

I'd actually also go inquisitor (melee) bleakwalker/ascendant, stack deflection+borrowed instinct, get insane defenses and retaliate/riposte with an aoe weapon to insta max focus. than spam more aoe damage spells.

But... Arcane Blaster!

Also, I just added Mindstalker as an option (Originally I was very meh about the whole thing just because of the name, compared to things like 'Inquisitor', but I can't judge an entire multiclass on the name), so if that changes your mind, there it is.

I DO like the idea of a Bleak Walker/Inquisitor though, that's definitely my first choice. And by "Stack Deflection" do you actually mean "Stack Resolve"? Or is this another build where I dump Resolve in favor of something else?
Heh Arcane Blaster, what a piece of garbage it is :p

Is it? It sounds so cool though.

It is cool, so is the animancers blade. They are still garbage tho.

#10
1TTFFSSE

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Actually, animancer blade is ok now after buff given attack speed I think if you take attack speed into account a normal saber does something like 400-650 damage auto attacking per minute while animancer blade does 412-620 or thereabouts ... higher minimum but lower maximum. 



#11
Manveru123

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So you're saying that it is roughly equal to.. a standard, unenchanted Saber you loot when you start the game? :p



#12
1TTFFSSE

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So you're saying that it is roughly equal to.. a standard, unenchanted Saber you loot when you start the game? :p

yes kind of....you can enchant a saber to be legendary you know just like you can enchant animancer blade to be lagendary.

 

while a cool unique saber like say Grave Calling will have extra damage from an element + some effects, animancer's will do raw damage. 



#13
Verde

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Yeah Soulblade Mindstalker with high Mig, Per, crit perks, dual sabers or longswords (Min's Fortune, Duskfall, etc.), and Deception spells.




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