Cipher or Cipher/?

[Aotrs Commander]

As I have elected to wait until the companion relationship gains are fixed, I figure I will probably restart (unless the fix is made retroactive, whihc I suspect would be difficult.) In the meantime, then, if I do that, what would be the best option for my primary, who is a cypher?

 

First game, I played me as cipher with blunderbuss, and almost exclusively used Amplified Wave,  Mind Blades, Mental Binding and occasionally Soul Shock. I prefer doing the explodey-things (obivously - I practially used the same build with GM and spent the comabst lauching as I double-tapped amplified wave.)

 

I very much ummed and ah'd about being a single class cypher this time around, but decided I would try and went with Ascendant. I was pretty underwhelmed by the upper levels of cipher, but the top-level cipher damage power looked a bit nifty, so I went with single class.

 

But, as I have a pause (which I will probably will with Stellaris now!) and other people who play stuff much faster than me can probably give me a sensible answer as to whether it is really worth waiting for or whether there is something else that would help me instead.

 

My nominal party (as is, and will again) is Eder (swashbuckler, tenatively Riposte), Aloth (pure wizard), Xoti (currently monk/priest - since priest now seems pretty underwhelming) and nominally Pallegina. That last one is a bit debatable, since mechanically, paladin/chanter seems like a good one and has some continuity in that She Was There Last Time (though I barely used her, my previous team being Eder, Aloth, Durance, Sagani and Kano/GM)... But I had her for barely five minutes before she was grating on my nerves[1]. (But so did Durance, honestly, but his pay-out made it all worthwhile!) So i'm considering whether Maia would be a perhaps less mechanically useful, but less irritating companion.

 

 

So, principally, I want to be exploding things with cipher powers, and shooting in between. So, is single-class cipher best for what I want to do, or is there another class that synergises well (Wizard? Ranger?) that's worth delaying my favorite toys and passing on VIII/IX cipher powers for?

 

 

[1]Is it just me, or have all paladin companions in IE/IE-sucessor games (that were actually allowed to be paladins, Mazzy) been serious stick-up-butts...?



 

[evilcat]

BleakWaker?

If you run Pallagina you need use different aura, or use teheku/other companion.

The FoD Strike synergize well with cipher, focus up very fast.

Regaining Zeal on kill is nice, and you could use zeal on FoD which loads Focus. Perpetum Mobile.

Paladin part of points dedicate to support and defenses which may be good or not, depending if you want full dps.

 

Rogue (nosubclass)

You need some sneaky way for sneak attacks, like Eder riposte. Or your own eyestrikes/phantom foes.

Use finishing blows to load up. 

 

Skald

Ila+Fyr, and using stuff lke Shield Crasher and Paralyze.

 

Is it worth?

On Ascendant not really, since you want Aplified Wave asap.

Edited May 22, 2018 by evilcat

[Laisyndre]

Following this too. I’ve been trying to settle on a build for my ranged Cipher from PoE1 as well.

 

Is ranged Mindstalker (Cipher/Rogue) significantly better than Seer (Cipher/Ranger)? I see a lot of mentions of the former, but not the latter.

[1TTFFSSE]

if you give up going single class cipher ascendant with time parasite shenanigans etc you should be giving it up for a multi-class combo which is equally or near equally great, and at the moment the only things which are awesome in multi-class cipher is something like soulblade soul-annihilation cleave synergy with the fighter cleave stance, or aoe effect weapons like whispers of the endless paths.  

[Clerith]

 

So, principally, I want to be exploding things with cipher powers, and shooting in between. So, is single-class cipher best for what I want to do, or is there another class that synergises well (Wizard? Ranger?) that's worth delaying my favorite toys and passing on VIII/IX cipher powers for?

 

You want single class Cipher, and Ascendant subclass. You can shoot with bow or guns and even do some weapon set swapping with a bunch of loaded guns, then when you get to max focus, you unleash your powers and go insane for a good amount of time.

 

Cipher right now is basically Ascendant for actually casting Cipher spells or Soul Blade for multiclassing with martial classes.

[Braven]

When I was thinking about a cipher build, I came to this conclusion.  The best spell they have is tier 1 Whispers of Treason and I imagine it stays insane all game long.  It is super cheap to cast, being tier one, and benefits a ton from power levels for the same reason, and with high INT and critical hits you can have the duration basically last to the end of any fight.  Not only have you taken an enemy completely out of the fight, but they actually help you kill the others and distract your enemies; it is way better than one-hit assassination powers that everyone likes to cry OP over, and those aren't available until late game while you have this power before you even leave your ship in the tutorial.

 

You can also freely attack your charmed "friends" and they don't seem to mind at all.  Unlike the first game, they don't turn on you when all non-charmed enemies are gone.  The only bad thing I have noticed is that you don't gain focus for attacking charmed enemies, except oddly for the last hit that kills them, so you should save the charmed ones for last or maybe use something heavy hitting on them in order to gain focus.  Though, I guess at the point you are killing off the charmed enemies, you don't really need focus anymore.

 

Early on, I don't think I would bother becoming Ascendant; just charm and kill, since the damage spells are not really worth casting yet and it is better to charm sooner rather than waiting for your focus gauge to max out.  Ascendants gain focus faster than others so it is still beneficial to be one.  Beguiler is an option too, but it is more fiddly to make sure enemies are always afflicted properly and you miss out on the late game fun of nuking everything for zero power.  Speaking of nuking for zero power, ciphers benefit a lot from anything that reduces spell casting time.

 

---

 

So, here are the main takeaways:

1)  Whispers of Treason is crazy powerful for tier one; how do we make it better?

2)  Later on when you have item synergies and higher level powers, going Ascendant turns you into a killing machine that nearly instantly gibs everything.

 

Neither of these require a pure cipher (the best damage spells will still be learned eventually), so you might as well multi-class and you will still be super powerful right from level 1 until the end of the game.  I can see two classes that can help make the cipher even better:  Rogue and Ranger.

 

Ranger has lots of instant ways to massively boost accuracy.  This will allow you to more reliably not miss with Whispers of Treason as well as all your other powers since they all have an attack roll.  Remember, critical hits increase duration by 50% and grazes reduce it by 50% so accuracy is really important.  As a bonus, you can also get a pet to act as a body guard, distracting enemies for a few seconds while you cast your charm spells.  This allows you to lower your defenses if you wish and pump up your offensive stats to generate focus faster.

 

Rogue has the ability to generate tons of focus at the start of battle with a big alpha strike (backstab).  This can help you quickly ascend, or provide you plenty of starting focus in order to cast your crowd control.  If you get in trouble, you can also use invisibility or escape to get away from enemies.  Assassin is good for the alpha strikes and street fighter is good for the 50% recovery reduction which also help you spam powers while ascended.  If street fighter, you are pretty much forced to use a blunderbuss w/modal since it grants flanked status needed to activate the StreetFighter passive; you certainly don't want to rely on being bloodied or surrounded.  Blunderbuss however has a pretty short range, so it is a more risky, and it reduces your defenses making you even weaker if ever attacked.

 

Personally, i like ranger the best because it is safer and more fun to play.  Your animal companion keeps you safe so you can fire guns and your accuracy makes all of your power much more effective.  Though you miss out on the biggest alpha strike, focus generation seems better in this game so it doesn't take long to build up focus and with passives like gunner and the one that grants you an extra hit with ranged weapons, your DPS will be quite high.  It is a real bummer missing with a cipher power and wasting all the focus so I think having something to increase accuracy a lot makes the class more fun.  You can get something like 25 extra accuracy with ranger instantly at the start of combat, passively.  That accuracy also helps your spells and it doesn't even cost power resources, so you can still heal your pet or use wounding shot.

 

One final note:  While you mostly want to stay back with a gun as a cipher so you can focus your synergies on offensive for focus generation, I would also keep a club handy and learn the weapon proficiency.  Its special modal massively reduces a targets will.  For enemies with really high will (bosses), you can hit them first with the club before casting your powers (which mostly target will).  Also keep a morning star handy if you like to use fortitude attacks.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Braven

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

The build I've basically settled on for a single-class Ascendant.

 

 

1) high might/int/per, con to 7, resolve to 5

 

2) take antipathetic field (good foe beam power) at first level and Arms Bearer talent at 2nd

 

3) arquebus, pistols/blunderbuss, quarterstaff in the final slot

 

4) open with gun salvo and then close with the quarterstaff

 

5) focus on metaphysics skill (to use with the good unique quarterstaff)

 

 

Even that's probably nonoptimal though and might be better with bows instead of guns.

 

For powers, take as many passives as you feel comfortable doing. Because you'll be only casting while Ascended, focus cost isn't a consideration, just utility (this is why you skip whisper of treason, since you'll be taking othre charms at higher levels). Pain Block and Body Attunement are your must picks; ringleader and/or puppet master are very good; disintegrate, amp wave, time parasite. 

 

Having a source of crushing damage is a necessity in this game, and the quarterstaff does great DPS, lets you engage "at range" and has a useful defensive modal. Club is another excellent choice but there's only one good club and it doesn't compare to the two good quarterstaffs, and you need damage, so I generally prefer to let some other party member club-modal my targets for me. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy