Adraeus

What's "DNA"? Care to provide a link?

I just got home and I'm really not in the mood to post anything extensive so I'll keep this brief and constrained to a list format. 1. "If desktop computer games could not be patched..." is purely hypothetical. Be realistic. (Again, no offense intended.) 2. There's more factors involved in influencing the sales data than just patchability. For instance, console games and associated systems are physically portable where lugging around a desktop computer is impractical. Consoles, which are still computers, are convenient for consumers and developers. Desktop computers, however, can be extensively customized, have a better image, and again, allow for further customization of hardware and software via software. Desktop computers are also useful for other purposes; thus, desktop computers are less expensive than consoles from a cost-of-value perspective and yield greater benefits to the end-user. (I understand that newer console systems are becoming more adaptable to user intent; however, I think the trend towards console-to-PC software integration will eventually lead to the downfall of the console system. 3. I bought KotOR 2 the second day from release only because I experienced no problems with KotOR 1 and enjoyed the experience. I was dismayed by the demonstrable incompetence of the poorly managed QA team. 4. Obscene profits? The cost-of-development, the cost-of-production and the cost-of-distribution for videogames are obscene when compared to the ROI of most videogames. Believe it or not, $49.99 for a new videogame is a fair and reasonable price based on manufacturing costs. However, the problem is that if the videogame's quality is poor, whether technical or creative, the market's perceived value of the product will decline. Us capitalists often say, "a fair price is that which a buyer is willing to pay." That statement only refers to fairness in value versus pricing though. By the way, the film industry's sales exceed U.S. entertainment software sales by 10-30 times the entertainment software's $7-8 billion (2003/2004). That's obscene. There's more investment risk with videogames than with films. (Remember, the minimum operating cost per year for a commercial videogames developer is around $1 million whereas an award-winning independent movie can be made for less than $200,000.) 5. There are standards in quality assurance. Look up ISO 9000. Like most standards though, certification is optional. 6. I'm Libertarian... so you know where I stand on government-monitored videogames production. The U.S. government can barely monitor its own cashflow considering it is capable of "losing" $9 billion and a few more billion dollars per year here and there. When the U.S. government initiates housing projects, the results are often poor and hazardous. I don't think it's wise to promote governmental project management of videogames development. The results would be worse than KotOR 2's failures...

I'd rather have an apology and a patch.

How does holding an opinion make me "what? Superior?" I think you read too much into my comments. I meant no offense and I don't appreciate the tone of your reply. Videogames, whether for consoles or desktop computers, have standards which are influenced by buyer behavior, market research, quality assurance practices, company mission statements, other internal documentation, and lots of money. What doesn't have standards are desktop computers. With consoles, you can be reasonably certain that every unmodified console will have the same hardware. That's because consoles are mass produced for pennies per and sold at 800-2000% their manufacturing costs. Desktop computers, however, may vary regardless of shabby attempts at desktop computer standardization via Dell, IBM, Alienware, etc. Console game development is facilitated due to the lack of component variance. Still, that didn't help KotOR 2 because the publisher, LucasArts, pushed the game out too soon in order to capitalize on a dual platform release. Rremember that LucasArts has been and is poorly managed in this way. For instance, they released Star Wars Galaxies just after the alpha spiral. With KotOR 2's 60-man QA team, which is managed by the publisher (not the developer), they failed to stablize and optimize the software. Moreover, Obsidian was given the unpatched KotOR source code to work with so many old problems from the initial release of KotOR reared their ugly heads. I disagree with both your claims that PC games have no standards and that all games do not work well. I've played every major new release since 1995, and many of which are extremely stable, playable and fun. It's quite melodramatic to promise yourself things like, "I will never buy a PC video game again." (Not that it was you who said that...) If you have consistent problems with a game which renders the game intolerable, then remember that games are products too, and products have warranties. Return the game according to the instructions in the Limited Warranty section of the game manual: "LucasArts warrants to the original consumer purchaser only that the media furnished in this Software will be free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use for a period of ninety (90) days from date of purchase (as evidenced by your receipt)."

Latest Catalyst set works for me.

I think most people who have problems with most PC games are simply not oriented towards optimizing their computers out of the default state. If you bought a pre-packaged computer, I have no sympathy for you. If you want maximum performance for less cost, build your own custom computer. It's common sense. Keep your system updated. Make sure you don't have any programs running that directly interface with your display too (e.g. WindowBlinds). In fact, uninstall it! You don't need it! It hurts display performance. If you want a "cool" interface, buy a Mac. Also, optimize your operating system. If you're running Windows XP goto: Start | Settings | Control Panel | System | Advanced | (Performance) Settings | Click Adjust for best performance. Disable Active Desktop. Remove any backgrounds. Download TweakUI (Powertoys) and optimize further. Change your Windows Theme to Windows Classic, turn off all Effects, and change your Windows and buttons to Windows Classic style. Other tips: Disable antivirus software. Download and use Ad-Aware. Don't run Internet Explorer ever again... use Firefox.. Change processor scheduling from Programs to Background Services. Tweak your virtual memory settings. Use EndItAll to shutdown background processes for maximum allotment of system resources. There are tons of sites that will hold your hand and walk you through the process step-by-step.

For pure performance settings, see here.

If supported cards have a number of stability issues attached to them, what makes you think there's a way to get stable operation of KotOR 2 with unsupported cards?

1. Fix the stability bugs. 2. Fix the campaign/quest bugs. 3. Allow display of the console. 4. Enhance item management with better sorting. 5. Re-add the Bounty Hunter class which was "CUT!!!" according to KT. 6. Use higher quality music. 7. Use higher quality cinematics. 8. ...and so on.

I meant to post this poll in another forum. Anyway... Those who voted "no", were you just being silly or does KotOR 2 truly work perfectly for you?

Really, JamieKirby? These tweaks made a huge difference in terms of stability and playability for me. I don't think you should issue blanket claims like "this makes little difference." There are so many PC hardware configurations out there. I doubt LucasArts tested them all and I doubt you know them all. Better safe than sorry, swaaye. The worst you'll lose is time spent using Driver Cleaner to be certain you have a clean install of the Catalyst software.

Aside from the occasional crash and/or freeze, I've managed to get KotOR 2 to work nearly as well as KotOR. (KotOR worked perfectly for me with bare settings.) One of the few places that lags for me is the first location you travel to and that's most likely due to the poor level design and problems with the video performance when rendering trees and really long halls. If Fog of War existed in this game, I think many of the video performance issues would be resolved. ATI Catalyst Installation Procedure 1. Download the latest Catalyst software individually. DO NOT download the entire archive. You can find the individual files in the dialup users section of the appropriate driver download page on ATI's website. 2. Uninstall the display driver, and CCC (or Control Panel.) 3. Reboot to Safe Mode. (You can press/hold F8 before the black Windows loading screen to access the boot menu.) 4. Use Driver (CAB) Cleaner to clean SP1.cab, SP2.cab, and/or driver.cab in order to prevent Windows from reinstalling older drivers. 5. Use Driver Cleaner to remove leftover files. Delete the \ATI\ directory. 6. Use "regedit" to delete registry entries related to 'ATI Technologies'. 7. After ascertaining the nonexistence of any previous ATI driver versions, normal reboot Windows. 8. Install WDM drivers (if needed), then display drivers, then CCC (or Control Panel.) Reboot as needed. 9. You should now have a stable Catalyst install. Download Driver Cleaner Performance Tips For the record, I don't have any problems with Dantooine. If you do, you may have Grass enabled, which degrades performance unless your system surpasses the system requirements by a multiple of two or more. Grass degrades performance in Neverwinter Nights too. If your system meets the minimum requirements for the game, try these settings. Resolution: 800x600 Refresh Rate: Maximum Texture Pack: Low Enable Hardware Mouse Enable Vsync Disable EAX Disable Emitters Disable Frame Buffer Disable Grass Disable Shadows Disable Soft Shadows Disable Anisotropy Disable Antialiasing Disable Vertex Buffer Objects Performance Settings (swkotor2.ini) Add/delete entries per line as appropriate. [sound Options] ; Possible performance tweak Number 3D Voices=16 Number 2D Voices=24 [Graphics Options] AllowSoftShadows=0 Anisotropy=0 Anti Aliasing=0 Disable Vertex Buffer Objects=1 Emitters=0 Frame Buffer=0 Grass=0 Shadows=0 Soft Shadows=0 Texture Quality=0 V-Sync=1

Who's in the majority: players who experience technical problems or those with no problems whatsoever? If you've experienced any technical problems with KotOR 2, vote yes. If you've experienced perfect operation of KotOR 2, vote no. Please be honest.

I wouldn't be too quick to judge Obsidian. There are many factors which you seem to be ignoring such as schedules, publisher deadlines, funding, management, etc. We don't know what happened and perhaps we never will. Regardless, it's not important to us. (Jeez! Aren't you trained in the Force!? *sigh*) It will be Obsidian who releases further updates and it will be LucasArts who commands them to do so. Game development is a business and it is treated as such. Would you tell your boss "no" if he ordered you to finish an ad concept? You'd be fired. The game industry is rough. If you don't do things right, you have no chance of staying in. "Right" doesn't mean shipping a perfect product. The product merely has to work and be successful, and technically KotOR2 does work despite its many flaws and it will probably be successful due to the license. By the way, I could barely classify any id Software "game" an actual game since most of their latest productions seem to be more like 3D engine showcase applications. After all, 3D revolution is what Carmack is famous for... not developing great games. One more thing... I think it's funny when a few people claim they won't buy any future products from some company. While at some level, business development may care; that fact is, a few extremists are unlikely to cause an upset in Obsidian's lifecycle. Excuse me if I've offended anyone. I've been talking to Kreia too much.

Note that... 1 = On 0 = Off Just in case someone was wondering.

The fact that the publisher managed and supplied the 60-man Quality Assurance team, and released an extremely faulty product is indicative that the blame rests with the publishers. You can blame the developer if you don't assume good faith though. Blaming the developer is what those who are ignorant of the game development industry do. Just remember: LucasArts has a tendency to release games at the wrong time to meet deadlines, but that's true of most publishers... especially JoWooD. The only exception to the "rule" is Blizzard Entertainment, which is why most industry folk idolize Blizzard.

I'm using the same setup (my general gaming computer) with KotOR2 that I did for KotOR. With KotOR, I had zero problems. Yes, that's right: zero problems. KotOR worked and works perfectly; however, KotOR2 does not. AMD Athlon 1Ghz ATI Radeon 8500 1GB SDRAM VIA VT8363 KT133/A (KT7A-RAID)

Hrm, I'm a professional musician with a pro PC recording system. I have an M-Audio OmniStudio/Delta 66 setup among other things. Honestly, I have no qualms with the music/sound other than the stuttering which occurs due to hardware/software compatibility issues.