Subclass balance + Companion Subclasses for 1.x ?

[Falk Schütze]

Hello all,

 

I have been restarting / rerolling characters since the game started (175 hours) and decided to take a brake. Currently I cannot choose a single class that Im sure of completing the game with. I want to play as a Ranger or Caster (Wizard / Druid / Chanter / Cipher) but all of these classes are very unbalanced in what their subclasses offer.

 

 

1. Wizard + Druid (aka: I can only cast two times per encounter) ...

 

The only Wizard choice for me is a generalist Wizard. All Wizard subclasses suck because they remove one opposing school but also all other spell schools from viable spell selections, leaving these 'ultra-specialists' with only a few good spells. There is a small Power Level bonus but there are several items sport a much better Power Level bonus (like these: https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Firethrower%27s_Gloves).

 

Wizards, as well as Druids, have a very low amount of casts per level. In long fights, especially while boarding enemy ships, they run out of casts and only can use their weapons for a very long time, which kills all the immersion for me. Chanters and Ciphers have infinite casts and remain viable for all battles, so why do Wizards and Druids not have a method of regaining some of their casts during battle or have more casts to begin with? And no, I dont mean the OP abilities that grant infinite casts / resources. These should be nerfed or outright removed from the game.

 

The Druid subclass Im most interested was the Fury subclass until I got a certain companion that has access to beautiful-to-look-at Frost and Water Foe-Only spells. In my opinion, this companion-only subclass should be reserved to Amaua, but should be a selectable class choice for the player.

 

 

 

2. ... vs Chanter + Cipher (aka: I have infinite casts per encounter)

 

The Chanter subclasses are somewhat confusing to me. I would prefer the Beckoner but that subclasses summoning potential has been nerfed with +1 Summon Invocation cost (was -1) and now is much worse than the Troubadour subclass, supposedly focused at Chanting and not (summon) Invocations. The Beckoners BASE summon duration is reduced by 33% (affecting Intelligence bonuses as well), their summon health is reduced by 75% (and more). The doubled summon number does not make this subclass viable, as additionally, the Troubadour can cast all other Invocations twice as fast as well, thanks to Brisk Recitation.

 

The Cipher would be my last Caster option. The Beguiler subclass seems to be the only viable subclass to me, gaining focus while casting. There are some good low level Deception spells availiable but looking at the ability tree shows the higher level spells are lacking, both in quantity (only 1x Deception per level) and quality (single target only). Adding to that, there is a high level ability that increases AoE for spells, but there are so few AoE spells to begin with. Also, not a single Deception spell damages enemies and they are therefore somehwhat boring to look at.

 

 

3. Rangers suck (ver 2.0)

 

What could be more annoying that the Rangers and Animal Companions that suck'd in PoE 1 ? Of course, they suck in PoE 2 as well ! Each Animal Companion is basically dead at the beginning of all encounters and the Ranger is therefore permanently affected with Bonded Grief (-2 Might / Resolve, -10 Accuracy). You have to play as a Ghost Heart subclass in order to not have this permanent penalty.

 

Im interested in playing a Sharpshooter but like the Beckoner (Chanter), the Sharpshooter is penalized in its core role. A Fighter is much better at 'sharpshooting', with weapon specialization, armor recovery bonus and the potential bonus from the Devoted subclass. A Ghost Heart is much better than a Sharpshooter at 'sharpshooting' as well.

 

Compared to the Ghost Heart, the Sharpshooter receives:

- 6% (ranged) weapon Damage from Bonded Grief (-2 Might)

- 10 (ranged) weapon Accuracy from Bonded Grief

- 12 (ranged) weapon Deflection from Bonded Grief (-2 Resolve) and subclass

+10% (ranged) weapon recovery speed penalty from subclass > Yes, the Sharpshooter shoots slower than E.g. a Wizard !!!!

 

This is the so-called bonus that Sharpshooters receive:

15% of the Hits convert to Crits with ranged weapons against ≥ 4m targets (crits do 25% more damage and 50% more penetration)

 

On top of that, another companion has a subclass that is in my opinion the only viable subclass availiable for Rangers. Increased weapon range, the most powerful Animal Companion availiable (Source: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1384851536)and there are many NPCs encountered in the world that also have the Gunhawk subclass and sport a beautiful cream colored hawk variant as compared to Ishiza (Maias hawk).

 

This subclass has no penalties and, while I think it should be reserved to Rauatai origins, should be made availiable for all players as a class choice.

 

 

 

My conclusion is that I cant play the game until the developer communicates (there are currently no Beta Patch Notes) and shows a direction that balancing will take for these classes (and all other), if at all, and whether companion subclasses are made availiable to the player. Patch 1.1 was confusing at best (to me) and in my opinion only increased the balancing issues for these classes.

[Shadenuat]

I have been restarting / rerolling characters since the game started (175 hours)

My conclusion is that I cant play the game

 

pffffhhhhh

 

wait I wanna check this person other posts

here is one https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/101989-11-rip-beckoners/page-3?do=findComment&comment=2054986

[Wormerine]

Most of my experiences with Deadfire are pre 1.1 as I just started another playthrough but here are mythoughts anyway:

 

1. I do somewhat agree about wizard subclasses. They feel very situational and better fitted to a very specific multiclass combos, rather than pure wizards. DPS focused single class wizard with evocations seems like it could be legit but didnt try it. That said, I feel that the generic wizard offers enough flexibility as it can fill many roles depending on what spells you pick. So while subclasses can be a bit too niche, I don't think it hurts the class too much overall. 2 spells per encounter feel good so far - judging mostly by my current PotD playthrough. I didn't spend much time with druids - just recruited Takehu and planning on giving him some more love this time around.

 

2. Beckoners were OP to the point of not being fun so I welcome the nerf, though I didn't give it a try yet myself. In PoE1 I played as cipher ascendant and it was hilariously broken. Whenever it is still the case with some spell nerfs and overall rise in difficulty remains to be seen. 

 

3. I remember rangers to performing fairly well, but I just found them boring to play. Seperating skill trees into pet and character means ending with two unappealing characters. I just don't enjoy playing them. Maia was the only companion I allowed to run with AI scripts. 

[Loren Tyr]

While I think the Sharpshooter could do with some more pronounced bonuses, you make it sound as if the animal companions die the instant combat starts. If yours are dying that quickly, I would suggest that you're probably using them wrong. 

[KDubya]

Sounds like a 'Git Gud" situation.

 

The debuff from bonded grief is minor for having a free replaceable attack pet that never needs to rest nor gets injuries. It usually doesn't die anyway on PotD. My thought is if the pet is still alive at the end of the fight I did something wrong

 

At low levels casters run out of spells but once you get to the mid levels you'll have 10+ casts per fight which is plenty. Wizards and Druids can also cast their best spells right away, even as an alpha strike while a Cipher needs to build focus before they can cast and then needs to build more focus before they can cast another. Ciphers look good in comparison at low level but at mid level and beyond they get left behind by the casters as they reach their stride.

[Falk Schütze]

Sounds like a 'Git Gud" situation.

 

The debuff from bonded grief is minor for having a free replaceable attack pet that never needs to rest nor gets injuries. It usually doesn't die anyway on PotD. My thought is if the pet is still alive at the end of the fight I did something wrong

 

At low levels casters run out of spells but once you get to the mid levels you'll have 10+ casts per fight which is plenty. Wizards and Druids can also cast their best spells right away, even as an alpha strike while a Cipher needs to build focus before they can cast and then needs to build more focus before they can cast another. Ciphers look good in comparison at low level but at mid level and beyond they get left behind by the casters as they reach their stride.

 

A -10 Accuracy debuff is not minor. The availiable animal companions are all just too fragile. Maias hawk can break engagement to fall back if needed, so engagement immunity for all pets would help.

 

I agree that Wizards and Druids get more useful in later levels but in the beginning they cannot compete with Chanters or Ciphers. More casts per encounter for lower level spells would help, but they currently do not progress past 2x.

 

Regarding Ciphers: While they need time to accumulate Focus, they can cast some spells from the beginning. Especially the lower levels have a broad selection of useful spells for Ciphers and these remain viable until the end of combat and until the end of the game. The Cipher is lacking high level AoE spells.

 

While I think the Sharpshooter could do with some more pronounced bonuses, you make it sound as if the animal companions die the instant combat starts. If yours are dying that quickly, I would suggest that you're probably using them wrong. 

 

That is sadly happening for my Animal Companion all of the times, especially in boarding battles where the player starts out directly in front of all the enemies and both the Ranger and his Animal Companion take all the hits from enemy archers. That also happens to caster main characters who usually die seconds after the battle starts.

[Loren Tyr]

 

While I think the Sharpshooter could do with some more pronounced bonuses, you make it sound as if the animal companions die the instant combat starts. If yours are dying that quickly, I would suggest that you're probably using them wrong. 

 

That is sadly happening for my Animal Companion all of the times, especially in boarding battles where the player starts out directly in front of all the enemies and both the Ranger and his Animal Companion take all the hits from enemy archers. That also happens to caster main characters who usually die seconds after the battle starts.

 

 

Well yeah, the annoying positioning in boarding situations and map transition ambushes and such is definitely an issue that needs to get fixed. That's nothing particular to Animal Companions though, as you say this is a problem for any squishy main character (and makes no sense at all, it's not as if the character can't see a frickin' boarding attack coming and, you know, move to the other side of the boat *sigh*). Can't really hold that against the Ranger / Sharpshooter class specifically.