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[MECHANICS] priest/paladin disposition (aka does Obsidian even understand their own math?)

mechanics priest paladin disposition

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#21
Manveru123

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Hey aggresive diplomacy is a thing. Ask Padme.



#22
kilay

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Hey aggresive diplomacy is a thing. Ask Padme.

 

Ok but it's not the case of Frermàs mes Canc Suolias


Edited by kilay, 16 July 2018 - 02:39 AM.


#23
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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This is not the case. Please see the original post. Priest and pal companions still use dispositions and they register their disposition ranks based on what your dispositions are. (So if you are a kind wayfarer with a bleakwalker companion, your bleakwalker companion ain't going to be doing too well for disposition-scaling stuff. For role-playign purposes imagine that your bleakwalker companion really isn't happy with you being a goody two-shoes.)

 

 

 

I think by "companions" he means Pallegina and Xoti specifically. They do get a modifier to the base values from *somewhere* -- I've got a screenshot of Pallegina getting +8.9 deflection from Faith and Conviction, and the base value for F&C is +8 flat, so that .9 comes from somewhere, and the above code indicates it's not from dispositions. There appears to be a difference between story companions and hirelings in this regard.



#24
kilay

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This is not the case. Please see the original post. Priest and pal companions still use dispositions and they register their disposition ranks based on what your dispositions are. (So if you are a kind wayfarer with a bleakwalker companion, your bleakwalker companion ain't going to be doing too well for disposition-scaling stuff. For role-playign purposes imagine that your bleakwalker companion really isn't happy with you being a goody two-shoes.)

 

 

 

I think by "companions" he means Pallegina and Xoti specifically. They do get a modifier to the base values from *somewhere* -- I've got a screenshot of Pallegina getting +8.9 deflection from Faith and Conviction, and the base value for F&C is +8 flat, so that .9 comes from somewhere, and the above code indicates it's not from dispositions. There appears to be a difference between story companions and hirelings in this regard.

 

 

the 0.9 is from all the dipositions of Pallegina order (no dispositions) , if you change that (like i did)  also the bonus change (8.5 in the screen)

 

Pillars_of_Eternity_II_Deadfire_Screensh


Edited by kilay, 16 July 2018 - 04:04 AM.


#25
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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the 0.9 is from all the dipositions of Pallegina order (no dispositions) , if you change that (like i did)  also the bonus change (8.5 in the screen)

 

Pillars_of_Eternity_II_Deadfire_Screensh

 

 

So she gets +.9 from "no disposition" ? What's the .5 come from in your mod? Base value is flat 8.



#26
kilay

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the 0.9 is from all the dipositions of Pallegina order (no dispositions) , if you change that (like i did)  also the bonus change (8.5 in the screen)

 

Pillars_of_Eternity_II_Deadfire_Screensh

 

 

So she gets +.9 from "no disposition" ? What's the .5 come from in your mod? Base value is flat 8.

 

 

that's because the system haven't much sense. Basically with no bonus/malus due dispostions you start from a base of 0.9  (due the multiplicator)

 

so it's

Disposition Rank * (0.9)  >>> 1 * (0.9) = 0.9

 

the first value (disposition rank) could float due dispositions change (of course on vanilla pallegina doesn't float cuz she has no dispositions, so she has a base value of 1 and this never change in vanilla)

 

Btw that 0.9 (checked in statuseffect.gamedatabundle) is wrong , should be 2.25 according to the description and this system doesn't provide any kind of malus (just a reduced bonus).

"$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
                    "StatusEffectType": "AllDefense",
                    "OverrideDescriptionString": -1,
                    "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
                    "BaseValue": 8,
                    "DynamicValue": {
                        "Stat": "PaladinOrder",
                        "SkillDataID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
                        "ClassID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
                        "MultiplyBy": 0.9,
                        "Operator": "Add"
                    

So i think the flat base value should be cutted down to something like 1 or 2 and the bonus per rank disposition should be heavily increased so dispositions have more weight in the system


Edited by kilay, 16 July 2018 - 05:47 AM.

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#27
kilay

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ok after some test i think to have found a more balanced defense bonus range that fit with OBS words :)

 

With a Flat Base Value of 2 and a Multipler set to 8.8 you have a good range with different order. 
I have yet to see the max value that a paladin can reach , maybe thelee , you could help me to calculate it ? In few word which is the max disposition rank?

 

Different Paladin orders  in the next video with different bonus

 

EDIT

Forgot Deep Faith :banghead: i have also to tweak  it

 


Edited by kilay, 16 July 2018 - 06:39 AM.


#28
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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that's because the system haven't much sense. Basically with no bonus/malus due dispostions you start from a base of 0.9  (due the multiplicator)

 

so it's

Disposition Rank * (0.9)  >>> 1 * (0.9) = 0.9

 

the first value (disposition rank) could float due dispositions change (of course on vanilla pallegina doesn't float cuz she has no dispositions, so she has a base value of 1 and this never change in vanilla)

 

Btw that 0.9 (checked in statuseffect.gamedatabundle) is wrong , should be 2.25 according to the description and this system doesn't provide any kind of malus (just a reduced bonus).

 

 

AHhhhh, ok, thanks! That was really confusing me and leading me to doubt your analysis, since it seemed Pallegina was getting an un-accounted-for bonus from somewhere else. Now I understand. Stellar work. 


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#29
thelee

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This is not the case. Please see the original post. Priest and pal companions still use dispositions and they register their disposition ranks based on what your dispositions are. (So if you are a kind wayfarer with a bleakwalker companion, your bleakwalker companion ain't going to be doing too well for disposition-scaling stuff. For role-playign purposes imagine that your bleakwalker companion really isn't happy with you being a goody two-shoes.)

 
 
I think by "companions" he means Pallegina and Xoti specifically. They do get a modifier to the base values from *somewhere* -- I've got a screenshot of Pallegina getting +8.9 deflection from Faith and Conviction, and the base value for F&C is +8 flat, so that .9 comes from somewhere, and the above code indicates it's not from dispositions. There appears to be a difference between story companions and hirelings in this regard.

Man, this was all in the OP :/

8 base + .9 neutral disposition bonus

#30
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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Man, this was all in the OP :/

8 base + .9 neutral disposition bonus

 

 

 

What I think was confusing me was the difference between *companion* and *hireling* dispositions. Even if it's a technical difference only because Pallegina *is* using your personal dispositions, it's just that none of them are coded as relevant for her.

 

Net result, *companions* get the default bonus (I presume it's also +.9 for Xoti?) whereas hirelings (who would have coded dispositions like the PC) would use the PC's dispositions?


Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy, 16 July 2018 - 11:46 AM.


#31
kilay

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Man, this was all in the OP :/

8 base + .9 neutral disposition bonus

 

 

 

What I think was confusing me was the difference between *companion* and *hireling* dispositions. Even if it's a technical difference only because Pallegina *is* using your personal dispositions, it's just that none of them are coded as relevant for her.

 

Net result, *companions* get the default bonus (I presume it's also +.9 for Xoti?) whereas hirelings (who would have coded dispositions like the PC) would use the PC's dispositions?

 

 

Xoti isn't a paladin so she can't use Paladin abilities, Priest have a different system (already explained in OP)


Edited by kilay, 16 July 2018 - 12:07 PM.


#32
kilay

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Hope that someone involved in the discussion like it

 

https://forums.obsid...mods/?p=2073746







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