Akshara

I think the DS in TSL is far superior than it was in Kotor. In Kotor, one had to be a pretty serious bully/thug to attain and maintain DS mastery - or at least the DS wasn't very subtle. And there were really only two paths: full LS or full DS, and a single choice which sent you down those paths near the end. It was very difficult, if not impossible, to play a true "grey" character and finish the game, without compromising the character's integrity at one point or another. In Kotor II, one can actually reach and maintain DS mastery and finish the game without ever killing indiscriminately, acting like a bully, or being a thuggish gangster. Characters will even respond and comment on how subtle or gross your evil is, and either gain or lose influence because of those actions. Quests are not black or white, requiring either a hard DS or LS solution to complete - almost all main quests have more than one solution, that can lead to either LS or DS gain, or both, for each. Of course, one can go through TSL and be a simple gangster thug; or be a dominatrix who takes on slaves; or be a tortured soul obsessed with revenge; or be a general all around monster - and to a much greater extent than in the first Kotor game. One can also choose to pattern their DS path along the lines of a Palpatine, who manipulates everyone for their own gain, uses subtlety to corrupt others, and pretends to be a good guy who really cares; or follow the true Sith code laid out in the first game, of strength over weakness, like a Darth Maul or Malak would have done; or simply go through as a "Clint Eastwood western" kinda anti-hero, who walks their own path and doesn't shy away from killing nor put up with sh*t from anybody, but is at heart a good guy. It's also possible to "pull a Bindo" and play through as a true Grey character, who never leans too far into the light or dark, and still finish the game without compromising your character's integrity. Was TSL perfect in this regard? No. But after having played Kotor, Fable, Fallout I/II, and many other supposed "LS vs. DS" games, I've yet to come across one that allows as much freedom along the DS path as TSL does.

You may trvialize my response if you like... it's no matter. For some the game was marginal, for some it was a waste of time, and for others it exceeded their expectations. And I wouldn't consider 35 as "old"... neither will you when/if you get there.

I appreciated your post, Kalfear. I too come from the old days of crpgs, having spent way too many hours in the Mad Overlord's proving grounds, and then later on scouring the forests with Iolo hacking at zombies. I mean in those days, some of the best crpgs simply used stick or line drawings, and we ran through endless 1st person green stick box mazes with text scrolling across half the screen telling us what was happening. Heck, you needed a 5" floppy drive to even install them. When I think of those days, with the wizardry, ultima, and (*gulp*) king's quest series - and it is with great fondness that I do - I'm truly amazed at how far things have come. I imagine it's different for those who didn't experience that, or didn't get to sit in the theatre as a kid for the original Star Wars film - way before things like the sci-fi channel, or an endless stream of hollywood sci-fi films, or all of the franchise novels, etc. All that we had then was the first film, classic Trek, and a very small sci-fi fantasy shelf at the bookstore. So to me, Kotor I & II are simply outstanding. I loved the first game very much, yet feel that TSL raised the bar and is an overall better game. And though I've read about and personally encountered many of the bugs/glitches, and understand why many feel the that ending wasn't developed enough, for me it's been an immensely enjoyable crpg experience. I've read where some suggest that one shouldn't have to fill in the blanks, and that the game should have a more concrete storyline and ending that ties things up better and makes more sense... and there is merit to those suggestions. Yet for those of us who grew up with crpg and pen-'n-paper games where 60% of the experience was "filling in the blanks" and using your own imagination to enhance the role-playing and make it come to life... well, I for one very much appreciate the way TSL is designed. And from reading all the different takes in the Spoiler and Storyline forums on what the ending and character storylines could possibly mean, and seeing how there are so many varying opinions and points of view being expressed in those threads, I think that the developers succeeded in one area that very few seem to recognize or even acknowledge - which is, allowing for the freedom to not only make a vast array of choices within the game, but for the player to invest their own imagination into it as well. Was it rushed to production? Unquestionably. Yet it's my opinion that not all of the "open-ended" or "unfinished" elements in the game were accidents or caused by a lack of time. Many of them are there for a reason. It's unfortunate that the rushed elements tend to get more attention and cloud that aspect of the game. But is it worth the money? You bet'cha. Edit: From a certain point of view...

Look, I'm not trying to cause a problem here. Your question was about the green robes, and so I answered. In the version of the game I'm playing, the Matukai robes are green, not grey. This is the third playthrough where I've gotten the robes... others have posted on the forums here about the green Matukai robes... and the prima strategy guide shows pictures of the robes as being green as well - and yes, I've actually played with the Matukai robes for awhile now, and am not simply referencing the notably error filled guide. Certainly there is grey in them, but the actual drape of the robe and majority of the front and waistpiece is green. All I can suggest is that either there is a slight color problem with your TV that is causing them to appear grey, or that you have a different version of the game than I do, which is calling up a grey version. Frankly, I wish that they were grey instead of green - very much so. A few years back, I wrote a short story about a half-breed female Twi'lek/Human who was the descendent of a Zeison Sha priestess on her mother's side, and whose parents were killed when she was an infant, and so was raised beyond the outer rim by an order of Matukai monks. So I was totally surprised and excited in my first playthrough of TSL to come across the Zeison Sha armor, and became hopeful that maybe the devs put something Matukai into the game as well. When I first came upon the Matukai robes, I was elated... however, the green color became somewhat difficult for me to deal with after awhile. Certain characters just don't look that good in green, notably those who have blond or red hair; and the Matukai robes are simply a little too feminine and light for a male or darkside character... at least imho. Actually, all of the jedi armors and many of the robes have a distinct feminine feel to them. There's nothing wrong with that, and it works great for female characters, whom I've played several times. However, for male characters I was hoping that the advanced versions of the Zeison Sha armor and the Matukai robes specifically, especially since these are generally considered to be martial disciplines of the force, would be more neutral or masculine. In TSL right now, it's kinda like having ninja and shaolin masters who wear colorful, fashionable outfits... it's just not very practical or realistic. Anyway, if you are seeing grey robes, either be thankful... or turn up the color on your TV.

Actually, my current character has two Matukai Apprentice robes and they are light green. The Mautkai Adept robes are a darker green.

I read somewhere that one has to enter the Enclave Courtyard from the Scavenger Camp side, and that if they enter from the Mandalorian Camp side the game freezes in the Enclave. Try reloading a save game before entering the courtyard, and head over to the entrance by the Scavenger camp.

There is also a second way... there is a Hutt on the planet who has a storage room guarded by Kath Hounds. If you figure out a way to get into the storage room, then a piece can be found in there.

You want to find Lootra and Aaida in the refugee sector, and complete their quest one way or another.

Very nice. Thanks for posting that. The voice work in this game is outstanding, and imho by far the best feature. I particularly enjoyed the closing phrase... It appears that the Lucasarts sound production team is fully expecting to use their formula again someday.

You know, I've been involved in other forum communities based on Lucasarts' games. I can recall when Jedi Academy came out, everyone was upset about bugs on the Raven forums, and they didn't respond to them at all for almost six months. At the time, everyone was saying things like everyone is saying around here too... even stating that the devs just don't care. The truth of the situation however, was that the game developers were very concerned about the bug issues, and did not like seeing their hard work and passion end up the way it did... one developer eventually came on and said that it made him extremely upset to read of all the problems and not be able to respond or do anything about it. And why couldn't they? Specific agreements with Lucasarts prohibited them from doing so. It took them almost six months to be able to just say that. The reason we are not getting a response is because Lucasarts won't let them respond, under penalties and with possible ramifications that could hurt Obsidian as a developer in the industry. They may design games, but partnering and dealing with Lucasarts is not a game. To suggest that the Obsidian development team simply doesn't care or isn't interested is preposterous. These people put their heart and soul into this for over a year, and obviously took great care to make a game both worthy of the franchise, yet cutting edge enough to take some risks. Saying that they don't care about TSL, is like suggesting that they just don't care about Planescape Torment. Nobody likes for their work to go unfinished. If they could fix it, they would. One doesn't put such effort and care into something, only to give up at the last minute. These are perfectionists and professionals, not amateurs or hobbyists. When Obsidian is given authorization to publicly discuss or release a bugfix - if they are ever allowed to - then rest assured that it will be posted on these forums. Not before, and no matter how loudly one screams about it.

Fwiw... next gen Xbox titles under development have a very strict non-disclosure agreement that the developers cannot discuss it whatsoever. Regardless of who the developer is, whether Obsidian or not, if Kotor 3 is being considered as a launch title for the next gen Xbox, then the devs can't even hint at it until they are given the ok. Microsoft is keeping all info regarding the new platform very close to the vest. I would be greatly surprised if Kotor 3 was not developed for the the next gen system, whether as a launch title or not. When a new system comes out, it's the initial game lineup that moves machines out the door at the top dollar price. Kotor 3 is the kind of title that would automatically move a lot of systems, especially for those who wouldn't normally consider buying a new system. If Microsoft and Lucasarts were smart - and they are - they would release a next gen version either at launch or shortly thereafter, and make it exclusive to the new system for at least six months. It's a superb marketing and sales opportunity, that only a fool would ignore. Lucasarts and Microsoft may be many things, but they are not fools. And if it isn't a launch title, then two to three years from now everyone will be devleoping for the new platform anyway. I'd say the chances of us seeing a Kotor 3 for the current Xbox platform are slim to none. Could be wrong, but will be surprised if this is the case. Whether fans liked the decision or not, the vast majority would save up for it anyway, and run right out and buy a new system the week Kotor 3 was released.

Just wanted to add this to the thread for those searching the archives, since I'd not come across specific character information (force power progression, skills per level, etc) in other threads, other than the feat progression and saving throws charts in the main sticky. The following is a walkthrough, so be warned for spoilers... might want to use Find in your browser and then search the Table of Contents for the specific sections, skipping the Characters and Walkthrough parts. Anyway, goto the following page and click on the Walkthrough by D. Simpson, which offers the most detail on character generation that I've come across so far... GameFAQs Kotor II page (see D. Simpson Walkthrough)

I wouldn't be surprised to see it slated as an early release for "Xbox Next" with a new engine designed for the new platform. Kotor III would be a high-profile guaranteed seller, which would push a lot of the new machines out the door. Of course, both Microsoft and LucasArts already know this, and have undoubtedly considered it...

Obsidian. Despite the apparent "problems" with TSL, they added a lot to the gameplay and story plotting, and have a good feel for, and an obvious passion for, SW history and this timeframe. If they continue in the direction already laid - and have an appropriate timeframe to see their ideas to fruition - the next installment could be the best of the three. I think TSL was an improvement on Kotor, overall. Most of the storyline problems and bugs were related to lack of time and resources, not ability or passion. Now they have experience with it, and have witnessed the audience reaction for better or worse... I'd like to see what they can do with all of this.