Swift Fury + Long Pain Wanderer?

[Killabkilled]

Swift Flurry with blunderbusses got justifiably nerfed, but I still think it'd be cool to make a Wanderer (Sharpshooter/Nazpalca) built around using the Long Pain and Swift Flurry together (assuming they still do work together), and getting as many crit-increasing abilities as possible from the Ranger side.

 

Problem is, the Long Pain Fists that get summoned are strange: they're melee, and yet they're ranged.  They're weapons, and yet they're unarmed.  I'm having a hard time figuring out which of the Ranger abilities do/don't work with them.  Does anybody know about any of the following?

• Monastic Unarmed Training
  
• Marksman
  
• 2-Handed Style
  
• Driving Flight
  
• Wounding Shot/Accurate Wounding Shot
  
• Concussive Shot/Concussive Tranquilizer
  

[Boeroer]

You can't pick monastic unarmed tr. as a monk.

 

Two Weapon Style applies (I assume you meant that and not 2-handed?).

 

Driving Flight worked in beta. Didn't test post release though.

 

The rest I don't know. I think I remember a statement from another thread a few days ago where somebody said that Swift Flurry does not work with the Long Paon, but I might be mistaken. It does not work with Carnage, maybe that's a hint. It would be best if you would open the console and test this. I would do it myself and report to you but I'm on vacation and left my computer at home as my wife ordered.

[Kaylon]

Marksman works only if >4m from the target and I think Long Pain has 5m range so it should work only if you stay at max range.

Wounding/Concussive Shot work with both melee/ranged and should work without problem with Long Pain.

I think Long Pain is considered both melee and ranged.

[Raven Darkholme]

Long pain does not work with a lot of melee abilities, including the monks own ennervating blows, so I would assume it does not work with Swift Flurry, but does work with Driving Flight.

 

edit. haven't tested either tho.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Raven Darkholme

[Boeroer]

@Kaylon: Then Carnage should work and it doesn't.

 

If I remember correctly you also don't get engagement when in melee range.

 

Good point about range (Marksman).

 

I think it's considered ranged but has an exception so that certain melee monk abilities are allowed to execute.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Boeroer

[spyjine]

How about Heartbeat Drumming? If Long Pain can trigger HD and Driving Flight, there will be some funny synergy.

[Boeroer]

Heartbeat Drumming is only melee, am I right?

 

If not then it's surely a good combo.

[Lokithecat]

Heartbeat is only melee, but Long Pain seems to really has some identity crisis going on. 

 

If it were somehow flagged to work with everything that is melee, and everything that is ranged, it would be a great ability / build idea...  and then it would get nerfed.

[Boeroer]

I guess in this case we have to do excessive testing - like I did with the Long Pain in PoE which didn't behave very consistently (see With Doctor build in the PoE char build subforum).

[Raven Darkholme]

Even in Poe 1 Long Pain didn't work with the melee only abilities of the monk.

(ennervating blows and the burn damage lash)

Also Poe 1 Long Pain was much better than deadfire, it's almost not worth damage wise in deadfire at max level it does like 2 damage more than normal fists, so it's mostly there for the ranged aspect.

[Killabkilled]

Also Poe 1 Long Pain was much better than deadfire, it's almost not worth damage wise in deadfire at max level it does like 2 damage more than normal fists, so it's mostly there for the ranged aspect.

 

Yeah, I'm starting to see that as badass as it would be, building a whole character around this, spending so many abilities on getting extra crits, but then not getting the Long Pain until Level 13, and not getting Instruments of Pain until Level 18, with even then their damage being lackluster, might not be worth it.  For ranged damage output over the course of the full game, it might be better just to go with a Frostseeker-wielding single-classed Ranger.  Too bad.

[Boeroer]

That's not entirely correct. In PoE it did work with melee only abilities - for example Force of Anguish and Torment's Reach which are strictly melee there. Even with Knock Down (via girdle).

 

I guess if you'd say "passive" melee abilities you'd be right.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

That's not entirely correct. In PoE it did work with melee only abilities - for example Force of Anguish and Torment's Reach which are strictly melee there. Even with Knock Down (via girdle).

 

I guess if you'd say "passive" melee abilities you'd be right.

Hm yeah I did not know those are melee only, thanks for clarifying.

[hansvedic]

My testing suggests that The Long Pain is considered only a ranged weapon unless you get the "Instruments of Pain" upgrade, at which point it is ONLY a melee weapon. Kind of sad that upgrading TLP on a Wanderer would result in a loss of Driving Flight...

EDIT1: Basically, when I tested this, none of the melee abilities of the Monk, such as Force of Anguish, Torment's Reach, etc. worked with the ranged version of The Long Pain, but they did work once the upgrade "Instruments of Pain" was chosen, at which point ranged upgrades such as Driving Flight stopped working.

 

EDIT2: Sorry to necro this thread; I just wanted to share some observations.

Edited July 27, 2018 by hansvedic

[Boeroer]

That's because all that "Instruments of Pain" does is to increase your melee weapon's range by 500%, nothing more. It works wonderfully well with reach weapons and is especially beautiful with Citzal's Spirit Lance (because you can then use Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming in combination with Stunning Surge at range AND in an AoE). Because +500% weapons range is more impressive when your weapon range already is 1.8 meters and not just 1.

 

And what's one players downside (doesn't work with Driving Flight) is another's upside (monk's and other classes' "melee only" abilites work with Instruments of Pain).

Edited July 27, 2018 by Boeroer

[hansvedic]

That's because all that "Instruments of Pain" does is to increase your melee weapon's range by 500%, nothing more. It works wonderfully well with reach weapons and is especially beautiful with Citzal's Spirit Lance (because you can then use Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming in combination with Stunning Surge at range AND in an AoE). Because +500% weapons range is more impressive when your weapon range already is 1.8 meters and not just 1.

 

And what's one players downside (doesn't work with Driving Flight) is another's upside (monk's and other classes' "melee only" abilites work with Instruments of Pain).

 

I just wanted to point out the results of my testing. I'm sorry if my post came off as an attack.

[Boeroer]

Urm... same for me. I didn't take it as an attack. Just wanted to clarify why The Long Pain & Instruments do behave like that. Did I sound brusquely? That was my inner German I guess. He was screaming ACHTUNG from within.

[hansvedic]

Urm... same for me. I didn't take it as an attack. Just wanted to clarify why The Long Pain & Instruments do behave like that. Did I sound brusquely? That was my inner German I guess. He was screaming ACHTUNG from within.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure, but decided to err on the side of caution. 

 

That being said, I do hope they someday make The Long Pain back like it was in PoE1; could you imagine Driving Flight + Torment's Reach w/ TLP?

[Boeroer]

Yeees - and maybe the designers could as well.